iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

WizardStan

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Link is making his way through the emails. I got a notice a week ago, vcoleiro got it a day or two ago, give it a bit of time.
 

kasp

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Either they are realizing that far too many people have been burned and are not backing anymore.

Or they will offer insurance on extremely vetted projects which pretty much succeed and doing a cash grab.

On another note I wonder whatever happened to Craig and if he is still alive?
 
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dflatline

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I think it would be better for people to just accept that you're not guaranteed a backer reward if a project fails. Kickstarter/Indieogogo never was nor has it claimed to be a preorder or investment platform; its patronage. Before backing a project you should probably consider exactly why they've turned to crowdfunding rather than legitimate investment. Would you buy shares in a company thats entire assets consist of a single HTML page, some photoshop mock-ups and a video? If you're sensible you wouldn't and even then you'd at least be getting a share in the company in return along with all the legal protection and accountability. Thats not to say that you shouldn't donate to a project unless it was equivalent to a legitimate business investment, Kickstarter/Indiegogo is exactly for that sort of thing; small niche products/services that are too limited in quantity and appeal to be stricly a business proposition.
 

M-HT

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On a different note.  Over a year ago, I mentioned that these crowd sourcing sites like KS and Indiegogo, need to start implementing optional/mandatory insurance to protect backers.  Seems that is now coming true -> http://www.slashgear.com/indiegogo-testing-insurance-feature-for-backers-02358072/
If you don't receive the product within 3 months after the estimated delivery date, Indiegogo gives you your money back. What happens when the product delivers later? You get the product and the money?
I don't know the situation on Indiegogo - I back only two projects there, one was just money support without delivery date and the second one still has time to deliver. But I made small statistics of projects I backed on Kickstarter.

From successfully funded projects I backed:

21% were delivered later than 3 months after the estimated delivery date

32% were delivered sooner than 3 months after the estimated delivery date

21% are not yet delivered and are more than 3 months after the estimated delivery date

25% are not yet delivered and are less than 3 months after the estimated delivery date

1% is officialy failed (no, it's not ICP2)

That means that at least 43% of projects I backed are/will be delivered later that 3 months after the estimated delivery date or not delivered at all.
 

Ian J

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I would presume by accepting the insurance refund after 3 months you are taken off the list of "pre-orders"
 

vcoleiro1

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@M-HT

After 3 months you have the option of getting your money back on insurance or to continue waiting.  
 

M-HT

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Ok, they remove you from the list of backers, I didn't think of that. But that solves the problem only if you request the money before the project author sends the reward and if, before sending, he checks if you are still on the backer list.

But what if you receive the product later than 3 months after the estimated delivery date? You can request the money, because the insurance is still valid, so you get the product and your money back.
 

vcoleiro1

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I guess you would have to read the insurance fine print, so to speak, to find out - maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.  It wouldn't be hard for them to check with the project owner to see if you got it before granting any insurance claim though. 

ZXSpectrum handheld game machine anyone:> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega
 
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dflatline

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@M-HT

I guess you would have to read the insurance fine print, so to speak, to find out - maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.  It wouldn't be hard for them to check with the project owner to see if you got it before granting any insurance claim though. 

ZXSpectrum handheld game machine anyone:> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega
Wow, thats probably the most badly designed thing I've ever seen. Looks awkward to hold, buttons in funny positions. Why can't someone just make literally minaturised ZX Spectrum with a full keyboard about the size of a smart phone? I mean just look at all the empty space on that thing. The Nokia n900 fits a full keyboard in three rows of keys and about an inch of space.
 

iprice

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I'm in 2 minds about this insurance, on the one hand it's good for the buyer, on the other I see no penalty for the seller that doesn't deliver.
Should a seller be penalised for not delivering? I think that would depend on the circumstances. As long as the reasons are/appear legitimate I wouldn't necessarily want a KS seller to be penalised - they may well have invested a massive amount of their own time and money into the venture before, during and after the campaign. However I would hope that an honest seller would at least try to make some sort of recompense to prevent backers losing out completely.

Although to be fair I was totally pissed off at the only successful campaign I backed the seller used the money then fucked off only to work on a completely different project.
 

dflatline

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Who would penalise them and how though? You can't make them refund the backers money because it no longer exists.
 

Ian J

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Who would penalise them and how though? You can't make them refund the backers money because it no longer exists.
If the project owner had to take out some insurance of their own I feel it would give me more confidence in a project.

As it stands they have not had to do anything extra and the backers are again paying the extra cost.
 

dflatline

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That would require an insurer to underwrite the entire project though, meaning that it would be more sensible for project to not be on kickstarter at all and the insurance company to directly invest for a stake. I think the best solution would be to force projects over a certain amount to form an LLC and supply public accounts and enter a contract with Kickstarter/Indiegogo where if its not met any leftover assets, funds, IP etc is liquidised and redistributed amongst backers.
 

Exophase

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@M-HT

I guess you would have to read the insurance fine print, so to speak, to find out - maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.  It wouldn't be hard for them to check with the project owner to see if you got it before granting any insurance claim though. 

ZXSpectrum handheld game machine anyone:> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega
From the project page:

Instead the Vega uses a low cost micro-controller and a clever piece of software that combine to enable the Vega to run all of the games
I wish "emulator" hadn't become a dirty word to some people :(

I like how a genuine microcontroller really can handle as something as low end as ZXSpectrum emulation, assuming they can get by without extremely high accuracy. Don't even need an apps processor SoC for this. Makes me think of the Speccy emulator that was found in Goldeneye for the N64 - microcontrollers for a few years now could outperform N64 in CPU power.

But I kind of wonder if they're not going to be shooting themselves in the foot by promising that every single one of 14,000 games will work fine. Maybe emulation for this system really is so mature that they have confidence in hitting perfect compatibility with a new emulator on a low end platform. Even systems with true hardware backwards compatibility will often still fail to run a very small percentage of games correctly. Although reading on, it looks like they do cover this in the FAQ by at least clarifying that it's only to the best of their knowledge that all games work.
 
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Saber

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I would still rather get an iCP1 (I pleged 69$+shipping), and only as a second choice if no iCP1 is available would I like to get the Pyra rebate.

If I understand well enough, there is no procedure to state 2nd choices so I should not send any email right now and just wait ?
My first choice was for the defunct iCP1 and my second was credit towards a Pyra through Link's shop.

Mark, if you do happen to read this, please don't automatically refund $20 to backers without asking us first if we would now want the second offer. 
 

benoitb

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I would still rather get an iCP1 (I pleged 69$+shipping), and only as a second choice if no iCP1 is available would I like to get the Pyra rebate.

If I understand well enough, there is no procedure to state 2nd choices so I should not send any email right now and just wait ?
My first choice was for the defunct iCP1 and my second was credit towards a Pyra through Link's shop.

Mark, if you do happen to read this, please don't automatically refund $20 to backers without asking us first if we would now want the second offer. 
You don't have to worry. I was told no icp1 is available anymore but they waited for my answer by email before sending me a refund. As I live in Europe, I decided not to ask for the Pyra credit on Link's shop. I figured 20$ now is better than 55 or so later, maybe, probably taxed by the customs when coming from the US to Europe.
 
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