Is It Me Or Is The Wiz Doomed

[psblake]

While I think the Wiz is a fantastic device, I must admit to some degree of disappointment in the device. For instance, it's not too much of a hassle to re-encode my xvid videos to play on the Wiz, but it would certainly be nice if I didn't have to. I'd also point out that the Dingoo doesn't suffer from this problem.

And while most SNES games run smoothly, not being able to run Super Mario RPG is a big downer. Honestly, if someone could get that one game running at full speed with no glitches, I would consider everything else that the Wiz does to be icing on the cake.

 

[quartercast]

The Wiz has decent battery life as well, I thought they were pretty close there.

Well I remember A600's dingoo hit 9h+ when overclocked to 433 MHz

 

[migo]

?

i seem to hear more complaints about the dingoo's controls than the wiz's. people don't seem to mind the dpad-esque thing that much.

I haven't heard anyone complain about the Dingoo controls, and I remember there being a huge shitstorm over the Wiz controls.

 

[DurTahar]

So many cell phones have touch screens though, especially smartphones which are becoming more popular. Even blackberries that don't have touchscreens are perfectly suited to ScummVM due to the trackball and keyboard (although admittedly it hasn't been ported to BB). In all likelihood people already have a phone, so getting a device that's capable of running the same type of games is a bit redundant. On the other hand people don't have phones with good physical controls, which the Dingoo A320 does have.

I don't really understand this argument here. I'd rather have a Wiz and a cheaper, more simple cell phone than try to play scummvm games on a smartphone. Most people already have a phone, yes, but I wouldn't say most people have a smartphone (at least not just yet). Which means you're expecting them to buy a new phone over the Wiz, with the purpose of playing games on it. Isn't this the opposite of what you were saying? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to keep their regular phone for making calls and get a Wiz for playing games, with the added benefit of (what I consider to be) pretty decent controls?

 

[migo]

I'm seeing less people with dumbphones and more people with smartphones these days. Lots of smartphones come free with a contract, and since people will have the contract anyway they'll be happy to do that. iPhone's already at 30 million users and is climbing fast. BlackBerry has good marketshare. Android is growing. Compare the cost of getting a Wiz to the difference in cost of getting a smartphone over a dumbphone on contract (sometimes no difference) and you've got a pretty tough case suggesting people would rather go for a dumbphone and a Wiz over a Smartphone and an A320.

 

[craigix]

I though it was not going well sales wise, certainly nothing in comparison to the GP2X, but apparently all the sales are going via thinkgeek.

I'm not sure then why the forums are so quiet, maybe it has actually reached the point were people are happy with the emulation and the Wiz delivers exactly what people expect. Maybe that is the result, quiet users?

Let's wait for this (IE only?!) app store...

 

[Exophase]

I'm seeing less people with dumbphones and more people with smartphones these days. Lots of smartphones come free with a contract, and since people will have the contract anyway they'll be happy to do that. iPhone's already at 30 million users and is climbing fast. BlackBerry has good marketshare. Android is growing. Compare the cost of getting a Wiz to the difference in cost of getting a smartphone over a dumbphone on contract (sometimes no difference) and you've got a pretty tough case suggesting people would rather go for a dumbphone and a Wiz over a Smartphone and an A320.

A lot of people prefer unification and don't want to play some of their games on a phone and other games on a gaming handheld. Some games also benefit from having both gaming controls and a touchscreen.

High end phones like iPhone do have a higher base cost with a contract than "dumb" phones, by far. More significantly, they require higher end plans. There's no way you're going to convince me that buying an iPhone contract at $70/month over two years + whatever it is up front (I don't remember exactly, is it $300? More?) is no extra cost over getting a $30/month contract (no data) over 2 years with a $50-$70 or so phone. This suits my needs just fine, and I'd prefer to have a phone with buttons anyway. This doesn't seem like a very tough decision at all, and not just for me but for all sorts of people. The retro gamer audience that these handhelds attract is not necessarily going to intersect perfectly with the highend phone audience that needs mobile internet.

 

[Electric Moose]

I though it was not going well sales wise, certainly nothing in comparison to the GP2X, but apparently all the sales are going via thinkgeek.

Has there been any hard data concerning the actual sales? I wish they'd do well so that there'd be a steady flow of firmware updates and possible future products of the same kind.

 

[migo]

A lot of people prefer unification and don't want to play some of their games on a phone and other games on a gaming handheld.

I suppose you've done polls, 'cause I've seen the opposite that most people would rather play what they can get on their phone and not have to get a gaming handheld.

Some games also benefit from having both gaming controls and a touchscreen.

Which ones?

High end phones like iPhone do have a higher base cost with a contract than "dumb" phones, by far.

You can get flagship smartphones for $0 on contract with some carriers, and locally you can get an iPhone 3G for $50 on contract, so, no. Depends specifically what your carriers are, but a lot of people are getting an iPhone over an iPod Touch because it's cheaper for them.

More significantly, they require higher end plans.

There are ways around this, which plenty of people take advantage of. Other people are perfectly happy with these plans as they pay that much anyway.

There's no way you're going to convince me that buying an iPhone contract at $70/month over two years + whatever it is up front (I don't remember exactly, is it $300? More?) is no extra cost over getting a $30/month contract (no data) over 2 years with a $50-$70 or so phone.

Sure, I couldn't convince you of that, but that's not the reality of the situation in a lot of places.

This suits my needs just fine, and I'd prefer to have a phone with buttons anyway. This doesn't seem like a very tough decision at all, and not just for me but for all sorts of people. The retro gamer audience that these handhelds attract is not necessarily going to intersect perfectly with the highend phone audience that needs mobile internet.

I'd think it intersects more than you think. I know plenty of people who like retro games who are waiting to get a phone that can play them and has decent controls rather than buying a dedicated gaming handset.

I'd also disagree that it's more desirable to have all the games on one device. Some games are better on different devices. Even though a PS2 can play Unreal Tournament it makes no sense to play it on anything other than a PC. Even though an SNES controller technically has the button for SF2, it's better to play on a Saturn controller, and as far as retro games go, the type of games that would benefit from a touchscreen also benefit from having a keyboard, which the Wiz doesn't have anyway.

 

[DurTahar]

I suppose you've done polls, 'cause I've seen the opposite that most people would rather play what they can get on their phone and not have to get a gaming handheld.

I suppose you've done polls?

Oh and I'm pretty sure that no matter how cheap you get the phone itself, you're going to be paying a lot more for a smartphone--most of them require monthly data plans, and if not they sort of require them anyway for them to be worth buying.

I'm also not sure how you're arguing that playing ANY retro game on a phone is better than playing it with real buttons. And unless you've not noticed, even phones with buttons aren't very good for playing games, simply because they're not built for it. I can play lots of games on my (non-smart) phone, but that doesn't mean it's an enjoyable experience.

 

[Exophase]

I suppose you've done polls, 'cause I've seen the opposite that most people would rather play what they can get on their phone and not have to get a gaming handheld.

Look dude, you said that people would prefer to get a Dingoo and a phone. Not just play everything on a phone. We've already established that phones are shit for emulators and are not the end all of gaming for everyone. So stick to relevant comments, okay? That, and I never said that anything was a majority. Just that there are a lot of people. Of there are people that prefer convergence - ironically, that's exactly what you said in your "counter"!

But yes, most people just want to play games on phones, that's why Nintendo DS's aren't selling worth a damn. Listen to yourself, listen to just how little sense you're making >_>

Which ones?

Holy crap man, I'm starting to wonder if you've even HEARD of Nintendo DS.

You can get flagship smartphones for $0 on contract with some carriers, and locally you can get an iPhone 3G for $50 on contract, so, no. Depends specifically what your carriers are, but a lot of people are getting an iPhone over an iPod Touch because it's cheaper for them.

iPhone 3GS. Who wants to get the old iPhone now? And did you ignore everything else I said about the contracts themselves?? Did you also forget that a lot of people are in the middle of 2 year contracts already and would have to pay to break them to get a new one??

There are ways around this, which plenty of people take advantage of. Other people are perfectly happy with these plans as they pay that much anyway.

I don't know what those ways are, but that doesn't sound that legitimate. You could probably steal a unit too..

Obviously people are happy with it, I never said otherwise. On the contrary, you seem to think that's good for EVERYONE.

There's no way you're going to convince me that buying an iPhone contract at $70/month over two years + whatever it is up front (I don't remember exactly, is it $300? More?) is no extra cost over getting a $30/month contract (no data) over 2 years with a $50-$70 or so phone.

Sure, I couldn't convince you of that, but that's not the reality of the situation in a lot of places.

I'd think it intersects more than you think. I know plenty of people who like retro games who are waiting to get a phone that can play them and has decent controls rather than buying a dedicated gaming handset.

That's exactly why it doesn't intersect - because such a phone doesn't exist. And that's not the direction the phone industry is going in - that direction has been to abandon buttons altogether.

I'd also disagree that it's more desirable to have all the games on one device. Some games are better on different devices. Even though a PS2 can play Unreal Tournament it makes no sense to play it on anything other than a PC. Even though an SNES controller technically has the button for SF2, it's better to play on a Saturn controller, and as far as retro games go, the type of games that would benefit from a touchscreen also benefit from having a keyboard, which the Wiz doesn't have anyway.

Look, you're missing the point. This isn't about what you want, or what I want, it's about understanding what some people want. You seem oblivious to the reality that a lot of people would prefer to play all their games on a single HANDHELD (much different from a console, since you have to carry them around and charge them) than on a handheld and a phone. You can deny this but you're just going to be wrong, okay?

 

[migo]

Oh and I'm pretty sure that no matter how cheap you get the phone itself, you're going to be paying a lot more for a smartphone--most of them require monthly data plans, and if not they sort of require them anyway for them to be worth buying.

Not at all. I know plenty of people with Smartphones who don't have data plans.

I'm also not sure how you're arguing that playing ANY retro game on a phone is better than playing it with real buttons. And unless you've not noticed, even phones with buttons aren't very good for playing games, simply because they're not built for it. I can play lots of games on my (non-smart) phone, but that doesn't mean it's an enjoyable experience.

I'm talking about games that use the touch screen. Touch screen games will work just as well on a smart phone as they would on the Wiz.

Look dude, you said that people would prefer to get a Dingoo and a phone. Not just play everything on a phone. We've already established that phones are shit for emulators and are not the end all of gaming for everyone. So stick to relevant comments, okay?

It is relevant, the major input difference between the Dingoo and the Wiz is the touch screen. As far as emulators go, none of them make use of touch screen and controls, so you don't need it in one device. If you've got a touch screen phone anyway, the touchscreen on the Wiz becomes redundant and the emulation capabilities of the Dingoo do quite well, for being cheaper.

That, and I never said that anything was a majority. Just that there are a lot of people. Of there are people that prefer convergence - ironically, that's exactly what you said in your "counter"!

You're taking it out of context from what I originally said on the topic. I was saying that it's harder to settle on the Wiz because it doubles up on features you already have.

Holy crap man, I'm starting to wonder if you've even HEARD of Nintendo DS.

No DS emulators, so the DS is irrelevant in a discussion about emulation unless you're talking about emulation ON a DS.

iPhone 3GS. Who wants to get the old iPhone now? And did you ignore everything else I said about the contracts themselves?? Did you also forget that a lot of people are in the middle of 2 year contracts already and would have to pay to break them to get a new one??

You can re-sign a contract in the middle, getting the phone at the discount price and extending your contract by 2 years from the date of resigning without having to pay any ECF.

I don't know what those ways are, but that doesn't sound that legitimate. You could probably steal a unit too..

Nothing illegitimate about it. You just talk to customer service. The sales people won't tell you you can do it, because they get commission for selling data plans, CS reps don't have anything to lose by changing your plan.

Obviously people are happy with it, I never said otherwise. On the contrary, you seem to think that's good for EVERYONE.

No, I'm saying it's fracturing the market for the Wiz.

That's exactly why it doesn't intersect - because such a phone doesn't exist. And that's not the direction the phone industry is going in - that direction has been to abandon buttons altogether.

Then explain why people are playing NES and GB games on their phones...

Look, you're missing the point. This isn't about what you want, or what I want, it's about understanding what some people want. You seem oblivious to the reality that a lot of people would prefer to play all their games on a single HANDHELD (much different from a console, since you have to carry them around and charge them) than on a handheld and a phone. You can deny this but you're just going to be wrong, okay?

If people preferred that then you wouldn't see people walking around with both a DS and a PSP on them. Some people want everything on one device, other people prefer multiple devices that do each thing well, and they also want it as cheap as possible. Smartphone for $0 covers touch screen games. Dingoo for $100 covers most classic controls. Wiz for $180 does too, but it doesn't do anything Dingoo + Smartphone doesn't, and if you're paying $0 for the Smartphone it doesn't make much sense not to get it. I'm not paying $80 extra to get a touchscreen twice. Other people will see it the same way, and that means less people interested in the Wiz, and since it's a small market to begin with that isn't good for it.

 

[sam fisher]

I though it was not going well sales wise, certainly nothing in comparison to the GP2X, but apparently all the sales are going via thinkgeek.

When I told you that I pointed out that it was purely speculation but that it would make sense seeing as more people know of thinkgeek than you. I also said that from your viewpoint you cannot see all the Wiz sales so thinkgeek could be selling millions for all you would know of it.

 

[craigix]

I though it was not going well sales wise, certainly nothing in comparison to the GP2X, but apparently all the sales are going via thinkgeek.

When I told you that I pointed out that it was purely speculation but that it would make sense seeing as more people know of thinkgeek than you. I also said that from your viewpoint you cannot see all the Wiz sales so thinkgeek could be selling millions for all you would know of it.

Maybe, but it's unlikely isn't it. Where are all these millions of users?

 

[Audi]

at the pub or at a mates?
It's friday night right.

 

[DurTahar]

I'm talking about games that use the touch screen. Touch screen games will work just as well on a smart phone as they would on the Wiz.

Two things:

#1, a lot of touch screen games benefit from buttons as well, in scummvm games it's nice to use buttons like the enter key as well as buttons to bring up the keyboard, which means not having to clutter up the main screen with 'buttons' to bring these things up. On a small device, you need all the screen space you can get.

#2, at least in the case of the touch-screen phones I've seen, you can't use a stylus. A lot of times on a small device things have to be scaled down. Menu items are hard enough to select as it is because they're so small, selecting them with your fingers instead of a stylus sucks.

 

[Dunny]

Menu items are hard enough to select as it is because they're so small, selecting them with your fingers instead of a stylus sucks.

It's even worse if you've been eating crisps.

D.

 

[deise]

There's no point arguing with migo, it doesn't listen/want to know

 

[migo]

I'm talking about games that use the touch screen. Touch screen games will work just as well on a smart phone as they would on the Wiz.

Two things:

#1, a lot of touch screen games benefit from buttons as well, in scummvm games it's nice to use buttons like the enter key as well as buttons to bring up the keyboard, which means not having to clutter up the main screen with 'buttons' to bring these things up. On a small device, you need all the screen space you can get.

ScummVM would play much better on a smartphone, given you have text input already supported. I wouldn't get a Wiz to play ScummVM or anything like that, primary purpose would be having good controls for classic consoles and handheld systems, which the A320 does as well. The touchscreen is a nice add-on, but not if I need to pay $80 more for it. I was seriously considering getting a Wiz, then I looked at the screen tearing problems, and then by the time it actually shipped the A320 had gotten decent community support.

#2, at least in the case of the touch-screen phones I've seen, you can't use a stylus. A lot of times on a small device things have to be scaled down. Menu items are hard enough to select as it is because they're so small, selecting them with your fingers instead of a stylus sucks.

More phones are resistive than capacitive these days. iPhone, Android phones, Samsung Omnia i8910, Nokia X6 are the only ones I can think of that don't come with a stylus. Potentially some touch screen dumbphones don't come with them either, but you're going to have to find a way to code whatever emulator you want in J2ME. Pretty much any S60v5 (as crappy as it is) and Windows Mobile (which is fine with custom ROMs) phone will have a resistive screen and a stylus.

 

[DurTahar]

Missed this the first time around

Then explain why people are playing NES and GB games on their phones...

because sometimes you've got to shit in public toilets

edit: also

More phones are resistive than capacitive these days. iPhone, Android phones, Samsung Omnia i8910, Nokia X6 are the only ones I can think of that don't come with a stylus.

You do realize this is a huge percentage of the phones people want, right?

It's like saying "most mp3 players have such and such feature, except the ipod, zune, etc."

Those are the devices that the majority of people are going to buy, because whether you like it or not they have some very nice features. Most people aren't going to pass up the iphone just because it would suck to play scummvm games on it. Also, I did buy the Wiz with the intention of playing Scummvm games on it (among other things), as did other people, so just because you didn't want to doesn't mean this isn't a selling point. You seem to be very confused between what you look for in a device and what the majority of people look for in a device, as proven by you tossing out the iphone and android phones as if nobody wanted one in the first place.