Hope it's the right decision...

[Swordfish II]

What's it with you Linux nörds and your sometimes utterly ridiculous anti-Windows hyperbole. A working installation of an older Windows simply increases the set of applications and games available to you while you're on the go. So it makes sense. In the end, that's what a swiss pocket knife is all about, non?

First, I have and use a windows computer. Second have you used any windows CE programs?

I have on a Jornada 720 and a Dell Axim x5 as well as a couple work phones. Windows CEs problem is that there weren't many programs developed for it, the programs that were developed for it were usually pay apps, and finally those programs weren't very good. But then with 32ish or 64 Ram total, they didn't have much to work with.

To say that the minimal, simple programs from Windows CE would be at all useful when we already have complete versions like libreoffice is quite a stretch, and that is what i was trying to convey. Now windows 95 or higher would have useful stuff.

I never did find a decent game for CE, except maybe solitaire.

 

[levi]

My Psion S5 had a wicked version of touchscreen Missile Command, and IIRC that only had 8kB of RAM. It could also work on (converted) Office 6 Word or Excel files pretty effectively. I don't think lack of specs is the main reason CE had a crappy software library.

 

[Swordfish II]

Sure, CE could do docs too, and yes there were games like that.

So say we were able to get CE going on the Pandora. Would you use the CE doc editor that was last updated in 2008 and doesn't support any modern formats? Or would you use libreoffice that is current?

Just saying there is almost no benefit to porting CE.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Being a Windows 95 (Voodoo 2 compatible) game that requires something like a Pentium II with 300 MHz and 64 MB RAM for optimum performance is what makes it impossible for the Pandora I'd wager.

I would've lost a similar wager on whether my CC Pandora would be able to run Diablo 2 full speed most of the time or be able to emulate many NDS games to a highly playable level.

How much is the wager? If it's enough we'll get Notaz & Exophase on the job

 

[mius]

Second have you used any windows CE programs?

Wat. Who in the twelve hells cares about Windows CE? See below.

I have on a Jornada 720 and a Dell Axim x5 as well as a couple work phones.

The Sony Vaio P (2.13 GHz model) and an upgraded HP 200LX represent my only hands-on experience with UMPCs. The latter is, because it runs an MS-DOS 5+ application environment for ages on only two AA batteries, still quite useful for a lot of things as some MS-DOS applications are functionally still somewhat unmatched.

Now windows 95 or higher would have useful stuff.

Which is what this was all about. Something between (stripped down versions of) Windows 95 and XP, whatever runs best via ExaGear, and so on.

I would've lost a similar wager on whether my CC Pandora would be able to run Diablo 2 full speed most of the time or be able to emulate many NDS games to a highly playable level.

How much is the wager? If it's enough we'll get Notaz & Exophase on the job

Your example is a statically recompiled Windows executable of a game that prefers something like a Pentium with about 233 MHz and 64 MB RAM. In any case, these guys have already enough to do than do indulge my whining about this or that game, especially of the proprietary Windows kind, so any of my wishes becoming a reality are really just the icing on the cake.

What's much, much more important to me is a reliable UMPC that works with the type of applications I need to work with. And the Pyra, so far, is the only game in town that (seems to) deserve the UMPC descriptor as far as I'm concerned, especially since the GPD Win has not even a removable battery.

 

[TrashyMG]

Your example is a statically recompiled Windows executable of a game that prefers something like a Pentium with about 233 MHz and 64 MB RAM. In any case, these guys have already enough to do than do indulge my whining about this or that game, especially of the proprietary Windows kind, so any of my wishes becoming a reality are really just the icing on the cake.

Well to be fair even before Notaz's static recompile it was possible on a 1Ghz Pandora with Exagear Desktop + WINE...


@ingoreis video:

 

[Swordfish II]

Wat. Who in the twelve hells cares about Windows CE

Dude you need to get your eyes checked. The first post of mine that you responded to I specifically said "windows is not likely, except maybe windows CE (you know because it ran on ARM devices... Like the Pandora and Pyra) and porting that would be a mistake"

So yeah, way to argue with me about something I never said.

Wine and exagear should bring some windows games and programs to the table though

 

[mius]

Dude you need to get your eyes checked. The first post of mine that you responded to I specifically said "windows is not likely, except maybe windows CE (you know because it ran on ARM devices... Like the Pandora and Pyra) and porting that would be a mistake"

So yeah, way to argue with me about something I never said.

Here's what you said, emphasis by me:

The Pyra likely won't be able to run windows (maybe Windows CE is someone is bored enough to make it work), but really it wouldn't make sense for the Pyra to run windows even if it could.

Run Windows even if it could. Windows, not just Windows CE. Furthermore, what the fuck gave you the impression that any of the games and applications I mentioned in my posts call for Windows CE? Jesus, even the HP 200LX/DOS combo represents a productivity environment that was and is much more popular than the Jornadas. And classic CE's ARM successors are obviously a no-show when it comes to choosing a proper OS for the Pyra.

Wine and exagear should bring some windows games and programs to the table though

So, to repeat myself, that was the point all along. Proper Windows via ExaGear and Wine, etc. Otherwise I wouldn't have replied, as we are in agreement on Windows CE, and its ARM successors as well I suppose.

 

[Swordfish II]

You are dense and chose to focus on one specific part of what I said without taking in the whole context.

No point discussing this with you further

 

[rygD]

Something between (...) Windows 95 and XP

Windows Me?

Long live the HP 200LX, 100LX, etc (DOS only, thank you, but not because I am a Windows hater...that is a whole different thing).

 

[TrashyMG]

Something between (...) Windows 95 and XP

Windows Me?

Windows 2000, was what a the cool kids used in the dark times of Windows ME.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

and its ARM successors

Those "ARM successors" have a hard requirement on UEFI, which makes them just as hardware incompatible as the x86 versions - everything else is still CE based, no matter what they called it. Yes, it is indeed "CE or nothing", therefore the implicit focus on CE.

 

[SNESFAN]

Looking at it from a person who will likely be purchasing both the GPD WIN and the PYRA. Here are my likes and concerns with both devices. These are my views, likely will not be shared by everyone, I'm trying to leave just facts and less about preference or if preference hopefully the preference is a common view.

(no particular order, 4 up's 4 downs for each)

GPD WIN

Major Pros:
Real joysticks (GPD XD's were great)
Native compatibility with directx 11, OpenGL 4.3, GLES 3.0, & OpenCL 1.2 - no compatibility layers needed
Can run multiple OS's natively; Windows, Linux, and possibly other OS's (hack-in-tosh?)
64 bit compatible

Major Cons:
Bad keyboard layout in renders (talks of correcting it)
Less expandable storeage (64GB internal + up to 200GB microsd)
"Joystick Mouse mode" separate from game-pad mode via hardware switch vs soft switch on pandora and possibly pyra.
less accurate capacitive touch screen for a desktop environment which favors accuracy

Pyra

Major Pros
Storage capacity (200GB microsd + 512GB full SD + 512GB full SD + 8GB?? internal)
Great keyboard layout + game controls
Resistive touch w/ built in stylus for accuracy in desktop environment
Future upgrade ability / replaceable hardware

Major Cons
ARM linux software catalog (source code often needed for community ports) is restrictive compared to x86 windows + linux (open + closed source software compatibility often requiring no community ports)
Only native compatibility with GLES 2.0, OpenCL 1.1, & Direct3D 9 (Direct3D is not full DirectX) - requires compatiblity layers to achieve higher standards
Less adoption in chipset choice - not in as many devices with comparable chipsets in the wild restricting collaborative work on improving drivers etc.
Thicker design (less pocket friendly) - however gets some points back in having less of a total footprint (Width+Length).


speculative / subjective / temporary points
It's possible to get GPD WIN for preorder/kickstarter @ $300 USD vs a probable 500€ ($548 current conversion) preorder/kickstarter of pyra (MSRP and actual cost may vary greatly on both)
Pyra will have more targeted titles and packaging system with the option of making the device feel more like a game console + a full computer
PCSX 2 will likely run relatively well on z8500

Spoiler

higher battery life estimates on Pyra for comparable tasks (can't find ED's quotes)

 

[rygD]

Windows 2000, was what a the cool kids used in the dark times of Windows ME.

Yep, I was not one of the cool kids, and my Linux laptop install before I got that laptop was a miserable failure (not to mention I lacked confidence and competence). It worked for my needs. I played plenty of games with it. I still have the one that shipped with ME, and it now has either PC-BSD or Sabayon on it, however the keyboard is partially dead, so I haven't messed with it in a few years. After my failed Linux install it took me a while before I wanted to try messing around with things I didn't know how to do/use (this was back when I had a Solaris workstation at work, and I had a bit of help learning).

@SNESFAN Won't both have full size USB ports? While not as appealing as SD, microSD, etc. the newer smaller USB drives shouldn't be too much of a problem for pocketability (with the Pyra, at least, not sure what the back side of the Win will look like). Those should add plenty of storage. That might level the field a little (however the dual SD slots on the Pyra will be great...that should become the standard).

I just gave myself another stupid idea. Note to future rygD: stickers/decals to pretend SD slots are legacy drives to go with disk stickers for the cards. Look into drive activity LEDs.

 

[SNESFAN]

@SNESFAN Won't both have full size USB ports?.

yea, I was more going for what separates the two devices. There is obviously some convergence of features going on

Storage I don't think will be a real problem with either device though. But with the pyra you would have even less of a potential problem.

 

[mius]

You are dense and chose to focus on one specific part of what I said without taking in the whole context.

C'mon now, don't be such a stringbag pupsik, and behave. The whole context was the point, i.e. all Windows versions that could be made to work on the Pyra. Explained it multiple times, too. Not that hard to grasp for anyone with a basic command of English grammar.

Long live the HP 200LX, 100LX, etc (DOS only, thank you, but not because I am a Windows hater...that is a whole different thing).

Amen.

Those "ARM successors" have a hard requirement on UEFI, which makes them just as hardware incompatible as the x86 versions - everything else is still CE based, no matter what they called it. Yes, it is indeed "CE or nothing", therefore the implicit focus on CE.

My point about the Pyra was and is the feasibility of having an older x86 Win 32 OS on the machine, e.g. Win 95, 98, 2000, or even XP. Brought to you by ExaGear and Wine, etc. I mean... who on this board has a need for a working Windows CE on the Pyra?

GPD WIN

Major Cons:
Bad keyboard layout in renders (talks of correcting it)

Really? Good on them. Also, I know they don't want to built-in a removable battery for financial reasons, but is there any push-back on this in their community? I simply find that kind of compromise in a UMPC design incomprehensible.

 

[SNESFAN]

I know they don't want to built-in a removable battery for financial reasons, but is there any push-back on this in their community? I simply find that kind of compromise in a UMPC design incomprehensible.

I'm hoping they at least use a JST 2 pin connector for the battery like on the XD. Even if not user accessible I don't particularly feel like rewiring in a new battery when it eventually stops holding a charge quite as well.

I haven't heard too much pushback, although it was mentioned a couple times in their fundraiser.

 

[Swordfish II]

Those "ARM successors" have a hard requirement on UEFI, which makes them just as hardware incompatible as the x86 versions - everything else is still CE based, no matter what they called it. Yes, it is indeed "CE or nothing", therefore the implicit focus on CE.

Yuuuup. Wine and exagear are emulators. Not windows and the only windows that could possibly be installed is.... Drumroll CE.

 

[SNESFAN]

Wine and exagear are emulators

Wine is not an emulator

compatibility layer, similar, but different. Definitely not as good as native though.

 

[TrashyMG]

Yuuuup. Wine and exagear are emulators. Not windows and the only windows that could possibly be installed is.... Drumroll CE.

Well WINE literally isn't an emulator... as the name literally means Wine Is Not an Emulator.

First off Windows CE is ancient getting it to run on modern hardware would be near impossible, secondly you can't just get a copy of it to install.

But it's not the only ARM capable Windows, there was Windows RT and not to mention Windows 10 IOT, also really unlikely to be installable without intervention with Microsoft.