I quit my job to go full time Indie

[commander-beef]

"OP Community dont want to pay for software just for sake to keep alive indie dev"

The only way to show love is if the entire community throws money at every single indie dev that comes along?
Ok, fine, if that's the definition you're working with then I will agree, there is no love from OP for indie devs.


I disagree with your definition, but if that's the one you want to use so be it.


What community does have love for indie devs then, might I ask? Does such a thing exist? Is it even possible for such a thing to exist? Does just no one anywhere love indie devs?

well, KICKSTARTER project shows that concept and right attitude sells stuff and creates opportunities. 

To sum up, if we create space for indie dev [give money for sustain indie studios], we will get indie games. As simple as that. 

If the donation fund works for OP preorders, it might workout for Indie Games. Getting money pot/Bounty for a dev to release a indie game for OP. Are we tried this concept yet? Nope..

For example the game: Retro City Rampage

Developer: Bryan, just one dev

If he wants 1000$ for a port RCR to OP, will You support it?

 

[WizardStan]

well, KICKSTARTER project shows that concept and right attitude sells stuff and creates opportunities.

Kickstarter exists for the sole purpose of giving money to startups. If you are on kickstarter then it is effectively guaranteed that you have contributed to something. That isn't even close to a comparison, but I will grant that, yes, such a community where love for indie devs exists, when it is created for that specific purpose and under the definition that the only way to show love is by giving money.

To sum up, if we create space for indie dev [give money for sustain indie studios], we will get indie games. As simple as that.

THERE AREN'T ENOUGH USERS TO SUPPORT A SINGLE PERSON let alone an entire studio. What you are proposing is literally impossible, short of asking every user to pay hundreds of dollars extra for the "privilege" of telling Indie devs that they're appreciated, not because the devs contributed something worthwhile, simply for existing.

 

[commander-beef]

To sum up, if we create space for indie dev [give money for sustain indie studios], we will get indie games. As simple as that.

THERE AREN'T ENOUGH USERS TO SUPPORT A SINGLE PERSON let alone an entire studio. What you are proposing is literally impossible, short of asking every user to pay hundreds of dollars extra for the "privilege" of telling Indie devs that they're appreciated, not because the devs contributed something worthwhile, simply for existing.

I'll paste it again, because i was editing a previous post: 

If the donation fund works for OP preorders, it might workout for Indie Games. Getting money pot/Bounty for a dev to release a indie game for OP. Are we tried this concept yet? Nope..

For example the game: Retro City Rampage

Developer: Bryan, just one dev

If he wants 1000$ for a port RCR to OP, will You support it [the community] by paying a small sums, and for watching the porting progress for OP? 

Many indie games are build on top of SDL + free libs, so it makes perfect port for OP, and realtively cheap in execution for indie dev.   

There are many 1-person devs out there that call itself Indie 'Studio'... 

 

[NearTao]

What we need is a developer who doesn't need the financial aspect of a game release to show interest in developing for the platform.  There are few examples of this on the Pandora at this time.  Though I will say that the crap game competition is interesting... it isn't exactly a compelling way to attract quality games.

We have plenty of ports, but few 'pandora' only games/applications.  There has been lots of talk from people who want to 'play' at indie development, but it just hasn't happened.

Perhaps the two important questions...

1) What are the benefits to an Indie developer for developing on/for the Pandora specifically (as opposed to developing someplace else then porting over)?

2) What is the interest/involvement from the Pandora community to have Indie developer involvement (as opposed to just playing new games on a PSP/Vita/DS/3DS/phone...)?

 

[WizardStan]

If he wants 1000$ for a port RCR to OP, will You support it [the community] by paying a small sums, and for watching the porting progress for OP?

Ok, one second you were talking about someone making a living off of sales, now you're talking about just $1000 for a port. Is that all that's needed? Is $1000 the magic number where the community can be said to "love indie devs"?Because before I answer the question I need to know for sure that the goal posts won't change again.

 

[commander-beef]

What we need is a developer who doesn't need the financial aspect of a game release to show interest in developing for the platform.  There are few examples of this on the Pandora at this time.  Though I will say that the crap game competition is interesting... it isn't exactly a compelling way to attract quality games.

I created this compo to check how community will react to compo without prizes, and without "carrot effect". The dev should have fun while deving something and this is all about "Crap Compo".

If he wants 1000$ for a port RCR to OP, will You support it [the community] by paying a small sums, and for watching the porting progress for OP?

Ok, one second you were talking about someone making a living off of sales, now you're talking about just $1000 for a port. Is that all that's needed? Is $1000 the magic number where the community can be said to "love indie devs"?
Because before I answer the question I need to know for sure that the goal posts won't change again.

It depends of what kind of dev we want to attract. 6000 OP Users Count will not be forever, there will be more with P2. Eventually if there will be 12000-20000 p2 or more in the wild it might be reasonable for indie dev to joun the club, but firstly we need to keep indie devs attracted by money..

 

[kuru]

To sum up, if we create space for indie dev [give money for sustain indie studios], we will get indie games. As simple as that.

THERE AREN'T ENOUGH USERS TO SUPPORT A SINGLE PERSON let alone an entire studio. What you are proposing is literally impossible, short of asking every user to pay hundreds of dollars extra for the "privilege" of telling Indie devs that they're appreciated, not because the devs contributed something worthwhile, simply for existing.

I'll paste it again, because i was editing a previous post: 

If the donation fund works for OP preorders, it might workout for Indie Games. Getting money pot/Bounty for a dev to release a indie game for OP. Are we tried this concept yet? Nope..

For example the game: Retro City Rampage

Developer: Bryan, just one dev

If he wants 1000$ for a port RCR to OP, will You support it [the community] by paying a small sums, and for watching the porting progress for OP?

So you do say we should give devs free money. Mkay. Heard about how devs have to pay money and meet dozens of criteria to release stuff on Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft consoles? If a dev is really interested in harvesting money for a port - those things community members here do for free all the time - apart from the selling price of the software itself, then they can always go kickstarter - edit: or even plainly ask about it -, can't they?

The piece of flesh I recently cut off my finger knifing Knödelbrot into submission definitely shows more love for a reasonable discussion than you do.

 

[commander-beef]

oh, lets cut the crap.. because our ideas are not compatible.

 

[WizardStan]

It depends of what kind of dev we want to attract. 6000 OP Users Count will not be forever, there will be more with P2. Eventually if there will be 12000-20000 p2 or more in the wild it might be reasonable for indie dev to joun the club, but firstly we need to keep indie devs attracted by money..

Ok, so the amount we should be willing to pay to show our love is a function of how many users there are. $1000 for 6000 install means we put that function at about 1/6, correct? So as long as 17% of users each pay $1 a month, "OP loves indie devs"?
Here's the other issue: the pre-order donation queue is currently raising a little less than $1000 a month. Let's go generous and make it an even $1000. Suppose that all devs wanted $1000 for a port. Using the same rate of donations we could solicit one developer a month to port their game/application to the Pandora.

How do we decide which developer to choose?

 

[commander-beef]

It depends of what kind of dev we want to attract. 6000 OP Users Count will not be forever, there will be more with P2. Eventually if there will be 12000-20000 p2 or more in the wild it might be reasonable for indie dev to joun the club, but firstly we need to keep indie devs attracted by money..

Ok, so the amount we should be willing to pay to show our love is a function of how many users there are. $1000 for 6000 install means we put that function at about 1/6, correct? So as long as 17% of users each pay $1 a month, "OP loves indie devs"?

Here's the other issue: the pre-order donation queue is currently raising a little less than $1000 a month. Let's go generous and make it an even $1000. Suppose that all devs wanted $1000 for a port. Using the same rate of donations we could solicit one developer a month to port their game/application to the Pandora.


How do we decide which developer to choose?

Most promising one isnt reasonable? Of course only donators will vote, the more You pay [donate], more vote points you'll get.

But not every indie dev want 1000$. Im sure some indie's will not take much money, if it will be straight port. 

BTW. 

There was very successful bounty-projects in haiku scene that JUST works [to port even GPL things for big cash].

 

[NearTao]

What we need is a developer who doesn't need the financial aspect of a game release to show interest in developing for the platform.  There are few examples of this on the Pandora at this time.  Though I will say that the crap game competition is interesting... it isn't exactly a compelling way to attract quality games.

I created this compo to check how community will react to compo without prizes, and without "carrot effect". The dev should have fun while deving something and this is all about "Crap Compo".

Oh totally understood, and honestly I love the idea!  I've been trying to get my crummy game into .pnd'able shape without the code looking like garbage.  But... maybe I should consider that is part of the point

 

[WizardStan]

Most promising one isnt reasonable? Of course only donators will vote, the more You pay [donate], more vote points you'll get.

Ok, this leads to further questions: how do we even decide what to vote on? There are literally thousands of indie games developed every year, many of them are very very good, who is deciding first what games to make a short list for voting? Who is responsible for approaching the devs and even seeing if it is possible?Suppose that month after month only things that you have no care for are ported. Would you be remiss to simply stop contributing, knowing that the community is voting for things you don't want? And by that extension, suppose you are contributing for a few months because there is one game you really really want ported, and when it is ported is it ok for you to then stop contributing or is there some kind of honour-binding to keep you contributing to the dev fund?

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

To help indie devs on the Pandora not to live under the bridge, how about indie devs create really awesome games exclusively for the Pandora and charge $200 or more for each game?  That's how Neo-Geo did. People paid for crazy money for Neo-Geo games

 

[WizardStan]

To help indie devs on the Pandora not to live under the bridge, how about indie devs create really awesome games exclusively for the Pandora and charge $200 or more for each game?

sssshhhh, you're skipping right to the end. We need to build up to that point first

 

[commander-beef]

Most promising one isnt reasonable? Of course only donators will vote, the more You pay [donate], more vote points you'll get.

Ok, this leads to further questions: how do we even decide what to vote on? There are literally thousands of indie games developed every year, many of them are very very good, who is deciding first what games to make a short list for voting? Who is responsible for approaching the devs and even seeing if it is possible?
Suppose that month after month only things that you have no care for are ported. Would you be remiss to simply stop contributing, knowing that the community is voting for things you don't want? And by that extension, suppose you are contributing for a few months because there is one game you really really want ported, and when it is ported is it ok for you to then stop contributing or is there some kind of honour-binding to keep you contributing to the dev fund?

Lets get this "community army" people and ask indie dev firstly via email. If indie will be interested, we will put indie studio on "Proposal List in This Month". 

Then we will see how the prices for port will oscillating. Then we could decide is it reasonable to do such a bounty. Without asking we will newer know how i could looke like and how much we need to invest in a port.. 

I have a felling that im talking about 1 person dev sudios ports and You want to get EA to OP grounds [with NFS port] :/ 

 

[WizardStan]

Then we will see how the prices for port will oscillating. Then we could decide is it reasonable to do such a bounty. Without asking we will newer know how i could looke like and how much we need to invest in a port..

So why not do that then? Contact some devs and find out what it would cost to port, and then make a post about it and see if there's any interest. Seems to me that you're going about the whole thing backwards, saying that there's "no love" because no one is giving money to indie devs but really there just haven't been any investigations into what is practical.You've changed gears again anyway. First you were talking about indie devs just showing up and being given money simply because they have chosen to support the Pandora, now you're talking about actively going out and soliciting devs to port their games and applications to the Pandora. These are two distinct things and one may garner more interest than the other, but if they both equate to "love" in your mind then we should do the one which gains the most traction.

 

[commander-beef]

Then we will see how the prices for port will oscillating. Then we could decide is it reasonable to do such a bounty. Without asking we will newer know how i could looke like and how much we need to invest in a port..

So why not do that then? Contact some devs and find out what it would cost to port, and then make a post about it and see if there's any interest. Seems to me that you're going about the whole thing backwards, saying that there's "no love" because no one is giving money to indie devs but really there just haven't been any investigations into what is practical.
You've changed gears again anyway. First you were talking about indie devs just showing up and being given money simply because they have chosen to support the Pandora, now you're talking about actively going out and soliciting devs to port their games and applications to the Pandora. These are two distinct things and one may garner more interest than the other, but if they both equate to "love" in your mind then we should do the one which gains the most traction.

How much community wants to get indie games on OP? It just depends in many ways from Community. I just show how it might be look like. This is a concept [and still untested], there might be many other ways. Im not saying that theres no other ways. And instead of arguing, just to be the part of community thats actually tries to do something to help getting indie there. 

Thats why i stated thats no love for indie devs..

And what makes you think i didnt ask any dev? I actually contacted 3 indie devs, that were kind enough to take a look on boards and repo since few days. Im not sure how it will end, but if i get second reply i'm sure i'll post some info here.

 

[WizardStan]

actually tries to do something to help getting indie there

Have you seen the repo? It is full of indie games. Members are constantly doing everything they can to get more indie games ported. If it were just about getting indie devs and games on board then the Pandora would be swimming in love, but it isn't: you have defined love as a function of how much money is to be made.Suppose $1000 is raised every month, enough to convince one dev to dedicate a week to tweak their code and recompile it for the Pandora. In the meantime, ptitSeb and Pickle have ported a combined total of 87.3 games. Why is there more love in that one game which cost $1000 to port then there is in all the games that ptitSeb, Pickle, and all the other prolific porters produced?

 

[commander-beef]

5 indie commercial games, in repo maybe?

Why is there more love in that one game which cost $1000 to port then there is in all the games that ptitSeb, Pickle, and all the other prolific porters produced?

Because Indie Dev's are not releasing source for free [we're not mixing OSS with indie right?], and thats why bounty $$ might help OP to get very unique indie games. 

 

[WizardStan]

Because Indie Dev's are not releasing source for free

Not all of them, true. Are you saying that the only games worth playing are the ones you can only get in binary format?