Interest In Commercial Games Or Free Only?

[gfxpulse]

Well the problem is say you buy 15 games, now you are at $150 in software. Now your GP2X breaks and nothing will run on your new unit now what? Re-buy everything again and invest $300.00 in the same games? Unacceptable. There is always this nagging feeling in the back of my mind when I buy a DRMed game and it is that I really don't own it.

I dont know about anyone else, but I cannot see any developer (or larger site with multiple developers games) saying 'no, i wont generate you a new copy locked to your new device because your old one broke' (or generate new key, or whatever), even if they have moved on from the project.

Yes, if the site goes down, or the developer dies, then you might lose out on the game.

But, I would imagine this whole situation has been considered. i.e. why wouldnt a site (similiar to the likes of handango or whatever) already have a history of your past purchases, and have your key (As they need to generate keys/software), so if your unit dies, you just change your preferences to have the new key and redownload? (limited to X number of changes per X time period).

 

[Digital Awakening]

I've heard that you can DRM lock games to a specific SD card instead of your GP2X, I don't know what GPH are planning. Personally I think that GHP should do something about the poor sods that breaks their units. For example you could send in your broken GP2X and all games you have bought are avalible for download again for your new GP2X.

It's not just wares sites that is a problem. With an increasing number of units sold it's getting more and more likely that people spread games to their friends and then they spread them to more friends. So every game sold could be spread to a lot of users. Even if each copy on average is spread to another 4 players that means that only 20% have actually bought their copies. If every 1/8 of these would have bought the game had they not recived it for free it means the dev could have sold 50% more.

We have to look at who the potential customers are. A lot of these: 1) have little cash. 2) Bought it to play free emulators. 3) Are Linux users who like stuff for free. And similar people. Some people would not spread their games and some would buy games they have illegally copied but from experience these are quite rare. You have to remember that people active in communities like this doesn't represent the people in general. As long as only a small number of GP2X are sold then you can expect the community to largely represent the userbase. But it seems to me that there's already a huge interest for GP2X outside of the community.

If a game is no longer made or sold they are called abandonware and they are accepted. A popular site is www.the-underdogs.org. I see no problems in releasing my games for free a few years after they are made when nobody buys them anymore. That's right, not a year from release because then they are still qutite new. If everybody released their games for free exactly a year after they where made then there would be little reason for anyone to buy those games.

 

[Digital Awakening]

Well the problem is say you buy 15 games, now you are at $150 in software.  Now your GP2X breaks and nothing will run on your new unit now what?  Re-buy everything again and invest $300.00 in the same games?  Unacceptable.  There is always this nagging feeling in the back of my mind when I buy a DRMed game and it is that I really don't own it. 

How did $150 turn into $300? :rolleyes:

You never own a game that you "buy" you own the right to use it in certain ways.

 

[Digitalrat]

First off £ and € are very different so don't mix them.

I agree, but the options in the vote are in $, right? :rolleyes: You just made the same mistake.

Oh and 1€ is more than 1$, so it doesn't matter regarding my post.

 

[Digitalrat]

How did $150 turn into $300? rolleyes.gif

games $150+gp2x $150=$300 for both

 

[OrR]

Sure? I thought he referred to paying 300$ for games that normally cost 150$ because he'd have bought them twice.

 

[Digitalrat]

Not sure, both could be right.

 

[Digital Awakening]

€ and $ are quite similar these days although € is about 10% more. Problem was that some people where using £ and € when discussing the same issue.

DaveC said: "and invest $300.00 in the same games". GP2X is $180 so it would be a $330 total + shpping.

 

[Ravnos]

I don't think there will be many games sold without DRM protection. Simply put it any game gets pirated a lot because most people think that once they have got a game for free there's no reason to buy it.

​

We have to fight this kind of thinking and I think we can. If we completely kill any thoughts about piracy in the main communities, that's already pretty much enough. It might be possible that a GP2X warez forum or something forms somewhere, just seen that sort of thing happen to the Zodiac. They won't get many visitors but it would still be good if they could be shut down. Anyone up for forming an action group with the goal to kill GP2X warez and to report the details of the offenders to the authorities?

​

DRM doesn't stop piracy. Hackers will crack the DRM anyway. The only ones hurt by DRM would be the ones that buy the game. Pirates will be able to use the cracked game anyway they want and be able to use it forever. Legal owners may find themselves unable to use the games they bought.

The zodiac is a perfect example. If your z broke tomorrow and you bought a replacement none of your games would work especially now since tapwave went out of business. The same could happen with the GP2X. The only way for you to get the games to work on the new unit would be to get warez versions.

​

I'm inclined to agree with DaveC here. DRM does nothing to help consumers. It doesn't prevent piracy, it just gets in the way of legitimate use. I'm immediately reminded of the Jargon File definition of copy protection.

copy protection: n.
A class of methods for preventing incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it. Considered silly.

You want to discourage piracy? Make it easier for people to get your software legitimately than it is for them to get it illegally. We can go on and on about how selfish people are, but that goes both ways. People are lazy and will take the path of least resistance. If it's easy for me to go to the GPH website and drop $10+ on a DRM-free game from a central listing and sales site, then I'll do it. We're a niche market and it'll be a pain in the ass to find this stuff on p2p sites compared to the big name console games. But if you DRM it, there's going to be someone out there who will crack it just because they can, and, as Dave has said, if there's the sense that people are merely renting games rather than buying them, the path of least resistance to "ownership" becomes piracy. Want a case in point? Go read Penny Arcade's front page from about a week ago. Tycho had legitimately purchased F.E.A.R. and couldn't play it on his machine due to the DRM. Do you think this is the sort of thing that will discourage piracy? Piracy is going to happen no matter what you do, but if you want to keep the numbers down, make it easy to do things legally.

 

[Digital Awakening]

DRM have not been broken yet AFAIK

 

[lucoxade]

DRM have not been broken yet AFAIK

​

Which DRM? I have a feeling CSS was broken a little while ago Which DRM method are GPH planning on using anyway?

To date, all DRM systems have failed to meet the challenge of protecting the rights of the copyright owner while also respecting the rights of the purchaser of a copy. None have succeeded in preventing criminal copyright infringement by organized, unlicensed, commercial pirates.

 

[declaration]

DRM have not been broken yet AFAIK

​

GP32 games were leaked on the net as warez. The GP32 had DRM. The only thing that stopped rampant piracy was community resistance.

DRM only hurts consumers.

 

[Goity]

DRM have not been broken yet AFAIK

​

GP32 games were leaked on the net as warez. The GP32 had DRM. The only thing that stopped rampant piracy was community resistance.

DRM only hurts consumers.

​

Didn't the GP32 have secumax?(forgive me if this is just another incarnation of DRM)

 

[Digital Awakening]

Just looked it up. DRM is a term for various types of protection of digital media.

 

[TheTurnipKing]

Very true: The only person stopped playing commercial games by copy protection is the poor schmuck who shells out money to buy it. For everyone else gets a version without copy protection.

 

[xafier]

But, I would imagine this whole situation has been considered. i.e. why wouldnt a site (similiar to the likes of handango or whatever) already have a history of your past purchases, and have your key (As they need to generate keys/software), so if your unit dies, you just change your preferences to have the new key and redownload? (limited to X number of changes per X time period).

I would assume this would be the method they'd use, at least it seems the most logical to me... perhaps allow one change every 3 months? so if your GP2X dies you only have to wait a max of 3 months since purchasing it to be able to get a new version for your replaced GP2X...

personally I think the DRM is fine as long as something like above is put in place, not allowing a re-download for a replaced console is not good, but not having protection will lead to eMule and torrentz full of all the games...

and to whoever was complaining about not being able to play his GP32 games anymore, if you search you'll find theres ways to crack your games and play them... dunno where, but I know it exists

 

[Digital Awakening]

I don't think anyone is gonna break their GP2X once every 3 months. Such a short time period means that you could allow your firend(s) to download the game as well. This could be solved by sending in your broken unit, although that would involve some extra shipping costs. Or you could allow say 1 change per year.

I would like to get official info from GPH though, both what they are charging per sold game and how they are gonna handle the broken unit problem.

 

[xafier]

I don't think anyone is gonna break their GP2X once every 3 months. Such a short time period means that you could allow your firend(s) to download the game as well. This could be solved by sending in your broken unit, although that would involve some extra shipping costs. Or you could allow say 1 change per year.

of course if they locked out the old code permently then you wouldnt change it to allow your friends download then change back as then you'd never be able to get games for your machine ever again

plus, would you change the code for your friend and have to wait 3 months before you can buy a new game anyways? if they didnt lock out old ID's?

 

[Digital Awakening]

Ah, didn't think about the lock-the-old-ID-solution :rolleyes: Yeah, if you can no longer buy anymore games for your own unit then it's effective. BTW, DRM protection could be used as an identifier for online games, that way only those with legal copies can play online. Online gaming through a WiFi SDIO card that is.

 

[DaveC]

But, I would imagine this whole situation has been considered.  i.e. why wouldnt a site (similiar to the likes of handango or whatever) already have a history of your past purchases, and have your key (As they need to generate keys/software), so if your unit dies, you just change your preferences to have the new key and redownload? (limited to X number of changes per X time period).

​

This is fine as long as all of the companies that you bought games from stay in business. If they don't and you need to move the games to new hardware you are again fucked. Case study: Zodiac.

There are just too many ways to get screwed with DRM. Plus e-mailing all of the game devs to beg permission for a new version for new hardware is a hassle.