Ethernet Connector For Improved Networking Abilities?

[Chip]

the usb to ethernet is a workaround, but it tends to get unpractical under some circumstances with only one usb port available.

what I was discussing here was a rj45 connector, or the lack of such a connector. and I was answered the solution could be a ush hub (plus its power source) and a usb to ethernet adapter. which would be only 1 adapter.
To me the hub is already enough to defeat the size advantage of the pandora.

The usb hub solution is a non-solution, it's a dirty workaround for a common design flaw. Though for the pandora it's more a constraint due to lack of available space after packing many things than a flaw.
Still I do believe a rj45 connector is a nice addition if not a must, it is faster than wifi, more widely available . Having to resort to the use of a usb to ethernet leads to the use of a powered usb hub which in turn leads to a bag of accessories which defeats the portable aspect of the pandora.

If you need more than one USB port then you're obviously carrying more than one USB device - in which case you might as well carry the hub as well. If you don't have multiple accessories (say, just the RJ45 adapter) then you don't need the hub.

While you may consider a physical Ethernet jack to be important, the overwhelming majority of potential users do not. Besides being impossible due to size limitations, it is impractical for such a portable device. If you absolutely must have a RJ45 jack, you're just going to have to make due with a USB dongle.

 

[Arialia]

And well

Wifi is enough speed to surf on the web

For now i was just use the ethernet port of my laptop ( is my work computer) when i want to access to my router wifi ( or those of my neighbors ) and repair or activate wifi, it is not all the days i need that

and to transfer data between computer i use key usb or transfer by network in wifi, is speed enough.

I prefer have a good chipset wifi in pandora like computer ( mine is fine) but not like NDS which is very slow , because i don't want have cable when i'll play with Pandora on my Sofa or surf web on my bed, or read an ebook !


I don't understand what do you want to do with ethernet ?

if you want to make conference or repair network with it in the place of laptop, so Pandora + hub usb + dongle usb ethernet + cable don't take a lot of place

 

[netbsd]

I don't understand what do you want to do with ethernet ?

I will compile and boot NetBSD over Ethernet. Repeatedly. Not over WiFi (we don't know yet if the chip is supported by an open source driver) or BT (same problem as with serial ports: too slow). Yes, I'm Old Skool.

Also, redundancy doesn't hurt. I'll probably get one of those tiny BT dongles as well, to be on the safe side.

 

[Kings]

While we are on the topic of 'What can we throw on the Pandora that is useful but not practical on a small MOBILE device' lets add USB3, Gameport, XLR input, Surround sound output, DVI-D, a second screen, dual keyboards(dvorak) and a mouse! Or we can deal with the already awesome specs.

 

[Squidge]

I will compile and boot NetBSD over Ethernet. Repeatedly. Not over WiFi (we don't know yet if the chip is supported by an open source driver)

How do you know the ethernet controller will be open source if one was added?

 

[efegea]

I'd also like an RJ-45 connector, just bucause I don't want it to happen like my HTC Touch pocket pc, it doesn't like my wireless router and I can't connect to my wifi lan with it... although the wii and the nintendo ds can connect..

And because on my bedroom there is not wifi signal, but there is an rj-45 plug on the wall.. I don't want to have to buy an access point only for using wifi on the pandora on my bed...

 

[netbsd]

I will compile and boot NetBSD over Ethernet. Repeatedly. Not over WiFi (we don't know yet if the chip is supported by an open source driver)

How do you know the ethernet controller will be open source if one was added?

Added to a SoC or replacing Pandora's WiFi chip? Strictly speaking, I wouldn't know unless I'm told or can find out for myself.

However, I would guess the driver was open because 10/100 Mbps Ethernet is a commodity these days.

While I get the impression (maybe wrongly) that's not the case yet with WiFi in general.

The secrecy surrounding Pandora's WiFi chip is baffling. I would like to know upfront what I'm getting into.

 

[DJWillis]

The secrecy surrounding Pandora's WiFi chip is baffling. I would like to know upfront what I'm getting into.

That can't be helped. People are trying to make sure that it is as open as possible. Give it a little more time on that front.

However, in other news, I have been playing with some USB-Eth support at the U-Boot/X-Loader level to let you boot something off a suitable USB Ethernet adaptor attached to the EHCI host.
It is not something I have working in any form yet but the idea is sound and is something being looked at. Maybe that will be of use.

Hmm, on that note maybe I should put some info on how boot devices will be dealt with. Oh well, one more thing to do.

 

[netbsd]

It is not something I have working in any form yet but the idea is sound and is something being looked at. Maybe that will be of use.

Well, delegate. It was point zero of the plan I sent to craigix.

 

[DJWillis]

It is not something I have working in any form yet but the idea is sound and is something being looked at. Maybe that will be of use.

Well, delegate. It was point zero of the plan I sent to craigix.


And just why do you think Craig needs plans sent to him? No offence but that could easily be taken the wrong way (well by me anyway, Craig is pretty chilled) .

Anyway, no, there is no requirement to do things like fancy booting systems for the core shipping product. It is something I am messing with for my own sake, after all, the shipping product will boot it's built in Linux system, things like *BSD, RTEMS, Linux mashups etc. are the realms of the hackers. If I don't do it and none of the other people on the project have time then the features will come after release from the community soon enough.

Actually, just to make a clear point, my entire involvement in the Pandora project is for fun, I am not attached to the project in a financial capacity. By the very nature of that arrangement I am doing this for fun, not to manage another team of people who may or may not do anything (I have that in my other open source projects and my paying day job). On that note, people can stop sending me some of the emails/PM's telling me how I 'must' do things now . Advice/offers/real contributions are great and in the spirit of this project. Demands or rants are just tiresome.

Note: The above post/rant may be tainted by the email I just got telling me that it 'better f**ing run Maemo out the box of the Pandora will suck' (not from netbsd or anybody who seems to post here as far as I can tell). With mails like that you just think the work you put into a hobby will be 'so' appreciated . The Pandora hardware is awesome and a true hardware/software hackers paradise to mess with prior to a release. That's why I do this, it's selfish but what the hell, I'll contribute in trade for cool hardware/input.

 

[netbsd]

And just why do you think Craig needs plans sent to him?

Uh, because he asked?

"If you fancy it please email me with details of your plans and previous work via a pm or email via the board."

Hey, I'm trying to take some load off someone's shoulders, nothing more, nothing less. I have no commercial interests either, I only want to play with some new hardware, either OMAP or Loongson, probably whatever comes first.

 

[ldesnogu]

That reminds me of a project I took other and that I declared as obsolete because it was superseded by something better. Two years after I keep on receiving mails explaining me I should revive it, that it would be great; my answer is simple : "OK, let's start coding". Quite funny: the discussion stops at this point and I never hear back from these people

But I am sure the majority of the people respect your fun^D^D^D job, Just let the others talk...

Oh the project I talked above is xmame, and it's dead unless someone helps me resurrect it (the better alternative is SDLMAME of course).

 

[DJWillis]

And just why do you think Craig needs plans sent to him?

Uh, because he asked?

"If you fancy it please email me with details of your plans and previous work via a pm or email via the board."

Hey, I'm trying to take some load off someone's shoulders, nothing more, nothing less. I have no commercial interests either, I only want to play with some new hardware, either OMAP or Loongson, probably whatever comes first.


Sorry, it was a bad call to post . I was pissed about the email more then your post and I tend to stay off the board most of the time so missed Craig's request post. Can I offer my apologies...

Starting to remember why I don't post much any more .

Back on topic. Have you much experience of working with U-Boot before out of interest or any of the previous gen OMAP USB controllers?

 

[netbsd]

Followed up by PM

 

[Squidge]

The secrecy surrounding Pandora's WiFi chip is baffling. I would like to know upfront what I'm getting into.

Maybe they decided on a different wifi chip at the last minute, or found some problem and don't want to disclose information until they are 100% happy?

As for the wired ethernet, I'm with the other that state "just use a usb->ethernet convertor". The number of people requesting it isn't really enough to warrant the development and component cost.

 

[Pleng]

And because on my bedroom there is not wifi signal, but there is an rj-45 plug on the wall.. I don't want to have to buy an access point only for using wifi on the pandora on my bed...

So a USB-Ethernet adather would be impractical because....?

 

[izzie]

If you need more than one USB port then you're obviously carrying more than one USB device - in which case you might as well carry the hub as well. If you don't have multiple accessories (say, just the RJ45 adapter) then you don't need the hub.

While you may consider a physical Ethernet jack to be important, the overwhelming majority of potential users do not. Besides being impossible due to size limitations, it is impractical for such a portable device. If you absolutely must have a RJ45 jack, you're just going to have to make due with a USB dongle.

if we go the "if" way, if you have a rj45 port then you don't need the hub nor the adapter. ^^

Obviously I 'm not gonna use wired ethernet when I'm moving, which mean I don't need the usb adapter then. When I'm arrived at destination, usually there are computers, I'll find on location a whole bunch of stuff to plug via usb, from usb mouse, external drive, game controllers, all sort of useful usb devices, and almost everytime ethernet. But it's rare to find a usb hub as computers are packed with usb connectors, and wifi may be available, more common than a usb hub but still quite rare.

Which means that:
1) I have to carry a usb to ethernet adapter with me for networking when on location.
2) I have to carry a usb hub with me to use networking and another usb device at the same time.

Generally, when you start adding one usb thing, then you throw in a hub (with power adaptor), then suddenly you have usb ports available and you can start packing more usb device and so on. You paid money for stuff and wires that clutters your bag you wouldn't need in the first place if not for a so called portable device. Then an accessory, let's say a dock, comes out which packs all these needed features in a single additional device with a single wire... business as usual, but I kinda hope to avoid this with the pandora.

I'd take a "not taken into account in the early design process, it would be costly to do it now" but "impossible due to size limitation" ? come on, haven't you heard of picotux ? "impractical for such a device" ? are you kidding me ? how can you say such a thing. The usual example would be being you're in a place with ethernet cable readily available (any place with computer networking, places where linux enthusiasts roams) but without wifi (not equipped, disabled for security or health concerns, restricted access, not possible due to building, ...).

I do consider rj45 to be a must for networking with any serious computing device, the pandora being one such device, the psp or ds are not. I'd be surprised the overwhelming majority of potential users of a homebrew linux system would not care for a rj45 connector. Can you back this assertion with some details ?
If there was a poll about this, I wasn't aware of it and totally missed it.

Anyways I understood there will be no rj45 on the pandora, but there's still hope for a dock or another kind of accessory, packing all that could not be fit into the current design. I also understood that if you want something added, you have to make your voice heard, nag for it, have other people ask for it.

on a side note, is there a risk of added strain to the pandora with a usb dongle and a wire plugged in ? the usb connector acting as a lever. which would be less likely to happen with a rj45 or an adapter with long enough cable(too short example, long enough example, long example 2).

 

[Tobriand]

I'd take a "not taken into account in the early design process, it would be costly to do it now" but "impossible due to size limitation" ? come on, haven't you heard of picotux ? "impractical for such a device" ? are you kidding me ? how can you say such a thing. The usual example would be being you're in a place with ethernet cable readily available (any place with computer networking, places where linux enthusiasts roams) but without wifi (not equipped, disabled for security or health concerns, restricted access, not possible due to building, ...).



Actually, considering that the reason MWeston did not include a second audio jack was *only* because there is no room left on the board, or not without removing essential support struts, no space left is a perfectly good reason. There was talk about requiring an adapter in order to have normal audio-out, even, although MWeston dismissed this some way into the thread.

Believe it or not, there really isn't room. It's that, or have a much thicker console, or a much shorter battery life. At least as I understand it.