iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[TrashyMG]

That seems like a lot of work for $87 USD.  That's usually less than a moderate night out drinking and dining with friends.  

 

[FaeMinx]

Personally, i don't care about the refund...

but i would pay almost the same amount again towards a class action whose focus was to have Craig investigated.

That's right. I would throw more money away just in order to have Craig's financial dealings made fully transparent.

In my opinion, the backers should stop yammering to get a measly few dollars back (a fraction of what they put in), and think about using whatever money is left to investigate Craig. If the money left isn't enough, then those who are interested enough could donate to the cause.

Edit: But don't look to me to organize it... I'm not that hot under the collar, and besides... it would  be better handled by someone in the UK.

 

[Klumpen]

Personally, i don't care about the refund...

but i would pay almost the same amount again towards a class action whose focus was to have Craig investigated.

That's right. I would throw more money away just in order to have Craig's financial dealings made fully transparent.

In my opinion, the backers should stop yammering to get a measly few dollars back (a fraction of what they put in), and think about using whatever money is left to investigate Craig. If the money left isn't enough, then those who are interested enough could donate to the cause.

I said it before and I'd still donate for opening Craigs books, although I never gave him a single cent.

 

[Exophase]

Link, feel free to PM me if you want the money to refund Ryan Lucas that he refused to accept from me directly. I don't think you should ignore this guy any longer, he clearly means business and is going to take you to court. I don't want to see you end up bankrupted over one person's petulance, all for something that is not your fault and nothing you were ever going to make a meaningful profit over.

 

[TrashyMG]

Also Link since you will most likely not recover all of the Kickstarter money, I'd gladly forfeit my refund($100) to go to noisier people that are more eager to get their refund. You shouldn't have to pay for Craig's mis-management.

 

[rohezal]

I think it is entirely reasonable to 'go after' MWeston and DaveC in the terms of : You were given $X do you have $Y to give back to the refund fund? It could be that no work was done on the case (there was certainly no mention anywhere of work being done) it could be that DaveC spent hours designing the case but Craig just never bothered to mention it. Without 'going after' them it's unlikely we'll ever find out.

Well there were Renders of the Case, and some were more modified for the backlight. A CAD design and maybe some prototypes are expensive.

Life is all about choices. You made the choice to professionally and personally back Craig Rothwell by placing your name on that document.

In fact Link just collected the money and gave it too Craig, but since you want the official way...

If you want it this way, Link's limited gave the money to Craig's limited with the contract to produce the ICP2. Craig's limited developed most parts of the product, produced some samples and ordered most production parts, but could not produce the final product. Craig's limited used most of the money (ED has some money for GC I believe). Link's could request all the assets (probably none but the parts which need to be sold) of Craig's limited to compensate for the money. And then use the money (probably none but the parts which need to be sold) for the refunds. If the selling money isn't enough Link's limited could probably fill a insolvency formular and the story ends without further consequences. He did not commit a crime. A company tried to develop and produce a new product and failed in the middle / end of the development process. This happens quite often.

 

[andmaz777]

Well as long as LINK has done nothing wrong he has absolutely nothing to worry about - we all know were the problems are and that is where the effort should be focused.


The refunds will happen (but selling the parts may not happen as buyers have to be found) and everyone should receive the same proportion although there is debate as to what multiple unit investors should receive but no one person should receive a full refund at the expense of others.


Yes legally LINK has responsibilities but in reality there is little he can do and the man who needs to be investigated is going to get away scott free - plus even a full investigation may come to nothing as a lot of issues go beyond this project.

 

[ramboky]

Thanks for the update Link. Here's the thing, we've been lied to and placated with vague and misleading updates for over a year by Craig. When you stepped in it's natural for people to be a little weary of anything anyone involved in the project says. When you promise transparency then follow up with monthly updates showing no progress and finger pointing it looks no different to the bullshit we'd been putting up with for months. I really do appreciate your posts here and I expect they'll go a long way to calming some backers down. A little openness and honesty makes a world of difference.

My gut instinct was that Craig couldn't be trusted at the time the project was live for actions he took against ED involving 1GHz Open Pandoras at the time.  And lets not forget the fact that Craig instructed ED to keep me away from 1GHz Open Pandora sales when he went ahead and announced them to the world for being for sale through Open Pandora LTD (Craig's company). 

...

I made a bad choice, but I'm not going to just walk away from everyone.  I'm not that kind of person.  I've been quiet to bring more to light and give Craig the benefit of the doubt when he said he'd sell his home and put that money back into the project for refunds.  Craig also said he had ICPs that he has somewhere that he was going to give to me too, to sell and get more money in into refunds.  Well, no words from Craig, nothing in months, no ICPs being shipped to me.  It's time to move on.  I don't think backers want to risk losing any remaining funds to pursue Craig legally, and receive less of a refund. 

My sincerest apologies.

This however completely beggars belief. You don't trust Craig from the outset, he proceeds to lie constantly throughout the project, deliver nothing, the money disappears with no provable explanations for where it's gone, he bails and hangs you out to dry.... and then you decide to give him the benefit of the doubt!? I'm sorry Link, but that isn't a bad choice, that's plain stupidity. 

I genuinely wish you the best in sorting this out.

 

[ramboky]

In fact Link just collected the money and gave it too Craig, but since you want the official way...

If you want it this way, Link's limited gave the money to Craig's limited with the contract to produce the ICP2. Craig's limited developed most parts of the product, produced some samples and ordered most production parts, but could not produce the final product. Craig's limited used most of the money (ED has some money for GC I believe). Link's could request all the assets (probably none but the parts which need to be sold) of Craig's limited to compensate for the money. And then use the money (probably none but the parts which need to be sold) for the refunds. If the selling money isn't enough he could probably fill a insolvency formular and the story ends. He did not commit a crime. A company tried to develop and produce a new product and failed in the middle / end of the development process. This happens quite often.

That would be nice if any of it were true. You have no idea whether Craig actually used the all the money he was given for the ICP2 on the project. And the evidence (circumstantial it may be) is more than enough for me to be certain he didn't. This isn't just the unfortunate failure of a startup to produce a new product, it's an incompetent fraud bleeding a project dry then leaving others to clean up his mess. Again.

 

[rohezal]

That would be nice if any of it were true. You have no idea whether Craig actually used the all the money he was given for the ICP2 on the project. And the evidence (circumstantial it may be) is more than enough for me to be certain he didn't. This isn't just the unfortunate failure of a startup to produce a new product, it's an incompetent fraud bleeding a project dry then leaving others to clean up his mess. Again.

This was the official version for Ryan. That Craig is pretty badly organized (the poll if you want a refund or a coupon for dragonbox) and has problem to realize big productions is know in this forums .

 

[ramboky]

This was the official version for Ryan. That Craig is pretty badly organized (the poll if you want a refund or a coupon for dragonbox) and has problem to realize big productions is know in this forums .

That Craig is a bald faced liar and a fraud is also known in these forums. But I thought you were trying to explain away what happened as incompetence, rather than what it was. My misunderstanding

 

[cuetzpalin]

That seems like a lot of work for $87 USD. That's usually less than a moderate night out drinking and dining with friends.

It is indeed, but he is entitled to do it. And he has some very valid points: life is after all, all about making choices.


And scammers usually get away with the money because many times people think that way: "it's just $X, it's not worth to take legal action".


I think Link is lucky that in this community most people will be comprehensive enough not to sue him, as we all know it's Craig the one that should be in jail. Nonetheless, as it has been pointed out many times before, he can do A LOT BETTER in handling this issue.

 

[sswam]

I just don't see how you can get blood from a stone.  And at what cost?

Well, the debt is $209,100. That's about half a house hereabouts.

Craig might be able to pay it back by 10 years' work, and living frugally.

I think he should do that, or else produce and ship the product.

Doesn't seem likely.

Personally I like Craig, and have been defending him, but even I don't think it is okay

to ditch the iCP2 project in a half-done state, such that refunds cannot be made nor product shipped.

I guess there are technical reasons why it cannot be completed, which would likely come down to poor planning / mismanagement.

I don't think Craig is a "scammer" but he doesn't cope well with failure, and he's not good at avoiding it, that's for sure.

Craig has given up on it, perhaps the other parties involved might collaborate to finish it.

Even if the design is finished that would be better than nothing. We can 3d print our own cases.

Link is in the position of "accidental money launderer" for this project.

If all went well this would have been harmless, but it has turned out bad.

No one or very few I suspect really give that much of a shit about their $80 or whatever.

How many refund requests did you get, I bet much less than the total.

But we don't like to be "fucked over".

At least give us something for our money and confidence.

I suggest open source the designs including the boards and the case,

and assemble the components onto the boards,

and ship the boards to people who want one (possibly at our expense if there is no money for shipping).

But I guess there is no money even to assemble the boards now.

Just give me the fucking design, and I'll be happy.

Or an apology on a postcard written in blood (preferably Craig's but any human will do).

Sam

 

[ekianjo]

I suggest open source the designs including the boards and the case,

What is Link's position on this, btw ?  

 

[sswam]

He presumably does not have the power to do it.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I would like to know what will happen with the 50-100 populated boards and whether these will be offered to backers that want them. 

Would also like to know who canceled the project - Link or Craig. Whats happening to the 3D printer - has this been raised at all with Craig?. Also what happened with the BT dongle that came with some backer levels. Were these ordered ?

 

[EvilDragon]

The money to finish the PCB production is still there, but the PCBs would be without nubs, as they're not available anymore.

So, you'd have a PCB without nubs, without case and without the dome caps for the keyboard, but otherwise working.

80 prototype boards are still lying around here.

 

[Exophase]

It sounded like there was still an unresolved issue with the firmware as well. MWeston would have to elaborate on what that was exactly.

 

[thatgui]

It sounded like there was still an unresolved issue with the firmware as well. MWeston would have to elaborate on what that was exactly.

Afaik only the nubs were problematic:

...I had the ADCs working over a month ago but the operation got flaky when paired with the nub code module.  Once Craig made it relatively clear that the project was unlikely to finish, I stopped wasting my time trying to get the nubs to read accurately but I could move them around and get raw analog data.  It made no sense to spend even more weekends away from my daughter working on this but I believe with more effort, it would have been fully functional...

But if there aren't any to begin with, that would not be a problem, I guess. Except ED has more then enough nubs (for Pandora production and repairment) lying around and could offer to sell them...

 

[Exophase]

Okay, then I guess that whole thing is moot.