Keyboard Layout And Durability

[cosurgi]

Hi,

Remember the OLPC keyboard problems? After a year the keyboards started malfunctioning, and some keys became impossible to press, others got stuck. Can I buy extra years of warranty for the keyboard <_< ? Old HP calculators had the best small sized keyboard I've ever meet, look for example at HP48G calculator. What will be the durability of this keboard? Will be there any (even very weak) "click" upon pressing keys? HP48G calcs had very nicely balanced click-feel when pressing keys.

Using GIMP perspective (un)stretch I was able to reproduce keyboard look from those pictures: older render , newer one. So we can have a clear look at the keyboard:

QWERTY is of course OK, and very good. I'm concerned about all the extra symbols. It's certainly not the layout that I'd like to use. Why waste 'H' , 'J' , 'I' and 'O' keys for "o", "a", "u" with two dots above and german "S" letter? Those are letters very special to few particular languages, my guess is, that a person of german nationality was the designer here.

Keep in mind that Pandora is not only for german people, and they will have very little use of such keys. It's obvious that I will define a custom keyboard mapping, with different layout, the problem is that I'll have to put stickers on the keys, and they will rub off.

Is there a thread about keyboard layout design somewhere in developer threads? Was this topic discussed before? (my searches yielded nothing)

Most importantly: is it too late now to chage what symbols are PRINTED on the keys? If not - I'd like to start some discussion about what is the best Fn symbol layout on the keyboard. My suggestion is to start from the most popular - US - keyboard, and map the symbols which are there (disclaimer: I'm not living in US). Unless you are planning to release different Pandoras with different keyboards on it (and we all know that it's rather impossible, due to all limitations). So it's best to decide on a keyboard layout good for biggest percentage of customers.

If there is some positive response on this topic (eg. that changes are still possible) I will sit down and think about an US-like layout, that perhaps will satisfy most people, and post here a picture of it.

Last note - all those Fn symbols should be bigger - they are even barely readable even on those pictures I posted above!

UPDATE: download a SCALE 1:1 Pandora model for keyboard testing!

 

[TaG]

It seems obvious to me we must stop production of the Pandora and re-design the keyboard. I have just spotted the huge glaring error in its design - it doesn't have a huge SEARCH button smack in the middle. Entering your first two words of the thread title, +keyboard +layout, into search yields several threads where he topic has been raised.

What will be the durability of this keboard?
Very poor. The developers have gone to great lengths to ensure they last between 366 and 367 days to maximise future revenues. As none of us have an actual Pandora with keyboard we can neither confirm or deny these rumours. And if it were poor, which I'm sure it's not, the developers wouldn't publicise it, would they?
QUOTE
Most importantly: is it too late now to chage what symbols are PRINTED on the keys?
Of course not. They will allow hardware changes up to 18 minutes before despatch. Alternatively, try this thread.

Sorry for my tongue in cheek response, but I have been gentler than many would (will) be.

 

[cosurgi]

yeah, I see, sorry. I was hoping that printing symbols on the keys could still be changed, Silly me

At least a simple question - will it be possible to map, for example:
1. Fn+P as BACKSPACE ?
2. Fn+DEL as INSERT ?
3. Fn+MENU as whatever ?

So I will have to live with custom stickers glued to the keys Anybody has some suggestions how to DIY in the best way?

 

[Mutilator]

well think the keyboard will be trying to be the best layout for all countries but prob be UK layout which is good for us brits

as for the durability im sure the pandora team will make sure the console wont have any major problems and if their are then im sure they will be rectified before the release

 

[greendots]

Yes, you will be able to map anything you want to the keys / key combos.

Im sure a while after launch some one will mod it and put a how-to.

 

[Pickle]

yeah, I see, sorry. I was hoping that printing symbols on the keys could still be changed, Silly me

At least a simple question - will it be possible to map, for example:
1. Fn+P as BACKSPACE ?
2. Fn+DEL as INSERT ?
3. Fn+MENU as whatever ?

So I will have to live with custom stickers glued to the keys Anybody has some suggestions how to DIY in the best way?

Im pretty sure this was brought up before, i believe the answer was that linux supports remapping of the keys.

Oh and just use a knife to scratch in a new label

 

[gaterooze]

Those are letters very special to few particular languages, my guess is, that a person of german nationality was the designer here.

Yes, EvilDragon who did those renders is German.

I think this is a reasonable post - I remember reading a while back that the keyboard layout wasn't finalized, but has it now? If not, yeah, some tweaking of the Fn assignments wouldn't go astray.

 

[chad78]

What gets me is that there is at least room for 2 - if not 4 more keys on the top row that is just wasted space. A dedicated ESC and Tab key would be my first choice - and if 4, @ and /.... Or let the shift key work with the orphaned number row....

But, all this is academic because it's too late to change anything now.

 

[gaterooze]

What gets me is that there is at least room for 2 - if not 4 more keys on the top row that is just wasted space. A dedicated ESC and Tab key would be my first choice - and if 4, @ and /.... Or let the shift key work with the orphaned number row....

I think that is due to where your thumbs will lie while using the Dpad/buttons.

 

[atomicthumbs]

I think that a biger problem would be the fact that the analog pads will prevent the lid from closing, and possibly mar the screen with skin oils.

 

[SOLGarion]

I think that a biger problem would be the fact that the analog pads will prevent the lid from closing, and possibly mar the screen with skin oils.

I think that the analog pads may seem a bit taller than they are due to the use of GIMP perspective on the renders. There is also a new nub anyway that may look slightly different.

I believe I remember reading that the area surrounding the nub where it moves will no longer be metal but it will have the 2 mm travel and be non-clicking.

I am sure at least a little thought went into making sure the lid would close and maybe even having a bit of clearance between nubs and screen in case someone gets eaten by Bowser and snaps the case shut real fast and hard.

 

[chad78]

in case someone gets eaten by Bowser and snaps the case shut real fast and hard.
*pssh!* Bowser has never eaten *anyone*! All he does is kidnap the Princess, spit fire, throw hammers, bombs, and mechanical copies of himself, and stomp around. But he doesn't *EAT* people....

.... </attempt at humor - with truth!>

 

[AireTamStorm]

What gets me is that there is at least room for 2 - if not 4 more keys on the top row that is just wasted space.

On the plastic yes, but perhaps not on the mainboard.

 

[Chip]

I spent the last three hours laying out the best possible keypad labeling scheme. We've had a lot of complaints about lack of non-english characters on the keypad, and considering that (on the renders at least) there is plenty of room for additional characters, I figured I'd take a crack at fixing it. Key positions are kept as close to original as possible. Alternate characters are laid out on each key in relation to the position of their activator key on the Pandora: Bottom right for FN, Bottom left for shift, Top right for right trigger, top left for left trigger.

The first layout only uses the shift and FN keys as alternate character keys. It has just about everything vital (I think) from the standard international keyboard. It should cover English, German, and Spanish:



The next one uses the right and left triggers for even more alternate character goodness. It has the full Cyrillic alphabet, plus a handful of additional characters from the French and Turkish keyboards. Ideally FN+right trigger would act as a "Cyrillic lock" so users of that alphabet wouldn't have to hold the right trigger the whole time. I don't speak or read Russian, so the Cyrillic layout may not be perfect. I tried to keep it as close as possible to the Russian keyboard.:


There are still nine regular keys and 8 number keys open for additional characters if necessary.

 

[gaterooze]

Nice work. I'd say that's almost there (is that a tilda at Fn4?). X button can be used for ESC.

 

[CoMiKe]

Fantastic layout, Chip!

I do like a lot to see the Ctrl and Alt keys on the keyboard.

Also, I think it's a grat idea to use the L/R triggers for more character combinations, instead of using them to replace the Ctrl key.

And it's also a clever idea the Fn+Trigger as a lock for different alphabets.

I hope that ideas get integrated on the final keyboard design and firmware.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

A dedicated ESC and Tab key would be my first choice - and if 4, @ and /.... Or let the shift key work with the orphaned number row....

Escape? How about backspace? Despite mapping abilities, I still don't understand why it wasn't included. :rolleyes:

 

[WizardStan]

A dedicated ESC and Tab key would be my first choice - and if 4, @ and /.... Or let the shift key work with the orphaned number row....

Escape? How about backspace? Despite mapping abilities, I still don't understand why it wasn't included. :rolleyes:

left on the gamepad? B and/or X on the game buttons? It should be a rare enough key to use that it can afford to be a little out of the way.

 

[chad78]

I spent the last three hours laying out the best possible keypad labeling scheme
People wonder why I don't like you. You just showed why. You think in a couple of hours you can come out with "The best possible keypad labeling scheme." Who voted on that? Where is your award for that design feat?

Your design is *not* the best. I mean, you bury some of the most often used characters in any language - like the Question mark. ? - The FN of the C key? Seriously. That's the "Best possible" place for the ?. Why wouldn't it be closer to where it actually goes on a keyboard - like the M key?

I'm not saying your design is bad - it might be the best one we've seen for the Pandora. But what pisses me off is your arogance of saying it's "The best possible keypad labeling scheme." You really think you are qualified - not just to make that judgment (which you're not) - but to come up with it in just a few hours. Do you have any idea how much R & D companies put into keyboard layouts?

 

[Chip]

A dedicated ESC and Tab key would be my first choice - and if 4, @ and /.... Or let the shift key work with the orphaned number row....

Escape? How about backspace? Despite mapping abilities, I still don't understand why it wasn't included. :rolleyes:


Escape! I knew I was forgetting something. Fixed both images.

And that left-facing arrow on the top right is the universal symbol for backspace.