Gamepark Holdings And Linux

[Winterkid]

No one's trying, cause the rest of us aren't being paranoid, the rest of us seem to be quite patient, and the DRM that you worry about is hardware mixed with binaries/closed modules that you'll never really have access to, in all likelyhood. I know if I were using DRM to allow commercial developers to use my custom hardware, I certainly wouldn't let anyone circumvent it so easily.

When they have everything needed in the kernel that needs to be in there and everything into binaries/modules, they'll probably offer the source to anyone who asks. If you are dying to get your hands on the source to weed out DRM from your unit for whatever paranoid fantasies or "secrets", then even when you HAVE all the publicly available source, you probably wont get it. And they're not likely to have listed in the public source code which binary(ies) access the DRM hardware.

I agree with Woogal, in fact, I understand wanting something REALLY badly that you almost wanna scream. I even know what it's like to wanna keep your data and your private life private, but I think what you're asking is both unrealistic and unreasonable.

 

[Cyclops]

I'm not paranoid, I am being relatistic, show me the source. I don't want DRM on the device. I'm not interested in speculating on why they won't release the source. If they are not releasing the source becuase of DRM its a disgrace. I hope your comment is a bad joke, as far as I was aware, the DRM available is on the chip. I don't want to copy the games. I do want them to be cheap, but again anyone asked for linux, anyone actively doing anything. If there is really no-one capable it becomes the time to ask who is?

BTW "unrealistic and unreasonable" have we really started thinking like that?

 

[craigix]

One of the reasons is actually to stop the chinese clone people from getting it.

 

[Hanz™]

One of the reasons is actually to stop the chinese clone people from getting it.

​

Why not just get rid of the chinese clone peoples distributers... Surely there is not really a market for a fake GP2X.

 

[Winterkid]

Problem is the company in China only answers to the chinese government who have to decide between a foreign company (GPH) and one of their own that generate tax revenues for them (The clone people, which sounds like a horror film). If I were the Chinese government, I would like to think they'd do the "right" thing, but in all likelihood, they'll take the ca$h from the cloners.

As for DRM, if you don't want it in the unit, that's just tough.

I do think asking for something I shouldn't be entitled to is beyond what I deserve, and so I'm not gonna ask. Not that I know coding, but if I did, I wouldn't expect to be entitled to the pre-official-release source code. Not any more than I would expecting to walk into a bank vault and taking my $10 right from there. You wait in line, you go to the teller you ASK for your $10, and if you're entitled (have it in your account), you get your $10.

 

[Cyclops]

One of the reasons is actually to stop the chinese clone people from getting it.

​

That was my original speculation, They have the advantage of being first, and hardware problems I think have become a thing of myth here on the forums. I've got 2 and in reality they bury the GP32, in all areas apart from software, and any monkey can see thats going to change.

I also think if they really are cloned, people will want the original, unless GPH don't think they can produce a quality product(they clearly can). In reality they are already competing with PSP,DS,Palm tops,PDA,PMP,Smartphones the list goes on, lots running linux and have opened their firmware. At least with China ripoffs they may get some benefit out of the competition, from their source. Although I can't belive China does not have its overabundance of quality linux programmers.

The reality is if they are not prepared to release the source now, what will make them want to do so in a months time, or a years time. The problem will not go away. So we are back to the question anybody doing anything. Anything at all.

 

[Winterkid]

Seems you're the only one asking the question, really.

So if you don't ask GPH, then nothing is probably happening with it. If you brought it up to them, you're likely to get the same answer those who've already asked will be given.
Sorry to be blunt, I suppose.

 

[AireTamStorm]

My interest as you can see is clearly not commercial gaming, (unless someone sends me an ASR translation patch). I don't care how its used. I don't want "secrets" on my machine. I don't particularly care why they have the delay. I want a I/we are negotiating with GPH. I am phoning them hourly, or give me your e-mail and I'll send you the source.

I read an interview with Eben Moglen, and he's GPL(no binary) is they choose to enforce it, and permissable and non-permissable stuff. The binary stuff is what they let people get away with. Its a mess basically, but picking a simple example what if I wanted to use the modules in 2.6 instead of those from 2.4, for say power management.

Why wait till the offical release, maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe I'm not sat here with 2 GP2X.

​

They're using 2.4 for a reason.... handhelds.org doesn't have a stable/functional 2.6 out yet. If my guess is right, the kernel the GP2X is using is a derivative of the handhelds.org one.

It was already compiled to support SD/SDIO ( I believe) , heavily optimized for ARM cores, optimizations for memory usage, USB OTG, etc.... so I don't see why they would take a straight 2.4 Kernel and port it. Way too much work for a single handheld.

So if you're thinking about running 2.6, you'd better check handhelds.org regularly ;- )

 

[Cyclops]

They're using 2.4 for a reason.... handhelds.org doesn't have a stable/functional 2.6 out yet. If my guess is right, the kernel the GP2X is using is a derivative of the handhelds.org one.

It was already compiled to support SD/SDIO ( I believe) , heavily optimized for ARM cores, optimizations for memory usage, USB OTG, etc.... so I don't see why they would take a straight 2.4 Kernel and port it. Way too much work for a single handheld.

So if you're thinking about running 2.6, you'd better check handhelds.org regularly ;- )

​

LOL I'm Linuevices.com and as far as I am aware it used to be common for embedded(and the term should be pretty loose here) to use the last kernel or even the generation before, but the 2.6 kernel breaks that rule, it even changes the numbering scheme . I mention 2.6 becuase of articles like this http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7751365763.html
although seriously its far from being on its own. The reality is though it could make very little difference. For me and I'm pretty sure for most linux users, we want to use the GP2X like a mini Linux computer becuase thats what it is.

Although 2.6 was not my main concern, my concern is personal fun, and self development.

Again any single individual actively doing anything, anything about Linux.

 

[woogal]

Again any single individual actively doing anything, anything about Linux.

​

Are you fucking retarded or something? I already told you earlier in this thread that people like DJWillis are working closely with GPH to try and get the source. Why don't you try reading the answers people give you instead of asking the same fucking questions over and over again.

 

[WrongEyedJesus]

Again any single individual actively doing anything, anything about Linux.

​

Are you fucking retarded or something? I already told you earlier in this thread that people like DJWillis are working closely with GPH to try and get the source. Why don't you try reading the answers people give you instead of asking the same fucking questions over and over again.

​

Being the son of a now deceased and once physically and latterly mentally disabled mother I find the phrase "fucking retarded" deeply insulting.

Please consider other people before making a wholly excessive comment on a relatively trivial subject.

 

[DJWillis]

They're using 2.4 for a reason.... handhelds.org doesn't have a stable/functional 2.6 out yet. If my guess is right, the kernel the GP2X is using is a derivative of the handhelds.org one.

Not quite correct . The GP2X uses a 2.4.25 based kernel forked off the main 2.4 ARM branch. This is more recent then some of HH.Org's kernels but is a real brew of a kernel.

In 2.6 there is no ARM branch any more, it's all in the main stream. Moving this GP2X to 2.6 is no small task but it will be a good challange .

I have posted some comments on the GPL situation on my GP2X BLOG here if anybody is interested.

 

[Cyclops]

Again any single individual actively doing anything, anything about Linux.

​

Are you fucking retarded or something? I already told you earlier in this thread that people like DJWillis are working closely with GPH to try and get the source. Why don't you try reading the answers people give you instead of asking the same fucking questions over and over again.

​

Clearly I am retarded, but I can read. In various posts it dicusses DJWillis involment in the creation of an alternative to the Linux firmware. A lordable effort, but when I see someone creating an effort, to replace linux with something else. I see a CVS with no changes, a company with a binary kernel they may release somtime in some form, and I see talk of booting to linux, then loading HH. Its all very GP32 loader. Rather than namecalling try and think why I would ignore this hearsay.

Think a little before you make aggressive posts.

 

[DJWillis]

Clearly I am retarded, but I can read. In various posts it dicusses DJWillis involment in the creation of an alternative to the Linux firmware. A lordable effort, but when I see someone creating an effort, to replace linux with something else. I see a CVS with no changes, a company with a binary kernel they may release somtime in some form, and I see talk of booting to linux, then loading HH. Its all very GP32 loader. Rather than namecalling try and think why I would ignore this hearsay.

I will resist the temptation to rise to this .

Please take a moment to read what I have posted to my BLOG. One thing I would suggest is that not everything that is happening is written blow by blow in detail to web sites and forums. It only takes a little effort to get involved in the scene and find out what the state of play is rather then expecting everything spoon fed. IRC for example is a great place to keep tabs on what is going on, the subject of the GPL source from GPH has been widely discussed in #GP2XDEV over the last few weeks.

It is also worth noting that a person CAN work on more then one project. I am involved in the raw hardware mode (HH) work and via the Open2x project I have been pursuing the GPL compliance and improvement aspects to the GP2X's Linux software environment. Lack of CVS activity does not mean a project is dead. A simple e-mail to me would have got you a detailed status update.

On the side I have also built working ARM-Linux compiler environments and ported libraries so that people could start GP2X development without having to go though that pain of getting things all setup in the 1st place. People have been doing some mad things with these tools and I am really glad to be helping get things off the ground.

 

[Cyclops]

@DjWills

I have seen your blog, and had at the time of that message. I couldn't let woogal post pass, for obvious reasons. I haven't wrote a reply, or even thought of one. I need a cup of tea, and time to digest it. I'm a post behind

BTW I've said it elsewhere these blogs are the buisness.

I have not asked to be spoonfed or anything else. I have asked a question in the forum, that I thought was reasonable, because thats one way a forum is used. The topic has been raised in various guises over the past weeks with no real answers.

GPL & Linux personally. I have an opinion not a strong one, I don't really understand it. I do understand the benefits to *me* personally. I think only a few people do know whats needed. I do know what I want.

I view the current Linux on the GP2X as an abomination, not because I believe in defending GPL. I hate it.

1) Because its not Linux. Its not open. I can't play with it, do what I want, use my GP2X as I want to. /mnt/SD fat32 *.gpe does anyone see anything wrong with this

2) Because its buggy. I expect software to have bugs in it. I expect at the "offical" launch(LOL) there to be bugs in the software. They just worry me less in linux for obvious reasons, but because GPHLinux is closed source. It bothers me more. because I know they are trying to do something difficult, with very few people.

3) Because of the DaveC effect, people are spouting off about Linux being this and that, and I want HH with no understanding, and GPH have shown them to be right. Linux on the GP2X in its current state is not so good.

4) Because its hurting GPH, and they can't see it. Closed source Linux is the worst of all worlds.

5) Because I see it as the biggest barrier to getting linux on the GP2X

I'm not frustrated, the GP2X regardless of how good it is, feels dead in my hand. I can see the grapes but I can't reach them.

I'm glad work is being done, If you can't see the obvious things of how I see people working on an alternative OS to linux, and the clear conclusions drawn. As for IRC/email I think you are very aware, of why those are not answers in themselves. Its stretching the RTFM, use google, read faq, use search button a little too far.

 

[Jurrasic]

ALso, from what I understand the 'DRM' you are concerned about is somewhat of a misused term, it's more of a thing that can be enabled for commercial games that might be made for the gp2x like an anti-software piracy tool if developers want to protect their games from being copied, not 'DRM' as in the 'big brother' media portrayal of digital rights management software that reads everything you do and transmits it to the Thought Police for compliance.

Apparently it was the closest acronym from the Korean word GPH wanted to use, and they were unaware of the strong negative impression the buzzword DRM has in the opensouce/hacker community.

 

[Araneidae]

I have to say I find this explanation of "GPH DRM" quite unconvincing. Any purely software based protection will be broken quite quickly, so it's a safe bet that they are indeed aspiring to some form of hardware based DRM. I find the current attempts to dodge around this and pretend that it's going to be all fluffy implausible in the extreme.

DRM seems deeply embedded in the executive mindset: they want to cling onto their wealth, so the idea of contributing just doesn't make sense to them. I think the battle against DRM is going to be a hell of an up hill slog.

 

[nubie]

Has anyone read the PDF for this chip that the gp2x is using?

I know a few have, definitely DJWillis, but not many others.

DRM is a function that can be called in the processor.

CAN be CALLED in the PROCESSOR

for running games that were paid for and need to be "rights managed"

Why are people still throwing crap over this?

 

[Sofox]

I was concerned about the lack of open source, but knowing that they are people like DJWillis who share my concerns and are working on the issue by talking with GPH about it really soothes my mind. Thanks Willis.
Honestly, what bugged me most about this was the thought of a small company working hard to correct bugs that could (assumedly) be corrected a lot quicker if they released the source code and had the community work on them. It just seemed to be the worst for all of us.
However, I accept that there are issues to work through first so instead of complaining I'll just wish the best of luck to Willis and everyone involved and hope that everything works out the best for everyone.

 

[DJWillis]

Why are people still throwing crap over this?

Frankly because people seem to believe that GPH can chuck a magical switch and there favourite SNES emu will stop working due to 'DRM' . Or there MP3 will not play .

DRM is in most platforms, it's just not called DRM, it was in the GP32 for commercial games, and it’s in the GP2X. Does it affect homebrew and community work one bit? Of course it does not.

DRM is not by definition some coverall to prevent say music or videos being played. It is really a coverall (esp. as GPH had to find an English word) for a method to protect commercial interests and it has been there since the dawn of computing.

I will agree that a lot of the ‘media’ focused DRM systems (Apple, MS, Sony etc.) are taking a vary serious turn for the worst but the GP2X DRM is just a way of tying a commercial game to a unit and/or SD card. Nothing more. Most of it is taken from the SD card standard and don’t forget open devices like the Zaurus have the same hardware in the SD and controller for DRM, people just don’t use it.

Cyclops,

Sorry, I will not give you the response to your post you seem to be looking for.

I'm glad work is being done, If you can't see the obvious things of how I see people working on an alternative OS to linux, and the clear conclusions drawn. As for IRC/email I think you are very aware, of why those are not answers in themselves. Its stretching the RTFM, use google, read faq, use search button a little too far.

There are no conclusions to be drawn about an alternative OS, raw hardware mode is by definition using the device without an OS and is being done for the hell of it as a lot of us are hardware hackers, like a lot of GP32 stuff it is being done for the shear fun factor. Great way to understand what makes it tick.

You don’t want to be spoonfed but you still want everything on a plate in a fashion you would like to consume. Stop being so petulant and look at what you have written. They are information resources the same as any other.