iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[vcoleiro1]

I think everyone need to understand each others point of views and stop having goes at each other. I can understand views from both sides.  It's when people start to ram their view down others throats and get into this your wrong and I'm right sort of thing that it gets nasty.

 

[Exophase]

I don't care about people's opinions, until it becomes a campaign of trying to ruin other people who don't deserve it.

 

[comradekingu]

What ED explained is different from what link explained, and craigs part in this is only known through link disclosing something sent in an email to him.

For however often link does updates it would more be interesting to know once and for all which bank account an to the tune of how much money he sent money "to craig"

A bank account is tied to a company, and if not im really not getting whats going on, nor why link is only a proxy middleman.

There is a fine balance between getting information legally and doing something about it. People dont seem to eager to sue link based on his reputation, and if they do its only valid for their orders.

Either product 3 llc must explain who is in charge, or follow normal procedure. Which is giving out information and splitting the company assets between its creditors, which are the backers in this case.

I dont understand why link doesnt just come clean and throw everything at the table.

All this "you will get a refund, but can only guess who much of it, dont disclose hard numbers" is getting old. It is hurting him, and i cant see what skeleton there is to keep locked in the closet at this point.

Either he messed up or he didnt, expecting craig to handle the refunds or process thereof is just as much a trainwreck waiting to happen as anything else.

 

[moxie]

For however often he does updates it would be interesting to know which bank account an to the tune of how much money he sent money "to craig"

 

...and this - disclosing financial information - is exactly the kind of thing that Link cannot do if he'd ever hope to get anywhere, legally, against Craig. Which makes it hypocritical to ask for it and at the same time claim that Link should get off his ass and start sueing Craig.

 

[comradekingu]

Well if im craig i know something is going to happen, or im activly doing it by managing refunds, if on the other hand he _is_ selling his house, why not just say so? Everyone knows the address by now, unless its a private sale that information isnt going under the radar.

If im link i could say "cant disclose that now" rather than riling people to the point where they engage in legal matters. Surely nobody forgot about the whole ordeal based on his explanation of product 3 llc's part in it.

If im a backer, and im not, product 3 llc is the only legal entity with which i have any holding on, thats where the money went. If one cant know what happened after the fact, or behind the scenes, it is indistinguishable from a scam.

In that token there is a ominous lack of action and information, both of the action going forth and the actions taken beforehand.

If link doesnt do anything about it, the backers will.  As you said, business is amoral, which is why link is in the line of fire and sits on the cards. His reputation is irrelevant.

What "the team" is doing in germany is all fine, that info is on the table as there is nothing to hide there. What the project did with the rest of the money and where its at, who knows?

 

[vcoleiro1]

I can't think of any legal reason why Link couldn't tell us roughly how much went to Craig  :unsure:

 

[comradekingu]

I cant think of any legal reason why the backers shouldnt know exactly where it went after the fact, and where its now.

Money to people on ground, very fine, disclosed and activly being reimbursed.

Paying mweston, very fine, entitled to every part of it.

Money for US production, ok, expect that to be untouched

Money for things that have a logical explanation, sure

Willing to accept good will on all of the above, yet i feel this is the kicker:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Money to known project cowboy, unaccounted for, not ok.

If not even the guy making the firmware knows details of the project then the backers really have been kept in the dark.

Promising to be transparent, especially not ok when one does the opposite of whats the norm.

There is a way to scam people, and there is a way to take action against that happening. What that reaction becomes is up to link, he has had quite a lot of time to decide in the matter, and i thought from the beginning his bases were covered.

Making backers take the back seat as to what is what, not ok in the slightest, especially when one fails the whole project behind closed doors.

Everything above the line is when sit back and wait for people to do their job, as they have been all along applies.

Taking a back seat, not disclosing information. When that doesn't happen is when you dont know everything is going to plan. The basic question of the matter is as clear as the direction it takes, and its a slippery slope.

Craig certainly didnt get any better as time went by, and the same can be observed with the gcw-zero now.

 

[ekianjo]

I don't care about people's opinions, until it becomes a campaign of trying to ruin other people who don't deserve it.

I agree with you if the campaign is based on false allegations, but then why is Link refusing to come out clean on the numerous questions still left by the backers ? It's not like he did not have enough time or something. The longer he waits, the longer it SEEMS that he's trying to hide something or cover his ass for some reason.

If you have more information than us, appreciate if you could share.   

And by the way, we have a benchmark in this community. ED has had his share of problems with preorders not being fulfilled (at the time when he still had a queue for Dragonbox), and he did the right thing every single time: being 100% transparent with the issues and what he could do with the finances he had at hand. He has turned issues into full community understanding and support for his honesty. If Link is clean, I don't see why he should not do the same thing, right now. 

 

[ramboky]

I think everyone need to understand each others point of views and stop having goes at each other. I can understand views from both sides.  It's when people start to ram their view down others throats and get into this your wrong and I'm right sort of thing that it gets nasty.

Exactly. There are differing and conflicting opinions on what should and shouldn't be done here. That's not going to change so why waste time getting all ranty and upset about it. 

 

[Jumpman]

That's what went on.

It has already been posted.

And weekly updates wouldn't change anything, as I doubt Link will hear anything else from Craig at all anymore, and as long as the parts haven't been sold, there's nothing to be updated as well.

I've been saying this^ since the cancellation was originally announced, but now maybe coming from ED, some of you more zealous members will take it more to heart and give up these pointless tirades.

Chris 

 

[moxie]

I think everyone need to understand each others point of views and stop having goes at each other. I can understand views from both sides.  It's when people start to ram their view down others throats and get into this your wrong and I'm right sort of thing that it gets nasty.

Exactly. There are differing and conflicting opinions on what should and shouldn't be done here. That's not going to change so why waste time getting all ranty and upset about it. 

Because there is a difference between "I have an opinion. Now I share it" and "Immagonna f*ck someone up, and I don't care who, RIGHT NOW, because I'm pissed off, oight?!!?"

 

[ZXDunny]

We should break Links knees.. that'll show him

Really? Is that how people feel right now?

D.

 

[Fzero]

I don't think that's a general feeling, no.

...Only just noticed your mail sig too, most amusing

 

[moxie]

We should break Links knees.. that'll show him

Really? Is that how people feel right now?


D.

Well, it is just a slightly exaggerated version of the idea "Let's sue Link - That'll show him". I read Shlee as being sarcastic.

 

[ZXDunny]

We should break Links knees.. that'll show him

Really? Is that how people feel right now?

Well, it is just a slightly exaggerated version of the idea "Let's sue Link - That'll show him". I read Shlee as being sarcastic.

I was kind of hoping he was

D.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

^^^^Yup sarcasm.

 

[Fzero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i3puuhDS2E



ahhh... classic

 

[ramboky]

I think everyone need to understand each others point of views and stop having goes at each other. I can understand views from both sides.  It's when people start to ram their view down others throats and get into this your wrong and I'm right sort of thing that it gets nasty.

Exactly. There are differing and conflicting opinions on what should and shouldn't be done here. That's not going to change so why waste time getting all ranty and upset about it. 

Because there is a difference between "I have an opinion. Now I share it" and "Immagonna f*ck someone up, and I don't care who, RIGHT NOW, because I'm pissed off, oight?!!?"

No one is going to f*ck up anyone and Link is certainly not going to be ruined, stop being a drama queen.

Misrepresent this all you like, make up excuses for people all you like (you're very good at that) but ultimately it's just a difference in opinion which you seem to be incapable of dealing with. Link is most welcome to contact me publicly or privately to talk about this, just as Craig was before. He doesn't need you playing self righteous defender of the weak, just as Craig didn't

Given the people who are getting all hot under the collar now are the same people who were getting all preachy when backers started getting irate about ICP2 progress (you really had your collective heads buried up your arses on that one) I think I'll stick to my own analysis of the appropriate action here. 

 

[moxie]

Of course you are. And we will have opinions on that. That's how the internet works, you know.

Still, I don't see where I'm "making up excuses"? I'm asking you whether there is any other substance to you wanting to sue than "Because I want to sue someone, and Link is the only one I can sue" - That is, whether you actually have any facts that points to Link having done anything to cause this whole thing (apart from not saying "No, and f*ck off" to Craig at the start of it all). So far, I haven't seen any except (what I consider lame excuses): random conspiratorial mumblings and a weak hope that it might "bring the truth into light". When asked what information you want, apart from what is already publicly very well known, you reply with things like "Yeah, but Link should repeat that again" or "He should come clean with where the money went and to what accounts!", which, despite what comradekingu believes, is exactly what one cannot say if one hopes to be able to go the legal way against Craig. Making public details about inter-company economic transfers would be construed as damaging to the other part (Craig, in this case). Reasonable or not - Any lawyer worth his salt on Craigs side would make damn sure that this was nailed all over the proceedings. 

And it is not about the money - Exophase has offered to reimburse rl7298. So far I haven't seen him taken up on this - it is purely out of spite. Which would make sense if the target was the reponsible party, but when it isn't? I just don't get what you expect to get out of this except the feeling to "have done something" no matter what and to whom. I.e. quite exactly what shlee was getting at.

 

[rl7298]

I can tell you exactly what went on here, it's pretty easy:

1. Link funded Product 3 LLC to gather the funds for Craigs iControlPad 2 production.

2. After successful funding, Link sent some money to my company (to fulfill the PCB production and buy all the needed parts) and some to Craig (to fullfill the case production and buy the needed parts as well as to handle shipping within Europe). He only kept the money needed for the shipments within US. I don't know that, but the designer (Michael Weston) has probably been paid to do his job as well.

3. The bare PCBs have been produced, 100 have been populated, the parts are lying around at the company. That part is finished. Nothing has been heard from Craig what happened to the case and / or the money.

4. Therefore, the full thing has been cancelled. The production company is currently trying to sell the remaining parts. I've got approx. 10,000 EUR left for the production run, which will then be transferred back to Link together with the money for the sold parts (whenever they have been sold...)

That's what went on.

It has already been posted.

And weekly updates wouldn't change anything, as I doubt Link will hear anything else from Craig at all anymore, and as long as the parts haven't been sold, there's nothing to be updated as well.

Your legal action will bring nothing new to the public - it will make public if Link did any fraud, but as far as I know he didn't - he simply hasn't been delivered with the ordered iCP2s by iControlPad Ltd. in UK.

A legal action against Link will not bring to the public whatever Craig did - and that's the issue.

Is there any particular reason why the money would be transferred back to link after the parts are sold? I ask since Link seems to be directing everything to Craig right now. (I know I wouldn't want to send funds to Craig, but it just seems to be strange when Link doesn't want to have anything to do with it.) I thought iControlpad LLC was owned by Craig, which is supposedly handling "refunds".