I Feel Down

[SomeGuy99]

And that is the origin of the GP32x forums WHATS YOUR ORDER NUMBER??!! Meme. Join us in a fortnight for the explanation on 2 months™...

FTFY

 

[Viral18]

^ Thanks

 

[mali]

Nothing's happened here, move along please.

 

[SomeGuy99]

He had a name, and that man's name was Borgqueenx.

 

[fusion_power]

There is no dream machine.

I'm sure, Apple Fanboys will tell us the opposite. :lol:

Yes, it's the same hardware - but games significantly have been improved. The hardware was way better used.
Same for Amiga, C64, Genesis, etc. Just compare games like PacMan to Turrican. Same hardware, different time.

Early PSX games looked like crap. Final Fantasy VII? Great game, aweful 3D graphics, compared to FFVIII or FFIX.

Very true. Each console has a huge Quality difference between the first games and the last ones. Maybe only in Graphics Quality (Super Mario and Mario 64 were early games BUT great games too) but I'm sure, if the Devs can manage to use the Hardware Features of the Pandora, things really get interesting. At the Moment we still have alot "Software only" stuff and without the new Kernel, better Drivers and Access to NEON/DSP 'n Stuff the Pandora will not get the attention that she deserves.

And we already have alot of Software. so there is no slow-down or anything in SW Development. No reason to feel down really.
The Devs just have to improve more of the existing Stuff then rushing out new Stuff. How many Media Players do we have at the Moment? - Quite alot for this short time. Are they optimized and run fast/accelerated/HW Mode? I guess not one of them.
But the Time will come where it will work, at least I hope so. We have the Hardware so it would be stupid not to use every Part of it (including the Mic! :lol: )

Maybe more devs can work together like I've seen in case of the N64 and PSX Emulator. This could really help instead of everyone makes his own stuff. QUALITY always should stay oder QUANTITY.

 

[Viral18]

I'm sure, Apple Fanboys will tell us the opposite. :lol:

Apple Fanboys *shudders*. My entire BA course I'm on consists of Apple fanboys, telling me how much of a 'Dream Machine' bloody Apples are... People I've linked to the Pandora have told me "duude, why don't you just get an iPhone". Apple is a cult, I'm sure of it

 

[chaosmage]

So I got my Pandora (one of the 7 nubless ones Craig offered) on Friday. The wait from the email saying that it was inbound until I got it was probably the third most excruciating wait of my life (this coming from a guy with two kids). Since I got it, I have:

• Played: Mario 64, Robotron 64 at fullspeed
• Played Goldeneye, StarFox 64, Revolt, and Zelda:OoT Master Quest at a playable speed (at 500mhz, even)
• Noticed that Starcraft 64 and Blast Corps doesn't work yet (aw)
• Got my Elements game loaded and noticed it is running TONS faster than on my n810 - yikes! Python must be hardware accelerated or something, because honestly a jump from 400mhz to 500mhz wouldn't explain it.
• Got lots of work done on my Elemental game (the evolution of Elements) - it's very playable, I'll release it soon
• Demoed said Elemental game for a few folks who were glued to the device playing the game until I forcibly took it back
• Played tons of Genesis, NES, and SNES games at full speed. Awesome. So awesome.
• Got my Ur-Quan save files moved over from my n810 - man that was a pain, but in the process I...
• Learned a ton about Linux - this will be the device that causes me to switch to Linux.
• Watched a bunch of videos on it - most run flawlessly, it's the ones that are significantly bigger than the screen that stutter.
• Various web browsing - I look forward to wifi getting better, it's not as reliable as my n810 yet.
• Downloaded more PNDs than I have had time to try out!
• Run at 800Mhz with no problem.
• Played some GBA games at a very playable speed - the screen is the PERFECT resolution to play these. Street Fighter Alpha 3 plays at full speed with sound at 800mhz.
• Used the USB port to: transfer files from my PC, n810, USB stick, cellphone, and external harddrive. 8+2gb is a lot of space for roms and whatnot. It's nice to be able to consolidate them ALL onto one device that can play them.
• Managed to drain the battery to near 10% every single day (yeah, it's only 10 hours of use. I realllly use it)
• Fit it in the pocket of every pair of pants/shorts I've worn.
• Listened to music on it through headphones... VERY NICE (Audacious for the win, by the way)

Only a few complaints:

• The aforementioned wifi issues... it doesn't stay connected very well. But it will connect and work for a while. ++This will probably be fixed via software eventually, I'm not worried++
• If you hibernate the device (flick the power button), close the case, then open the case, the screen comes back on. But it is still running at hibernate speed. I just thought it was not coming out of hibernate correctly. Now I know to flick the power button again when I open it, but for a while I was actually rebooting it constantly because I thought hibernate was broken. ++Again, just a software fix++
• I miss the backlit buttons of the n810 for use in the dark. Not a major issue (the screen is bright enough to light the keys a bit if you tilt the screen) but it does bug me a bit. Minor.
• I'd prefer a slick screen... this screen feels somewhat frosted... I wonder if that has to do with my painted stylus, though. Also minor.
• One bad pixel on the screen. Meh, on a 800x480 screen it is barely noticeable.
• The STYLUS is painted? Really? It is very stiff to pull out of the case. =( This is annoying, I hope it is addressed.
• My nubs are a bit wonky (Yeah, I know, I bought it as a nubless device. More on this in the plus side...)
• Not a fan of the triggers much, but I'm getting used to them. They remind me of the US Saturn controller triggers, which were a bit stiff and clicky. Ah well. Probably related to the triggers being painted.
• Yeah, my screen bezel bulges slightly and the lid has that small gap when closed, but neither of these things bother me.

But on the plus side:

• Very sturdy little device that weighs very little. I'm so glad of the clamshell, I don't need a sleeve or anything to protect the device in my pocket.
• Very fast and responsive, silent, and runs totally cool. The only thing that seems to warm it up is my own body temp.
• The buttons and dpad are AMAZING. As good if not better than the Sega Saturn pads (I should know, I own more than 12 Saturn pads...)
• Lots of software to play with
• It's friggin' open! Wow, this has been a dream compared to the n810 (which is pretty open as devices go!) because it is actually a full desktop environment where NO attempt has been made to obfuscate or hide stuff from the user except where you'd expect it to be (hiding hidden folders in the file manager - until you go into the file manager's options and turn that part off...)
• It has nearly replaced my n810. It will replace it once the wifi issue is resolved.
• The nubs pretty much work... most of the time. The left nub is usually fine, but sometimes has trouble with down. Means I can actually play N64 games. The right nub... very unreliable. I was able to play Robotron 64 with it, but I don't like using it for mouse buttons at all. Anyway... if the left nub's semi-unreliability is considered a 'bad' nub, I am very optimistic of the quality of the nubs my eventual 'normal' unit.
• The PND system is AWESOME. I love it. When there are some files that need to be placed in the right spot, it can be tricky, but the fact that I don't have to install stuff, and it all gets to live on my humongous SD cards is fantastic.
• I love the dual SD slots and the volume knob. Transferring files from SD card to SD card is so handy, and the volume knob is soooo much easier to use than a software volume or crappy volume buttons.

All in all... it's better than either my n810 or my oqo (when it was working). The oqo was MUCH heavier and bulkier. It got real hot, had a noisy fan, wasn't clamshell, ran Windows, and had about 4 hours of life on the extended battery. =p The Pandora OS feels smoother and more responsive than the oqo and the n810. The n810 and oqo seem to lock up on apps far too often, and the Pandora never seems to. As long as I'm not in hibernate mode (14mhz!) everything seems to move nice and smooth.

Since the Pandora arrived, I haven't used my desktop or n810 except to transfer files over. I've got a decent camera, I'll get some video up soonishly.

EDIT: I guess I'm just trying to say: Hang in there, it's totally worth it, the Pandora is teh awesome.

 

[j6cubic]

There is no dream machine.

I'm sure, Apple Fanboys will tell us the opposite. :lol:

If by "dream machine" you mean "fairly good" then I guess MBPs qualify. Well, except for the low number of USB ports and the positively shitty screens of the unibody 13" MBP (hello, ghosting). The build quality's pretty good though and Apple has a very nice power connector. Oh, and my iPod touch was really worth its price (30 EUR through a promo offer).

If by "dream machine" you mean "awesome but not necessarily portable" I guess you'll need to restrict yourself to the desktop and build a Hackintosh. Or be rich enough to drop insane amounts of money on a Mac Pro and an absurdly large Apple Cinema Display (the size of which is only matched by the size of its price tag).

If you mean anything resembling a portable gaming machine... Does a Nintendo DS with an Apple sticker qualify? I mean, Apple really sucks at non-casual portable gaming. The only things I'd imagine iOS devices to be good at would be TBSes and adventures and neither are common on the platform.


I'm probably not a fanboy but I realized I'm a Machead when I noticed I had just put in an order for an iPod just because it was cheap. Pretty decent PDA, though, even if my old Palm Vx had better games.

 

[Iorgy77]

Thank you chaosimage. Your post is the best I have read on these forums in the past few days and has somehow cheered me up.

 

[DaveC]

I'm tempted to stop visiting these forums, a lack of definite updates and any worthwhile progress is really getting me down.

Ian

I think allot of it is because the few heavy hitters like Notaz are all tied up doing OS stuff (No Picodrive updates etc). Exophase has Temper, the best PC-engine emu ever but has hit a snag with WiFi and won't release. Pickle? I am not sure maybe OS stuff. Skeezix never has much time. Maybe devs are just getting bored of porting to various gadgets? I don't know.

To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

Then there are ports you just think would be easy to do and would be available like GPsP (that would actually run GBA fullspeed with no overclock or frameskip) and the GP2X/Wiz fast MAME version. Again it is early so that probably is the explanation.

I guess it is just early. I guess that could be a consolation for having to wait. By the time you can get a unit maybe the software will be more polished. The hardware has tons of potential. CPU speed isn't everything and the Pandora control layout and design has an advantage over all of the phones and netbooks out there.

 

[Tom`]

I'm tempted to stop visiting these forums, a lack of definite updates and any worthwhile progress is really getting me down.

Ian

I don't have a Pandora yet.

As far as I can see, there's been a fair bit of progress, and even non-programmers could pitch in and create PNDs for programs that are already in the Ångström repository.

But I don't have a Pandora yet.

Then there are ports you just think would be easy to do and would be available like GPsP (that would actually run GBA fullspeed with no overclock or frameskip) and the GP2X/Wiz fast MAME version, but I haven't even heard anyone was doing it.

With respect to gpSP, there are a few reasons: first, Exophase is not interested in working on it. That said, I believe the source is available (and I don't see why Exophase wouldn't give access to the code to someone who was willing and had the skills to port it). Second, it's really a very complex emulator (uses a dynamic recompiler), and probably hits the hardware directly to do some stuff.

Exophase is really an amazing programmer - we're lucky to have people of his caliber here. notaz, zodttd, DJWillis... most of them are tied up with other things, and wizards like them don't grow on trees. I'm sure the situation will improve as more Pandoras ship - remember, by the latest estimates only 600 Pandoras have shipped, mostly to non-developers.

 

[Exophase]

Exophase has Temper, the best PC-engine emu ever but has hit a snag with WiFi and won't release.

You've got the story all wrong. It's more like the wifi core is working fine, I just need a few more days to get the GUI in place and polish up a couple things and it'll be ready for release. Lately I've been busy with other things and this is the sort of stuff I'm not enthusiastic about doing, so it takes a little longer than usual. I'll also be out of town this Friday and weekend. But it's really close to being released, don't think that it's on some kind of indefinite hold.

To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc.

And this is why I don't rush a port out, to get simple usability concerns like this taken care of.

Re: gpSP - there are like three people looking at it, it's just kind of tricky to get working. notaz could probably do it with his eyes closed, but his plate is super full right now. As said, I'm definitely not working on it - this isn't just a matter of being lazy or stubborn; since I'm actually really serious about doing another GBA emulator I see working on something like gpSP as in direct conflict to that. Time is better spent on the longer term but more meaningful investment, and I don't want to exactly write two competing pieces of software.

 

[DaveC]

Exophase has Temper, the best PC-engine emu ever but has hit a snag with WiFi and won't release.

You've got the story all wrong. It's more like the wifi core is working fine, I just need a few more days to get the GUI in place and polish up a couple things and it'll be ready for release. Lately I've been busy with other things and this is the sort of stuff I'm not enthusiastic about doing, so it takes a little longer than usual. I'll also be out of town this Friday and weekend. But it's really close to being released, don't think that it's on some kind of indefinite hold.

And this is why I don't rush a port out, to get simple usability concerns like this taken care of.

Ok, last I heard wifi was holding it up.

Actually for the GUI your was one of the easier ones to use. You seem to be at the other end, opposite of port-and-run, you want to release perfect but that takes allot longer. Not a bad thing I suppose, just hopefully it isn't like months away.

 

[hdonk]

...
To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

I'm trying to get the QT front end for CaPrICe done, but I seem to have taken over porting Firefox and Comix. If you'd rather do them I'll get right back on that UI...

 

[DaveC]

...
To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

I'm trying to get the QT front end for CaPrICe done, but I seem to have taken over porting Firefox and Comix. If you'd rather do them I'll get right back on that UI...

That reminds me of other thing. Some of these interfaces rely heavily on linux, window managers and other external bloat. I think that menus should be self contained so that they will work no matter what you are using. It is conceivable that a version of minimenu for example could be released in the future that is fast booting without all of the linux bloat.

Does your frontend work with a d-pad or does it NEED to use the touchscreen? That is something to consider.

 

[jdbye]

You made a lot of good points, and just staying away for a while definitely makes the wait much easier. I waited a long time before I could get a GP2X (no credit card, only PayPal, which none of the online stores selling the GP2X that I found took), though it wasn't the same kind of wait. But I kind of just forgot about the GP2X for a while. Eventually though a local online store started selling the GP2X so I ordered it from there with COD since I didn't have a credit card at that time. I already paid for the Pandora, so I know I'll get it, but being unsure about exactly when and knowing it'll take at least 3 months is slightly frustrating.
I can wait, though I'm far from the most patient person in the world, in fact I'm rather impatient, but I know I'll get it and I know it'll be awesome, and that's what matters, if I keep thinking of not knowing when I'm going to get it, it makes the wait worse, so it's better to just concentrate on the good things.
The Pandora might end up replacing my laptop on the go - but I'll have to try it first to decide if it can replace my laptop or not. However it's definitely looking great so far, and built in gaming controls is something my laptop can't offer, nor do I want to lug a USB controller around with it.

Of course, how bad the wait is for you depends on what you want it for. The Pandora can already do more than I originally expected of it when it was first announced. I never thought it would have a full desktop, I just wanted it for N64/PSX emulation and older. Now I want it for video playback too, but that's not really important to me. It's cool that the Pandora runs Firefox (not to mention all the other desktop apps it runs), it certainly has potential to replace a laptop. It can't really do anything that my laptop + a USB controller can't (which is one of the reasons I can wait), but it's a hell of a lot smaller and has about 3 times as much battery life as both my laptop batteries combined, plus it's a lot easier to pick up and play anytime.

And about dev units not being put to use - they still have a chance to redeem themselves (or maybe they've been secretly working on something), but if they really have no plans to code anything for the Pandora they should give the hardware to someone who will.

But yeah, if you're impatient, it might not be a good idea to read the forums every day. I'm trying as hard as I can to resist but I'm addicted to Pandora news

Somewhat off-topic: This forum is so active it's ridiculous, I love it. That probably means there's a lot of interest in the Pandora, hurry up and build those Pandoras before everyone gives up! I know the factory is slowing you down, but as long as you do everything you can to speed up production. I'm sure development will be a lot more active once more than just a few hundred people get their hands on one - and that's key for the success of the Pandora.

 

[Adventus]

no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.)

As was mentioned in the mupen thread, for emulators that work with X11 I'm pretty sure you can make a script which sets the CPU speed and map it to a button. I'm sure if you ask for one, some one will make it pretty easy.

To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

If you could code you might realise:
1. IMO Making menus is possibly the most boring thing a coder can do. Any lower level programmer (AKA someone who makes an emulator) who is working for free would much prefer to spend their time using their talents.
2. It's not that easy. Most menus are based around QT/GTK (which are large libraries) and can be really messy. They also impose a standard input mechanism designed for PC, which is why you might need to use the mouse for some things. It may not even be possible to changes this without modifying GTK.
3. Just because it worked on GP2X doesn't mean it'll be a super quick port to Pandora.

Another issue specific to mupen, is I'm not sure if i want to modify the mupen core (including GUI, rom loading, etc) very much, i mean it seems pretty likely that Ari64's work will be integrated into the PC mupen64plus and then we could have "official" releases and not fork the project. Ofcourse i've already forked gles2n64 so i have no qualms messing with it.

That reminds me of other thing. Some of these interfaces rely heavily on linux, window managers and other external bloat. I think that menus should be self contained so that they will work no matter what you are using. It is conceivable that a version of minimenu for example could be released in the future that is fast booting without all of the linux bloat.

I think this is a bad idea. The whole point of the "linux bloat" is to give a standard interface to the programs.

 

[1magus]

I would like to say I tried a netbook that could do these emulators and everything and all though it could run Windows games fine it was not what I had in mind as a Pandora replacement. I ended up taking it back because doing these tasks brought down battery life by a lot, I could not fit it in my pocket and no gaming controls lol.

 

[Evil Star]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw[/youtube]

 

[Bosbeetle]

Where are the twelve year old snotty nerds that start learning code and bringing out crappy games. We must nourish the future generation, help them set up dev environments and let them learn by falling and standing up again. These are the guys that eventially will bring us the awesome software! the ones that will make a pandora emulator for the xbox2048 and the ones that will baffle us with insane ideas.