Launch-Ready Emulators

[matzesu]

i hope Quark 2 is already if i get my Pandora, because i have ordered it in November 2008..

Meybe there is a gba emu everywhere..

 

[Bosbeetle]

ah okay sorry I don't know that game made me laugh though

 

[EvilDragon]

paddy: You ever coded drivers for a completely new hardware, debugged anything that didn't work and wrapped up a whole OS (not just a minimal menu like the PSP has, but a full OS?)
It does take time. Sony probably has A LOT more (fulltime) developers and an easier OS (it didn't even have an internet browser until some time later).
The OS, THAT'S what our devs were supposed to do with their devboards - and what they did.
The rest was just optional, but it's also hard porting stuff to an unfinished OS, as future versions of the OS could break your ports.
That's why the most important thing was getting the OS into a state where upgrades don't break a thing anymore. And that's where we are. Now porting can start

And yeah, really seems the Pandora has a lot more interest than the PSP, cause I also can't remember any emulators for the PSP before it was released (not even the internal PSX-one from Sony).
How many emulators did the gp2x have, before it was released...?

As for PND, do you have a clue about what you're talking? PND is no magical special compiler, if you have a working emulator, it takes about 15 seconds to wrap it up into a PND, using a single script...

 

[matzesu]

@EvilDragon:

How can you Answer Questions in the Forum, when you are on your Way to Korea???

On my way to Korea (Game developers exhibition). The Pandora easily passes through airport security check

nice to hear, the German Airport securitiy has no problem whit a du it youself Linux Gaming Handheld..

 

[Mithrildor]

@EvilDragon:

How can you Answer Questions in the Forum, when you are on your Way to Korea???

On my way to Korea (Game developers exhibition). The Pandora easily passes through airport security check

nice to hear, the German Airport securitiy has no problem whit a du it youself Linux Gaming Handheld..

In the age of smarthphones, netbooks and 3G interwebs everything is possible

 

[philly]

Its interesting that people expect ALL the emulators to be ready at launch... I had a GP2X (one of the first mark II`s to be sent out) and we had no usable amiga no usable snes, I cant remember about megadrive but even c64 was ropey... mame wasn't playing much and i think nes was reasonable.

Going each day and downloading the latest offerings to see what new emu`s were available was what made that community! I don't remember any whingeing (if that's how you spell it).

It was gratefulness, bug reports and suggestions even some donations... but mainly gratefulness!

 

[Mithrildor]

Its not that people expect all emulators at launch, but they expect all emus that worked on gp2x (wiz). This is because most people here dont know much about programming and think its just a min to port an emu from gp2x to wiz and because that the pandora is better it will run fullspeed

 

[Monk]

Its interesting that people expect ALL the emulators to be ready at launch... I had a GP2X (one of the first mark II`s to be sent out) and we had no usable amiga no usable snes, I cant remember about megadrive but even c64 was ropey... mame wasn't playing much and i think nes was reasonable.

Going each day and downloading the latest offerings to see what new emu`s were available was what made that community! I don't remember any whingeing (if that's how you spell it).

It was gratefulness, bug reports and suggestions even some donations... but mainly gratefulness!

I think the reason for the apparent frustration is clear. With the GP2X, people hadn't seen the machine effectively promoted with software that 6, 12, or 18 months later was not in a fit state to download. The problem, I suspect, isn't that the emulators (my fave isn't even mentioned in this thread) aren't ready before the Pandora is released - it's that they aren't ready month and months after they've been "shown working". Combine that with the announcement back in '08 that the Pandora design was done, ready to manufacture, shipped by November or December (08) at latest, and I at least see how people could be puzzled/confused/dissapointed that they won't be able to use the software that possibly convinced them to preorder the device.

This marks a considerable difference from the way the GP2X community evolved. It's all in reverse


PS - I think the software devs concentrating on firmware/OS first is absolutely the right approach. It doesn't stop me seeing how others might be... surprised though.

 

[Wootson]

I get a little irritated by the fact that people are comparing the Pandora to systems which are already out for several years. And even then, the PSP is no real competition in terms of the basic OS. Because the OS of the PSP is just a simple menu-bar with access to a some very basic options and a store, a media player, a shitty web browser, Skype, and a few other things. Trust me, you can't compare such a simple menu with a total Linux-based OS. The Pandora can theoretically run everything that a normal Linux/Angstrom distribution can run.

It's always the same with these twats who complain all day long about EVERYTHING. I have seen every variation of vaporware-comments here on the boards and on several other websites. And now that the Pandora actually is being build, these very same people are starting to complain that there is no software available at launch. Looking at the list I provided at the beginning of this topic, I can only laugh really hard about their statements.

Now they're complaining that SNES and SMS/MD/CD/32X are not ready. And when those are actually ready they start complaing that ScummVM is not ready. When that is ready they start complaining that PS1 is not ready or not fully optimized. And so on...

Seriously, what a bunch of crybabies! Grab your lollipop and GTFO!

 

[MDave]

I get a little irritated by the fact that people are comparing the Pandora to systems which are already out for several years. And even then, the PSP is no real competition in terms of the basic OS. Because the OS of the PSP is just a simple menu-bar with access to a some very basic options and a store, a media player, a shitty web browser, Skype, and a few other things. Trust me, you can't compare such a simple menu with a total Linux-based OS. The Pandora can theoretically run everything that a normal Linux/Angstrom distribution can run.

It's always the same with these twats who complain all day long about EVERYTHING. I have seen every variation of vaporware-comments here on the boards and on several other websites. And now that the Pandora actually is being build, these very same people are starting to complain that there is no software available at launch. Looking at the list I provided at the beginning of this topic, I can only laugh really hard about their statements.

Now they're complaining that SNES and SMS/MD/CD/32X are not ready. And when those are actually ready they start complaing that ScummVM is not ready. When that is ready they start complaining that PS1 is not ready or not fully optimized. And so on...

Seriously, what a bunch of crybabies! Grab your lollipop and GTFO!

Calm down, it was only one guy making the noise.

 

[silver]

It has nothing to do with what is available on "day 1" or what is available on psp vs gp2x vs whatever.

I am just mildly surprised that the emus ran well enough to produce videos with sound demonstrating gameplay, but months later they not even ready for beta public consumption....

It's not like OP have not been using this either - there has been plenty of "hey check out how fast the snes/md/ps1 emus ALREADY are a non-oc pandora" - so I think it was reasonable to assume some kind of emu was already up and running. I'm not after fancy guis/completely bug free etc....

It's not a biggie, and plenty will come to those who wait etc...

 

[philly]

Its interesting that people expect ALL the emulators to be ready at launch... I had a GP2X (one of the first mark II`s to be sent out) and we had no usable amiga no usable snes, I cant remember about megadrive but even c64 was ropey... mame wasn't playing much and i think nes was reasonable.

Going each day and downloading the latest offerings to see what new emu`s were available was what made that community! I don't remember any whingeing (if that's how you spell it).

It was gratefulness, bug reports and suggestions even some donations... but mainly gratefulness!

I think the reason for the apparent frustration is clear. With the GP2X, people hadn't seen the machine effectively promoted with software that 6, 12, or 18 months later was not in a fit state to download. The problem, I suspect, isn't that the emulators (my fave isn't even mentioned in this thread) aren't ready before the Pandora is released - it's that they aren't ready month and months after they've been "shown working". Combine that with the announcement back in '08 that the Pandora design was done, ready to manufacture, shipped by November or December (08) at latest, and I at least see how people could be puzzled/confused/dissapointed that they won't be able to use the software that possibly convinced them to preorder the device.

This marks a considerable difference from the way the GP2X community evolved. It's all in reverse


PS - I think the software devs concentrating on firmware/OS first is absolutely the right approach. It doesn't stop me seeing how others might be... surprised though.

Agreed about the wait for the hardware (who in their right minds would argue) but those rushed ports were a proof of concept to show what it WILL do... it still will some time after launch. The hardware is much improved over what we paid for and the OS is much better than we paid for... My guess is that we are gonna get much better Emulators than those crappy ports.

I do see where people are coming from, but they have always had the option to cancel.
These should be good times... production is immanent!!!

 

[Kangal]

Agreed about the wait for the hardware (who in their right minds would argue) but those rushed ports were a proof of concept to show what it WILL do... it still will some time after launch. The hardware is much improved over what we paid for and the OS is much better than we paid for... My guess is that we are gonna get much better Emulators than those crappy ports.

I do see where people are coming from, but they have always had the option to cancel.
These should be good times... production is immanent!!!

I think all of the emulators should be available today (except N64, PSP, Dreamcast obviously). I think it is only fair.
The amount of members/customers that had kept their purchase with this promise (many posts) is overwhelming, to be frank.
It would be only fair that these versions would be the one's optimized for the Pandora/Beagleboard/N900 but the worlds imperfect and always expect disappointment.
For that reason, the emulators don't necessarily need to be optimized or fully polished. As long as its working at a decent level, get it out there. I feel like the wait has been long, too long, and that we should've been given something more than just a "Thank you". I mean the whole project could've gone down the drain quite easy enough, so what people expected to get should be delivered plus some sort of congratulatory bonus.

To say they had the option to cancel is somewhat to say
"Hey people thanks for waiting too long, for something your not getting as prepared as many have said to be, and not getting a refund. You could've cancelled and lead to project bankruptcy/disasters but instead you were selfless losers"
I know that's not what you wanted to say, but that is an easy interpretation.
It's like a call to promote those people that were not patient enough for the device but instead wanted to see OP succeed that they kept themselves from getting a refund by logging on to the boards many times a week.
I would watch my words if I were you :angry: (you could wake up the trolls or start a fire)

 

[Esslan]

Are you demanding emulators from Open Pandora? They arent the ones making the emulators you know.

Fair?
to bad you think its unfair that they arent done, but just because you want them to be done now doesnt mean the devs can snap their fingers and make them done.
I'm sure the they will release alpha/beta versions of emulators when they think they can expect people to play them and post bug reports, etc.

Also, you do know that all the devs(that made emus for the gp2x) dont have pandora prototypes, right?

 

[Trip]

@EvilDragon:

How can you Answer Questions in the Forum, when you are on your Way to Korea???

On my way to Korea (Game developers exhibition). The Pandora easily passes through airport security check

nice to hear, the German Airport securitiy has no problem whit a du it youself Linux Gaming Handheld..

In the age of smarthphones, netbooks and 3G interwebs everything is possible

Airport Wifi (or phone tethering) + Pandora handheld FTW


I find it hard to believe that people are complaining that most of the emulators wont be available the second that the Pandora is in their hands. You pre-ordered from the first batch and were told that the software would probably not be spot on or all available from the get go, so what's the problem?
You know that the emulators will arrive soon after the hardware is shipped, you've already seen them running on the actual hardware and there will be plenty of other things to do with the Pandora to keep you busy in the mean time.

Chillax B)

 

[WizardStan]

I find it hard to believe that people are complaining that most of the emulators wont be available the second that the Pandora is in their hands. You pre-ordered from the first batch and were told that the software would probably not be spot on or all available from the get go, so what's the problem?

The "problem" is that people see that it's taken 18 months longer than anticipated, and think that means an extra 18 months to work on stuff.
The problem with that logic is that the people who intend to put things on the Pandora don't have their Pandora either! Only a small selection of developers have had dev units, and they've mostly (with noted exceptions) been working on firmware. The people writing emulators don't have a proper Pandora to test on either, so it's quite unfair to expect them to have anything finished.

 

[PokeParadox]

ha ,that list is rubbish in my opinion and even if it had most emus avail at launch i would still say the same but this is all becase i have a psp with all that stuff and more already ,i am most looking forward to using the OS more than the emulators and amiga will be very nice but really holding out for n64 and dev games.

Actuly for the development taking soooo long as in nearly 2 years and devs having boards for over a year i find it pretty lame that not all emulators have been ported over ages ago ,just goes to show how much real interest the pandora has ,and what is the deal with snes and megadrive emulators ,they were shown ages ago and stated running over fullspeed yet picodrive will not be out any time soon as notas wants the 32x emulation finished ,well actuly thats fine by me and i can fully understand this but what about snes ? it was said to be fullspeed but when i watched the vids it simply wasn't. (ps ,sorry if i have got this wrong with the amount of time devs have had the dev kits)


Question = can't we just run quick ports via the os instead of pnd's ? i would love zsnes if possible but i don't think it is possible ,ohh and sega fusion.

Emm ,where is the atari jaguar emulator atari lynx & pcengine ? also scumm vm ? is this going to be the trend with pandora that we don't get emus untill they are 100% perfect ,not like it used to be ,i was kinda looking forward to bug reports and actuly helping with the emulators as much as possible ,ohh mabe those emulators that have been held off will be for the store at a price ,if thats the case my pandora will be on ebay shortly after.

One last thing ,i am happy to wait for emus but the points i have raised are simply my thoughts on why it is taking so long to do a basic port ,and how i will be quite sickened by the thought OPT and the authors might possibly want to make money from possible emulators.A good for instance would be the original xbox emulator set all ported over by one man and he done an amazing job ,i think nearly all the emulators were ported by the one guy including well just about everything apart from n64 as that was done by someone else, so atari lynx ,c64 ,dosbox, amiga psx snes megadrive/segacd 32x and the list goes on and on ,it can't be that difficult ,i am no dev that is for sure but in fact if the store starts selling the more popular emus it will make me learn and port them my self free of charge.

It's really simple.
Those emulator demonstrations were made to show quickly what's possible.
Dev boards went out to key devs to develop the PandoraOS and drivers.
The OS has been changing constantly and only quite recently has reached a stage where general devs can write code without too much fear that something is going to change again.

To elaborate on this last point, I do not have any hardware to test Pandora software on, it is only through Pickle and ED I have been able to get feedback and fix problems on PandoraPanic! From personal experiences I can tell you the OS has definitely changed... one key problem has been key-mappings and the physical layout of those buttons. In addition to layout the way to access the Pandora gaming buttons has changed a few times.
For this reason you should see it's not straightforward to have all the "main" emulators ready on day one and that it makes a lot of sense that work is focussed on the OS so that us general devs can more easily bring you software once Pandora is out the door.

There is plenty of fun things you'll be able to do with the Pandora as you unbox it.... and if you can't find nothing to then I guess it sucks to be you, you'll just have to wait a relatively short time when more emulators and such get perfected.

 

[Wootson]

Even if everything from the GP32/GP2X/Wiz/Dingoo era was ready, they would still ask for a fully optimized Dreamcast or PlayStation 2 emulator.

Nothing was promised. You are making it all up. Show me proof of an OpenPandora software engineer saying that application/game/whatever is promised, and you have a point. All the stuff that is coming is just a bonus. If EvilDragon makes a video of a work-in-progress with a game running at 30+ FPS, that doesn't mean that all other games are running the same way. And if I made a SNES emulator for the Pandora then I would certainly wait until Starwing was running at 30+ FPS and shove it in the Internet's face. That's a way of making the system more attractive to the public, instead of making it a standard Chinese clone console with a keyboard slapped on top.

Some developers just want to wait until they've added some extra stuff. And it's their right to do so. Some people just don't like to port their software to some other platform and then lean back in their chair. If someone wants to put a cherry on top for you, don't ruin their day. It might very well be so that they won't even publish their work because of your behavior.

And if ZodTTD says something about a PS1 emulator in the works, don't blame OpenPandora for it to not have arrived yet. This guy has more stuff to do than only porting emulators for the Pandora.

And don't wait and complain afterwards. You've had your chance at any given day of the last 18+ months to grab your money and buy something else. Even when the Pandora's out for a year there will not be enough software for people, the console has commercially failed in every way, it was a vaporware console with it's head just above the water, blablabla.

Seriously, this is the last comment I'm ever going to make about this, because the subject is just utterly crap and full of troll bait.

 

[Jumpman]

Are members here high on drugs(Don't answer that)? It always amazes me what will push buttons around here. Truly astonishing to say the least.

First off, team Pandora is not responsible for a single emulator, PERIOD! If any are never released, that is not there problem. This is a open source device, and as such, it is up to the community to supply it's own programs. I have never once stopped to think why a video from a year ago, hasn't been updated, or why an emu is still in a unfinished state.

Why would a programmer spend time optimizing an emu for a console that may not have ever seen the light of day? Let's just say they had 12 months ago, who would have tested it? 6-10 people who are are busy with other things, and how many changes would have been made with each new system OS change?

Come on people let's use our brains. No one would do that, myself included. I would imagine most guys have day jobs, families, and other things to do then spend time making a program for something that until the last few days was still very much a pipe dream. Why would Zod work on a Pandora PSX emu, when he could work on one for the iphone/itouch, and actually have thousands use, test, and enjoy it today.

Please save these kinds of complaints for a few weeks, and months into the Pandora life cycle. I still wouldn't put much time and effort in until more than 1000 units are out in the wild. That is just common sense, which is very rarly ever common!

Chris

 

[Monk]

Seriously, this is the last comment I'm ever going to make about this, because the subject is just utterly crap and full of troll bait.

On both (?) sides IMHO. There's no reason for daggers at dawn. Is it or is it not surprising that programs shown seemingly working well 6, 12, 18 months ago are not ready for even beta release? Yes. Is it understandable once you find out some of the background details, like the folks that did the ports have been busy making the Pandora itself work rather than the applications? Yes. End of. What makes these threads go on and on is the constant pointless backbiting.