Investors...

[craigix]

Since I'm hoping these new nubs will be the final piece of the puzzle to making the Pandora 'Solid' I'm interested to return to the topic of people wanting to invest or buy shares in OP Ltd.


We are now in a position to offer a solid product which due to the PCB and case design can be upgraded to newer tech at relatively little cost as for the most part we can keep already developed components and parts.


My thoughts are this: 100 investors maximum, with a minimum investment around $1000/£1000/E1000, with approx 25% of the OP Ltd shares on offer.


Dividends paid on profits and I'd expect a lot of the people who invest to get involved in some way or other with promotion or whatever area you might be able in.


Maybe a meeting/party in London every ~6 months to talk about ideas and meet each other.


Let me know your thoughts as I've had many emails requesting this over the last 2 years but only now do I feel the product is ready for this.

 

[WizardStan]

I will gladly put forth a few thousand of my own cash to support the project, but make absolutely certain you know what you're doing. I probably don't need to say this, but lawyer lawyer lawyer: you cannot ever have enough legal backing when you start asking for actual investments. I've seen a couple of IPOs turn downright nasty because those offering it didn't have all the right documents and clever investors tore them apart in the hours after open until things were settled.


Obviously you aren't going public, but the same still applies: get your contracts in order and make sure they are air tight, because I am genuinely afraid of what might happen if they aren't.

 

[emcee]

I'd like to invest. Although, I think I might end up a little out of the loop if the meetings are all in person, 4000 miles away.

 

[XxionxX]

Before you answer any of my questions I have to disclose that I don't have $1k to invest, but if I did I would want to know a few things. I know that you are one of the employees of this company, how many others are there? What will my investment be buying? How many pandas need to be sold before we turn a profit? I understand that some of these questions may only be answered to people who invest, so what info can you give me? I know $1K is nothing to some people, but I would like to turn a profit with my investment. I have other questions, but I didn't want to make a massive text wall or overwhelm you with questions you might not be able to answer (because some info may only be available to investors, and employees).


Edit: I wish I had $1000 extra dollars lying around. I like the people in this company, their enthusiasm for their business is what can make things go far.

 

[DaMummy]

im in, plain and simple, but i need way more info, and the contract thing stan stated is a good idea as well, and a video conference thing would be much more suitable with this kind of a worldwide thing where we hear more info and hear more ideas, ive never invested into anything so i definitely need all the info there is, including how the money would come back to the investor, and i can assure you i am in no way interested in turning this into a no keyboard, no gaming buttons, just touch screen with phone capabilities kind of product, i love it for what it is, but i also see room for growth especially after the 2 long years since the project started

 

[lancesg1]

I would love to invest in this, I live in the us. I would love more info and also a pandora to mess with. Im just waiting for mine from


The second batch or a 1nub if you have one.

 

[Xenu]

How many units do you need to sell in order for you to make a profit of £400.000 (after all expenses,salaries etc are paid for.) And how many percent of the total profits will go to dividends to the shareholders?


Also is the profits from the icontrolpad part of this deal?

 

[craigix]

Once we establish who is interested we will discuss with them more about the terms and conditions, but the potential for profit is very good and obliviously it will be an investment you understand.

 

[neko]

Potentially interested, but I would need to research the tax/legal consequences, as I am not in the UK and haven't made any investments in UK companies before.


The amount you're looking to raise is less than I would have expected. This suggests you're mainly looking to repay existing debt rather than financing full production runs and selling the Pandoras when they are finished. This is something we'd need to discuss.


Specific other things that I as an investor would expect disclosure of would be:


- Total cost of paying for a production run of 4000 Pandoras in advance


- Cost of purchasing an injection moulding machine versus continuing to have this done in China


- The nature of the agreement with the nub manufacturer, and the status of the bankruptcy proceedings


- Status the TV-out cables, and the total cost of manufacturing 10000 of these


- Realistic cost estimate of R&D for the next generation product


- Realistic discussion of risks due to currency fluctuations and overhead due to bank fees


- Realistic estimates of liabilities due to warranty/RMA


- Disclosure of debts and other obligations of OpenPandora, Ltd


- Disclosure of any significant unfulfilled obligations to MJW designs or OpenPandora GmbH


- Explain the potential legal issues with iControlPad and financial risk thereof


- Compliance with relevant laws regarding public offerings of securities

 

[gruso]

[edit] @craig - unfortunate typo. :/


I could be interested, pending more details of course.


[edit2] ok, Neko is someone I am glad to have in this thread.

 

[craigix]

Potentially interested, but I would need to research the tax/legal consequences, as I am not in the UK and haven't made any investments in UK companies before.


The amount you're looking to raise is less than I would have expected. This suggests you're mainly looking to repay existing debt rather than financing full production runs and selling the Pandoras when they are finished. This is something we'd need to discuss.

The company has no debt aside from our initial investment in the project back in 2008.


The money would be to fund larger runs and future products. We're pretty good at doing things on a tiny budget - but great things could happen with a good injection of cash, things would speed up substantially. We would also welcome your ideas or an advantage you might bring, or just the fact you would have a reason to promote the Pandora. I would very much like to meet up with some of you if this idea goes forward.


I'm getting a lot of PM's about this - we will likely set up a page on the main site so you can submit your email address if you're interested.

 

[neko]

[edit2] ok, Neko is someone I am glad to have in this thread.

I've been working in finance and investing for many years so I don't consider myself a noob at this. Public companies must disclose material risks to their investors, and I think the things I mentioned are material. Also any significant shareholders (rules vary by country, but usually >10% ownership) must be disclosed. So the investments of ED, Fatih, and MWeston are relevant.


Also I second WizardStan's suggestion that Craig needs a lawyer experienced in this sort of thing.

 

[DaveC]

So the investments of ED, Fatih, and MWeston are relevant.

Me too, I had a hand in it by making the Pandora case (iControlpad too), everyone seems to forget...


In my case and MWeston's though our investment was the years of time and work put into it for no immediate pay.


I do have an agreement with OP for the Pandora case work but it isn't a big initial sum and basically amounts to a small royalty on each one sold after a certain point (not even close to that yet). This should have very minimal, to no, effect on the company though. They only pay this if they sell, and the drain is miniscule.

 

[wardred]

Had a long post I managed to wipe out. The short of it is I'm probably only in a position to invest the minimum, if that - if US 1K even makes sense as a minimum. Grumble, but there ya go. I've a lot of faith in the effort of Craig and his team. It looks like the main obstacle at this point - the availability of parts to assemble - is going to be eased, but I still want to see a strong run from the nub company and from the board company. Good job on the case assembly though! I was also curious if the last couple case tweaks DaveC mentioned were going to be done after batch 2 - or at all, and if there were any plans on moving the plastics manufacturing to the U.K. once the initial 10k order from the Chinese is finished. (Or, if things seem to be working better with the Chinese. They seemed to put in a lot of work on the modifications, even if they were kinda slow making them.)

 

[DaveC]

Had a long post I managed to wipe out. The short of it is I'm probably only in a position to invest the minimum, if that - if US 1K even makes sense as a minimum. Grumble, but there ya go. I've a lot of faith in the effort of Craig and his team. It looks like the main obstacle at this point - the availability of parts to assemble - is going to be eased, but I still want to see a strong run from the nub company and from the board company. Good job on the case assembly though! I was also curious if the last couple case tweaks DaveC mentioned were going to be done after batch 2 - or at all, and if there were any plans on moving the plastics manufacturing to the U.K. once the initial 10k order from the Chinese is finished. (Or, if things seem to be working better with the Chinese. They seemed to put in a lot of work on the modifications, even if they were kinda slow making them.)

The case tweaks are actually minimal. A few simple things can be done to fix the issues. It may not be worth re-making the molds in the UK as that would be EXPENSIVE. I would also like to see about having a custom hinge insert made that would add another detent for another locking position other than the one now that is only open all of the way or closed.

 

[wardred]

Me too, I had a hand in it by making the Pandora case (iControlpad too), everyone seems to forget...


In my case and MWeston's though our investment was the years of time and work put into it for no immediate pay.

DaveC, I don't think the community's forgotten you or MWeston. I'm sure Craig hasn't. I'd fully expect any prior commitments be met, and that those commitments would be part of the disclosure to any who invest.

 

[craigix]

I've been working in finance and investing for many years so I don't consider myself a noob at this. Public companies must disclose material risks to their investors, and I think the things I mentioned are material. Also any significant shareholders (rules vary by country, but usually >10% ownership) must be disclosed. So the investments of ED, Fatih, and MWeston are relevant.


Also I second WizardStan's suggestion that Craig needs a lawyer experienced in this sort of thing.

The company is a private limited company, we have no intention of floating the company on any stock exchange (such things would cost far too much money) - although it could slip in to a PLC.


As I've said, everything would be disclosed to anyone who was serious about investing, although you might be disappointed to know there are no big secrets or debts or surprises. We have been very open with events as they have happened.


We have a great accountant who can handle the situation.


We want to go ahead with this so we can build and sell more Pandora consoles to make larger profits and you, the investors, would profit from this too. Those of you following the project know how hard we have worked and that the expensive R&D is done. We really like what we are doing but we know if we are to push ahead and become bigger it will require a big injection of cash.


I'll get a page online where you can register your interest, and we might do a newsletter about it too.


I'm enjoying reading all your thoughts about this too.

 

[neko]

DaveC, I don't think the community's forgotten you or MWeston. I'm sure Craig hasn't. I'd fully expect any prior commitments be met, and that those commitments would be part of the disclosure to any who invest.

Exactly. I'd expect something is owed to Notaz too...

 

[gruso]

Me too, I had a hand in it by making the Pandora case (iControlpad too), everyone seems to forget...

A side effect of staying largely out of sight during development, perhaps? Neko simply named the core team members who have been on the frontline representing the project for the last two years (and who most people would assume were the financial stakeholders). I think most people are aware that you're the case designer.

I would like to know that all the guys involved in the OS were getting a slice of the pie too.

 

[wardred]

Thanks DaveC. When things seemed to be really stalled there was talk of having the finished molds shipped back to the U.K., though I've no idea how much work it would be to get the U.K. injection machines to mesh with the Chinese molds. If Craig's happy with the quality of the cases and the speed they can produce them, this may be a moot point now.


Edit: especially since they seem to be producing in the thousands now.