Is Ron Paul A Visionary Or A Nut Job?

[daclassicgamingmaster]

I, too, believe there is a higher force. I don't think it's a cloud man, though.

Just wanted to get that out there.

Higher force? Like the nuclear forces gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction?

Or you mean you don't like the "established" God(s) because it sounds too silly, so you made up your own? I hate to say it but that is even nuttier than believing the established religions. I mean none of those are good so only you know what the "real" supernatural force is about? No one else has cought on to it and made a real organized religion from it until you discovered that there was this force

Don't be silly. Believing in a higher force isn't nuttier than established religions at all. I just think there is something else that exists.

You know dave, sometimes I wonder with you. I'm sure you're the same type of person that thinks we're the only life in the universe :rolleyes:

By the way, the word is "caught"

 

[DaveC]

Don't be silly. Believing in a higher force isn't nuttier than established religions at all. I just think there is something else that exists.

You know dave, sometimes I wonder with you. I'm sure you're the same type of person that thinks we're the only life in the universe :rolleyes:

By the way, the word is "caught"

It is kind nutty if you have no proof or evidence of this "force" or what it is. Just making something up out of whole cloth is kind of nutty. But have fun.

I don't think we are the only life in the universe. I don't know either way for sure but law of averages would indicate something may have sprouted up somewhere.

Ok you win the debate, you "caught" a typo of mine

 

[fawny]

If you don't believe what I said, then you can go look it up. It's scientific fact that carbon 14 can't read prehistorical dates, because the half-life of carbon 14 is too short. And if a different dating method shows something as millions of years old, but it still has carbon 14 in it, then it obviously can't be millions of years old. And there are cases on record about what I mentioned with volcanic activity.

Of course you can look it up. The web is dripping with theistic distortions trying to counter facts that threaten their bank accounts. You can also go to a page where the focus is science and read how it actually works.

You don't need an IQ of more than 100 to see that molten rock being forced through the earth's crust might, just possiby, get later formations mixed into it. Unless you are so desperate to protect your viewpoint, how could anyone not see that it would be vitually inevitable ? They really are grasping at straws with these counter arguments.

Anyways, the entire point was that not believing in evolution doesn't make you just plain incompetent. Huckabee was governor of Arkansas for 10 years. In that time, he kept the government secular......

Your statement about Huckabee keeping the the state secular is false. He may not have achieved a theocracy yet but he has made inroads. In the Child Welfare Agency Licensing Act in 1997 there is a special provision to allow for the indoctrination of the children in their care, the right to make decisions about the child's welfare based on religious conviction and, strangely , it also explicitly allows the carers to administer corporal discipline.

Yes - it reads "nothing in this act shall be construed to permit the Board to promulgate or enforce any rule that has the effect of: ..... (E) prohibiting the use of corporal discipline.".

Notice how a glance at the wording could leave you thinking it prohibits corporal punishment, but the double negative is saying the act can not be used to back the making of a policy that prohibits its use.

Huckabee advocates the indoctrination and beating of children.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

Don't be silly. Believing in a higher force isn't nuttier than established religions at all. I just think there is something else that exists.

You know dave, sometimes I wonder with you. I'm sure you're the same type of person that thinks we're the only life in the universe :rolleyes:

By the way, the word is "caught"

It is kind nutty if you have no proof or evidence of this "force" or what it is. Just making something up out of whole cloth is kind of nutty. But have fun.

I don't think we are the only life in the universe. I don't know either way for sure but law of averages would indicate something may have sprouted up somewhere.

Ok you win the debate, you "caught" a typo of mine

You don't need proof to "feel" a certain way. I don't tell other people how I feel, unless they ask. No one is "making up" anything. If someone says that they think there might be a creature that exists that we call Bigfoot, is that "making up" a story? No, they just feel that there may be a possibility of something else that the human race has yet to discover or clearly see.

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Don't be as narrow-minded as the religious nutcases you dislike so much.

 

[fawny]

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Everything ? Thor ? Zeus ? Pandora ? Jesus ? Dragons ? Fairies ? Unicorns ? Lizard people controlling the world ? Even you must draw the line somewhere. Why does this god fall inside the boundry ?

 

[LHC]

There's nothing wrong with believing in 'something'. You can't really complain when somebody questions your logic though, if there isn't any evidence.

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Don't be as narrow-minded as the religious nutcases you dislike so much.

The thing is you can't "disprove" a belief, because there isn't a thing to "disprove". The burden of proof is on the believer.

 

[Yrx]

You don't need proof to "feel" a certain way. I don't tell other people how I feel, unless they ask. No one is "making up" anything. If someone says that they think there might be a creature that exists that we call Bigfoot, is that "making up" a story? No, they just feel that there may be a possibility of something else that the human race has yet to discover or clearly see.

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Don't be as narrow-minded as the religious nutcases you dislike so much.


Thank you, sir! A lot of people hold a huge double standard in this regard, and that more than anything is what annoys me.

And like I said before, if you don't believe me, then show me I'm wrong. Radiometric dating was mentioned, and that's exactly what I was talking about with contradictory results. There are cases of objects dated incorrectly, the one in specific I was talking about involved recent volcanic rock dated with potassium-argon as millions of years old.

Also, I will say AGAIN: I am not putting forth creationist ideas, am I? I'mpointing out problems with old-earth theories that NEED to be discussed, instead of thrown out the window. I don't think that's asking for too much.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Everything ? Thor ? Zeus ? Pandora ? Jesus ? Dragons ? Fairies ? Unicorns ? Lizard people controlling the world ? Even you must draw the line somewhere. Why does this god fall inside the boundry ?

Yes, everything.

 

[DaveC]

You don't need proof to "feel" a certain way. I don't tell other people how I feel, unless they ask. No one is "making up" anything. If someone says that they think there might be a creature that exists that we call Bigfoot, is that "making up" a story? No, they just feel that there may be a possibility of something else that the human race has yet to discover or clearly see.

While we will never know if there is really a "God" per se, I like to keep an open mind about everything, until DISPROVEN.

Is that more clear? Or am I still a nut?

Don't be as narrow-minded as the religious nutcases you dislike so much.


You can feel any way you want. If someone just believes something with no reason, yes it is kind of silly. Sure you welcome to do it, but that doesn't make it logical.

Saying that unless you can "disprove" something that makes it possible to exist is a negative argument. Again irrational. I can tell you that you can't disprove the existance Leprechauns so that means they might exist.

It is not a matter of being "narrow minded". It is a matter of wanting at least a shred of evidence for something before believing it. If that (credible/testable) evidence for anything were to show, I would change my mind accordingly.

It is easy to argue in favor of something fake. Because with fake you can just make it up as you go. Leprechaun example: "they don't exist because you can't see them" My response could be " That is because they are magic and dissappear as soon as you try to look at them". Now prove the existance of leprechauns wrong. You can't.

the one in specific I was talking about involved recent volcanic rock dated with potassium-argon as millions of years old.

Um where do you think that material that comes out of the volcano came from? Did all of it just "wink in" to existance before it popped out of the volcano? I would say no, rock bits that are carried/caught in it were in the earth... for millions of years.

 

[LHC]

I believe you are all homosexuals until you prove me wrong conclusively... show me proof that you are not having sex with the same gender 100% of the time.

Oh, you can't? Must be true.

 

[nickspoon]

I believe you are all homosexuals until you prove me wrong conclusively... show me proof that you are not having sex with the same gender 100% of the time.

Oh, you can't? Must be true.

Aww, damnit, you found out.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

You can feel any way you want. If someone just believes something with no reason, yes it is kind of silly. Sure you welcome to do it, but that doesn't make it logical.

So I guess you're as nutty and illogical as everyone else. You think we're not the only life in the universe? I don't recall that being proven at all.

I guess we should all be shipped off to the loony bin with brit spears and that lady who killed all her kids

 

[Yrx]

I would agree with the notion we're all idiots.

QUOTE
Oh man! Guys! I just realized! I'm retarded!


I meant to continue on with what obvious fact I had just realized, but I didn't get any further for obvious reasons. :lol:

 

[LHC]

You can feel any way you want. If someone just believes something with no reason, yes it is kind of silly. Sure you welcome to do it, but that doesn't make it logical.

So I guess you're as nutty and illogical as everyone else. You think we're not the only life in the universe? I don't recall that being proven at all.

I guess we should all be shipped off to the loony bin with brit spears and that lady who killed all her kids

You're right it's probably not rational, but it isn't the same. The extraterrestrial life that DaveC speaks of is of natural orgin, not supernatural. The cause for its existence is the same as ours (the big bang, to the best of our knowledge). There is a major difference here.

We know we exist in the universe (and we think we have a decent scientific explanation of how), so we know that life can form in the universe given certain conditions. The problem is we don't know the probability of such an event occurring (and i expect we will never know).

 

[nickspoon]

So I guess you're as nutty and illogical as everyone else. You think we're not the only life in the universe? I don't recall that being proven at all.

We happened, and the universe is big. It looks quite likely that other life-forms on another planet happened, too. The differences between that and believing in a God are a) it's based on evidence - Earth-like planets have already been discovered and that the Universe is unimaginably gigantic is well-known - and B) it is in no way presented as fact. It is merely a notion, something which seems quite likely but which will not be determined for a long while - possibly for ever.

Plus, if we do find extraterrestrial life, that would be pretty convincing evidence, whereas the only evidence it seems we'll ever have for a divine being are some old books and the feeling of a 'presence' which Blah has, although that's probably paranoia. If I told you that an invisible, all-powerful being who can see everything I do and knows everything I will ever do was talking to me in my head, you'd assume I was barmy, or at least I'd hope so.

 

[Yrx]

The only difference between natural and supernatural is the ability to consistantly observe one. Scientists didn't believe in giant squid for quite some time. :lol:

By the way, I've made up my mind that although Ron Paul has some great ideas, he's definitely insane, and therefore, probably the wrong person to implement them.

 

[LHC]

I would just like to point out that the universe is a total head fuck.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

I would just like to point out that the universe is a total head fuck.

I would concur, shit is trippy.

Ok, so I admit that I'm not quite educated enough to argue the possibility of a God or something else. I concede from the argument...

but before I go, I feel it necessary to correct nick's "forever" as one word, not two :unsure:


Well I think most of us agree that the next president shouldn't be a jesus freak.

 

[Yrx]

Well I think most of us agree that the next president shouldn't be a jesus freak.

Listen to the guy talk. He's definitely not a Pat Robertson.

 

[DaveC]

You can feel any way you want. If someone just believes something with no reason, yes it is kind of silly. Sure you welcome to do it, but that doesn't make it logical.

So I guess you're as nutty and illogical as everyone else. You think we're not the only life in the universe? I don't recall that being proven at all.

I never said there was. I never said that I *believe* there is life elsewhere in the universe. I said I think it is *possible * that something sprouted up somewhere. That is different than running around telling everyone that there is life on other planets for certain.

One thing that is scientific is that life on other planets is very rare. There are many conditions that have to be met to sustain life and most planets don't meet that criteria. A planet that would support life needs to be pretty stable for a very long period of time too. Big climate change is a big enemy of life because it can't evolve fast enough. Even on earth, which is pretty stable, there were a few big extinction level events, one of which wiped out 96% of all marine life and 70% of land life. If the earth was just slightly different in makeup it would be sterile here too. We were very close to being just another dead rock in space. That is why global warming caused by humans is so dangerous. If we tip the planet over the edge of what it could naturally handle we are talking a catastrophe of enormous proportions. It could litterally be the end of the world, unless you are a microbe.

The only difference between natural and supernatural is the ability to consistantly observe one. Scientists didn't believe in giant squid for quite some time. :lol:

I don't think you have quite a knowledge of what science is. Scientists don't "believe" in something. Science is not based on "belief". Scientists may make a hypothesis or theory about something. This is based on the interpretation of some evidence. After they hypothesize about something they will test the hypothesis intensively to see if it holds up. If it doesn't hold up the hypothesis will be abandoned. By the way evolution is one thing that has been tested ferociously for many years. It has passed every test. It is basically fact. This is unlike religion where they will purposely look for things that support their belief and ignore things that go against it. Religion is really the polar opposite of science. Religion does not advance, nothing new ever comes out of it. Does religion help advance medical technology? Does it help in the designing of electronics? does in aid in the understanding of machines?, the atom? subatomic particles? the planet? the environment? No. nothing. Big fat zero. This is one reason it has no place in the government where real things have to be done.

For your squid theory of course a scientist wouldn't just "believe" in a giant squid out of the blue anymore than they would "believe" in a pig that can fly. There would have to be some kind of evidence. If/when the evidence was discovered then science would recognize it as fact.

As far as Huckabee he has very little chance on being president. Dream on. The neocons that have taken over the Republican party won't allow it. They won't allow Ron Paul either. I have to admit Paul calls out these neocon thugs on the crimes that they have committed. What they want is Guiliani. He is the perfect war mongering neocon that the military industrial complex would love. Killing is their business and business is good.