Example from Japan: Better Hinge and Screen Integration

[ekianjo]

This is from last weekend when I checked the big dictionaries we have in Japan currently. I don't think their keyboards or screens are great but their hinge design and screen integration is way better than what we have on Pandora (and what we currently plan for the Pyra, too).

The screen is completely flat - there is not bezel at all. And this screen has a pressure sensitive touch screen just LIKE the Pandora (and the Pyra), proving it is actually possible to have such designs even with pressure sensitive touchscreens. 

The hinge is way, way more robust than what we have, and makes it possible to have the unit completely flat on itself. So you can actually use the stylus with the screen being on something like a table instead of being held by the hinge in the air. 

I'm not saying we HAVE to do that, but I'd really like to see a better hinge and better screen integration for the Pyra and I hope these examples can spark some discussions and design enhancements instead of just reapplying what we have on the Pandora. 

 

[Natsu]

Maybe the hinge doesn't have to be as big...

The hinge is way, way more robust than what we have, and makes it possible to have the unit completely flat on itself. So you can actually use the stylus with the screen being on something like a table instead of being held by the hinge in the air.

That would be neat.

 

[x1212]

That hinge is interesting (that not having the unit flat thing is one of the points I don't like too much about pandora and DS), but somehow it does not look like it's very robust (what happens to the screen if you shake the unit a little bit?).

On the other hand I guess it's better for the cable from the board to the screen to go two times 90° instead of one time 180°.  (but since that was no issue with the pandora I don't think there's too much of a difference)

edit: looking at the pandora I realized it's most likely -90° to 90° instead of 180° ...

 

[thatgui]

Maybe the hinge doesn't have to be as big...

The hinge is way, way more robust than what we have, and makes it possible to have the unit completely flat on itself. So you can actually use the stylus with the screen being on something like a table instead of being held by the hinge in the air.

That would be neat.

But in Pyras case the lid and the base don't have the same height, which should be a big mechanical challange

 

[Natsu]

But in Pyras case the lid and the base don't have the same height, which should be a big mechanical challange

While it can't go flat on the table as it is now, I don't see why they couldn't make it 180 degrees.


It looks like to have it flat on a table (as it is now), you would have to have a hinge like this connected at the bottom of the base of the Pyra. :lol:

 

[ekianjo]

hat hinge is interesting (that not having the unit flat thing is one of the points I don't like too much about pandora and DS), but somehow it does not look like it's very robust (what happens to the screen if you shake the unit a little bit?).

Oh it is actually VERY robust. You can try to shake it all directions, it does not move at all. This thing is way more unbreakable (as far as I can tell) than the design of the hinge for the DS (broke for me after a few years of use) or the Pandora.  

 

[ekianjo]

It looks like to have it flat on a table (as it is now), you would have to have a hinge like this connected at the bottom of the base of the Pyra.

Yeha, that could be an option. There's others ways to do it too, while having the same kind of design and the hinge at the top of the unit.. 

 

[Askarus]

Remember the shoulder buttons.

There is no way to add some on a device designed like the one you posted above.

 

[Natsu]

Yeha, that could be an option. There's others ways to do it too, while having the same kind of design and the hinge at the top of the unit..

You mean while the base is bigger than the lid? Such as?

Remember the shoulder buttons.

There is no way to add some on a device designed like the one you posted above.

A 180 degree hinge Pyra shouldn't mess with the shoulder buttons. Even this can have one set of shoulder buttons...just couldn't use them after a certain degree.

 

[Neelix]

What is it you expect us to learn from the pictures? As best I can tell from the pictures the basic hinge design may well be exactly the same as the pandora. The only difference I can see is that it is hinged twice. Obviously if it's robust as you say then the quality of the hinges must be better than what the Pandora used, but the same concept pictured could be done with the Pandora hinges and look exactly the same. I don't see any particular advantage in using a double hinge - like a chain it would only be as strong as its weakest link.

- Neelix

 

[EvilDragon]

We discussed various other hinge ideas (like a rotating hinge) as well with the designers, but the problem is: That needs extensive testing with a lot of design changes, which easily leads to about 5 months and about 20,000 EUR more time and costs.

I'd happily try out completely different hinge designs if we only had the money for that - but we don't.

So we're trying to find a way to make the current design robust so that it stays open in all directions withoug changing it too much.

 

[ekianjo]

So we're trying to find a way to make the current design robust so that it stays open in all directions withoug changing it too much.

Fair enough for the hinge. I understand your constraints.

How about the screen though ? You mentioned before that for pressure sensitive screens you needed the bezel design just like in the Pandora but this one in Japan clearly has a full flat screen and uses a pressure sensitive screen as well. Is there any way this option can be explored? 

 

[ekianjo]

but the same concept pictured could be done with the Pandora hinges and look exactly the same.

I'm not sure what you mean - are you talking about the physical shape or quality of the hinges ?

The reason I share pictures is to show what's available out there in 2014 in terms of hinge design, and there's no reason to assume that the DS-style of hinge from early 2000s is the best in class anymore.  

 

[ekianjo]

Remember the shoulder buttons.

Yeah, I admit this could be a problem if you reapply the exact same shape as above. As mentioned in the first post, I'm not showing this to say we have to do the exact same thing, but to understand if we can look at other hinge designs as well. But ED explained already he has timeline and budget constraints. I still hope he can comment on the screen, though. 

 

[Foxgod]

The screen does look nice.

But the hinge would indeed not be a good idea, but if the bezel can be done, i would be for it.

 

[EvilDragon]

It might be possible, but I fail to see the advantage of having no bezel. With this device it makes sense, as it's more comfortable when lying on the table. But what would be our advantage?

If the top is completely flat, I can't think of a good way fo fully close the hinge without having gaps.

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, and another thing just came to my mind when thinking about it: To make it completely flat, you need a touchscreen that is either glued on top of the LCD or completely separated from the LCD.

Usually, resistive touchscreens are put onto LCDs using a plastic frame (most likely the case with our LCDs as well).

The plastic frame has the same height as the touchscreen, so if you apply it into a flat case, you cannot hide the frame (and it's not a beauty).

And if you want to cover that touchscreen frame, you have your bezel.

 

[Foxgod]

It might be possible, but I fail to see the advantage of having no bezel. With this device it makes sense, as it's more comfortable when lying on the table. But what would be our advantage?


If the top is completely flat, I can't think of a good way fo fully close the hinge without having gaps.

The only purpose is that it looks a bit more sleek, or modern.

If it would indeed add gaps it would not be worth it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, if you close the lid, it needs to fit perfectly on the keyboard area to not have gaps there and look nice.

To make the keyboard area flat, the only way I can think of would be a bezel around the keyboard...

 

[ekianjo]

Well, if you close the lid, it needs to fit perfectly on the keyboard area to not have gaps there and look nice.


To make the keyboard area flat, the only way I can think of would be a bezel around the keyboard...

How about having keys which are flatter than the ones we have on the Pandora ?

Isn't it possible to consider that option since you are now in touch with keymat manufacturers ?

As for the example I shared above, the keys are certainly quite flat, but do protrude a little and the screen just "sits" on the keys when closed, in a uniform manner.