Beta Greyout

Christoph.Krn

Advanced Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
2,114
Location
Germany
I'm not a video creator, but nonetheless here are two considerations:

  • When the visual part of the video is paused (like at ~1:48), make immediately clear that this pause was not caused by technical difficulties (for instance by displaying something like a 'pause' sign in the corner that blinks twice and then stays solid until gameplay continues).
  • Either create a series of videos with one level per video, or put timestamp links to each level into the description.
Point 1: Well I figured doing the overlay would be obvious enough... did you try to adjust your flash player in that situation? (Though I agree the timing was off on the first bit, it was just how my recorded clips ended up falling together).


I will keep it in mind for the next episode though.
Hm. I haven't adjusted my player. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here, so I'm going to rephrase what I've said before: At ~1:48min in the video, Greyout's figurine will 'hang' in the air as the gameplay is paused. Because this pausing was not previously announced, people can perceive it as 'hanging' of the video's visual part for as long as none of the green scribblings are being displayed.


If you understood me correctly and/or think that it's irrelevant, just ignore what I've just written.

Point 2: I don't really see a point. But timestamps are rather easily done, so why not.
What I had in mind was that people might want to return to the video(s) to re-watch a specific scene. I can see that happen with the videos you're making here, especially the more you add references to external information sources. I think that if you do these videos right, you can help many other developers around here get into creating better video games, and as I guess you're aware, every detail counts.


By the way, if you want video beta testers for the next installment, or beta testers for the next version of Greyout, count me in if you want.
 

foxblock

Asleep
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Germany
What I had in mind was that people might want to return to the video(s) to re-watch a specific scene. I can see that happen with the videos you're making here, especially the more you add references to external information sources. I think that if you do these videos right, you can help many other developers around here get into creating better video games, and as I guess you're aware, every detail counts.
Hopefully that will be the case at some point. With a 12 minute video I think it's worth watching in full, especially as I reference things across the chapters, but chapter marks are not a big deal for me to add, so I already did that.


I am not sure whether these bundles or single level videos are the way to go, I guess I will go over my notes for the remaining levels and decide on that.


I don't really want video beta-testers as I rather improve from episode to episode with the feedback and input given, just because of the fact that rendering and uploading takes such a long time.


@Everyone: So as I am very novice on this type of thing, please don't hesitate to critique my style of commentary, video material/overlays or anything else, that's the best way for me to improve the future videos to become better (I know I have a thick accent, I am working on that :p ) - besides giving your own opinion on the advice I am giving, obviously.
 

aRTee

Still Fresh
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
15
I was thoroughly disappointed by Greyout... it's totally too short and too fun!


THANKS Foxblock!! I love it, great work!


After reading this thread, I'm now curious about the original level 2 - any chance to get that (including instructions on how to add it to my current installation)?


It would be good to have instructions on making new levels too, btw.


BTW the last level was almost too hard; I don't really like puzzle games where at some point the arcade element takes the upper hand so badly, and it's really tricky during the falling part to get to the right spot. Matter of taste I guess, but I really love the levels where you have to scratch your head and think to find the solution (and at least half of them were really like that, grand!) - more of those!!


And an extra idea: doors (pairs) that are doorways amongst themselves (as opposed to the exit doors that lead to the next level).


Like the wrapping (cool!), but between different places, not left-right or top-bottom aligned.


Also door triplets (etc): going through door 1 gets you to door 2, but entering door 2 doesn't bring you back to door 1 but to door 3; or even one way doors?


Other idea: colour change (by special apparatus) in grey zone..?


And multiplayer (on the same device!) would be great too!


BTW I'm not a gamer - greyout is actually one of the few games I play(ed) on my pandora...
 

foxblock

Asleep
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Germany
I was thoroughly disappointed by Greyout... it's totally too short and too fun!


THANKS Foxblock!! I love it, great work!


[...]


BTW I'm not a gamer - greyout is actually one of the few games I play(ed) on my pandora...
Thank you for this great response, it means a lot! :) (I have to admit, you had me with the first line though)

After reading this thread, I'm now curious about the original level 2 - any chance to get that (including instructions on how to add it to my current installation)?


It would be good to have instructions on making new levels too, btw.
Not sure what you mean with "original level 2", the first and current (publicly available) version is the one you have in the game. There is no prior one and it has been cut from the most recent version (which is in private beta testing).


A guide on how to create levels can be found here: http://pandorawiki.org/Greyout - The basic principle is still correct, but I have not updated the tables in a while and many new features are missing. (Don't be overwhelmed by the amount of data on that page, most is just tables of unit and property names you can use as a reference).

BTW the last level was almost too hard; I don't really like puzzle games where at some point the arcade element takes the upper hand so badly, and it's really tricky during the falling part to get to the right spot. Matter of taste I guess, but I really love the levels where you have to scratch your head and think to find the solution (and at least half of them were really like that, grand!) - more of those!!
I totally agree and there will be a better mix of levels in the coming version.

And an extra idea: doors (pairs) that are doorways amongst themselves (as opposed to the exit doors that lead to the next level).


Like the wrapping (cool!), but between different places, not left-right or top-bottom aligned.


Also door triplets (etc): going through door 1 gets you to door 2, but entering door 2 doesn't bring you back to door 1 but to door 3; or even one way doors?


Other idea: colour change (by special apparatus) in grey zone..?


And multiplayer (on the same device!) would be great too!
Doors can actually be created in the current version, but I haven't used that, because I haven't found a use in a level for it yet.


Wrapping to other rooms or part of the level seems rather confusing, wrapping already is now, I think I want to keep it as simple as possible.


Colour switching has been considered in the very beginning of the game, but I never implemented it and while it potentially could provide some interesting touch to the mechanic, I won't implement it now. One reason being that I consider the game feature complete and after over a year working on it I just want to get it done, another one being that it won't fit into the story of the current version (yes the final game will have somewhat of a story - nobody except me has seen it yet :eek: ).


Multiplayer is a great idea and the game just wants to be played in cooperation (like At a distance). It would fit perfectly with the story and mechanics, it even would expand the latter so one could do a few timing puzzles.


I don't have a good excuse to not implement it, but I won't, because again, I just want to get it done. After working on a small project for that long you kind of burn out, ideas are starting to become scarce and you want to move on.


The source code is open, though, everyone is free to implement new stuff (the source also has my very recent changes, with many new features, fixes, etc.): http://code.google.com/p/greyout/


So yeah, sorry I guess, those ideas are actually not bad, but the game is nearing completion, all that is missing are a few levels and some polish. I won't give an estimate on when it will be done though.


Thanks again for the comment and good ideas, I hope you will enjoy the final game as much as you did this measly "prototype".
 

aRTee

Still Fresh
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
15
Thanks for the answer.


I get your drift, and I agree that the engine is indeed done.


You're wrong about just some levels missing, almost all that are needed are missing, I need about 92 more, and I could use about 992 more I think. But I repeat myself, I already told you how much I liked your game... So thanks again!


If I ever find the time (yeah right, famous last words) I may have a go at creating levels, for now I hope someone else (anyone else) will...
 

sswam

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
1,392
The source code is open, though, everyone is free to implement new stuff (the source also has my very recent changes, with many new features, fixes, etc.): http://code.google.com/p/greyout/
Thanks for the great open source game, foxblock.


I am collecting source code at pandoria.org/src, and just added greyout. I hope this is okay with you! I figure it would be, since it's open source.


The greyout folder there is a git mirror of your svn repo, including the history.


I figure there are some advantages to collect source code for all our free PNDs, consistently in one place. (e.g. anyone can make another mirror of that)


Sam
 
Last edited by a moderator:

foxblock

Asleep
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Germany
I figure there are some advantages to collect source code for all our free PNDs, consistently in one place. (e.g. anyone can make another mirror of that)
Sure it's okay with me, I just don't see the point, since my repo is the one I link everywhere (including the pnd), it's the only one being always up-to-date and nobody really knows about your site (except for few people carefully reading this forum).


Anyway, in case I decide to delete my repo or Google is destroyed we at least have a backup on your server and vice versa.


(Btw, some people might be bothered by the fact you mirror the repo before asking/telling them about it. Even though it's open source and since you apparently make a post anyway, why not reverse the order of that and ask first?)
 

sswam

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
1,392
I think it can be useful to collect source code, for many reasons.


If you want to talk about it, come to this thread.


Debian and the other Linux distros also collect source code in one place, it's the normal thing to do when distributing free software.


In your case, you are hosting source in svn on google code, so the code is likely to remain up; but not so for many other PNDs.


In general, Pandora homebrew source code is particularly likely to get lost.


As for keeping it up to date, I'm running this script once a day at the moment. This one collects the code in the first place.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rockthesmurf

Advanced Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,113
Age
36
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
Visit site
Hi, I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I checked out Greyout for the first time this week and think it is ace. I have only got through the first 3 or 4 levels so far, but really like the game, good balance of control dexterity with puzzle solving. :)
 

foxblock

Asleep
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Germany
Hi, I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I checked out Greyout for the first time this week and think it is ace. I have only got through the first 3 or 4 levels so far, but really like the game, good balance of control dexterity with puzzle solving. :)
Thanks :)


I am currently in the process of finishing it.


I toned down the difficulty quite a bit though as most people complained about that (validly I must say), I hope you won't find the final version too easy then ;)
 

Rockthesmurf

Advanced Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,113
Age
36
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
Visit site
@foxblock: well I did another couple of levels on the weekend, I don't really have a good answer about the difficulty. I find it hard, but I find that I want to keep going back to see if I can work it out. In terms of knowing what to do (how to jump, how to respawn, how to swap characters etc.) I personally think it is really well done. I have always 'just got' what to do. I am currently on the level where you have the two characters, and there is like a two block indentation at the top of the screen, with crates you can push through to make a gap to get through. I think I have independently saved both characters, but not managed to save them both in one game yet. I'll keep at it though ;)
 

HolySmoke

Guardian Lion
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Kaub, RLP, Germany
[…]the level where you have the two characters, and there is like a two block indentation at the top of the screen, with crates you can push through to make a gap to get through. […]
Oh, I remember that one. Still don't know how it's done, just got lucky one day and it was solved.
 

sswam

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
1,392
I toned down the difficulty quite a bit though as most people complained about that
Maybe most of the people who complained complained about that - but who cares about those trolls anyway? :p


I will complain if you make it too easy! "most people" just simply loved your game and didn't complain about it at all.


You're making lots more levels, right? So can we have some levels mildly-difficult, some difficult, and some really difficult?


Maybe sprinkle about some impossible ones too, just in case someone will figure out how to solve them :)

I find it hard, but I find that I want to keep going back to see if I can work it out.
Yea, if you ask me, it should be difficult!


I reckon gravity bending ala "which way is up" / "and yet it moves" / "vvvvvv" (not rotating the world), that could be a cool addition to your game. But it's a great game already, so there's no need to adding weird new stuff like that...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rockthesmurf

Advanced Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,113
Age
36
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
Visit site
Ah, completed it today on the train! That level with the 'lifts' going the full height of the screen and grey zones inbetween surest needed a chunk of thumb dexterity on top of the problem solving!


Hoping for more levels now!
 

PokeParadox

Founder of Pirate Games - Penjin Coder
Staff member
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
6,516
Age
36
Location
UK
Website
www.projectinfinity.org.uk
Is this a teaser? I feel like this is a teaser. I feel like I'm being teased and/or being expected to wait impatiantly for something...
 
Top