E-ink Screen

[FaeMinx]

And yes, I have read entire books on really tiny screens before - thinking of my long dead HTC Wing.

Never heard of the HTC wing, but I've been dying for something to read my ebooks on ever since I stopped using my Droid 3.

My apologies, I mis-remembered. I actually had the HTC P4350:


http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_p4350-1781.php


My point was that I'm fine reading on a 320x240 screen. (If I have to)

 

[Natsu]

If it has touch, you can use it like a vita touchpad. 

 

[Tenka]

If it has touch, you can use it like a vita touchpad. 

Yeah, you can be forced to have to use it like that when such a control is used in a game made to force you to use it that way.  I do want this to be possible though.

 

[Kiga]

And it is probably more expensive than buying the tablet and Pyra separately.

I don't think so, readers are overpriced. Will just have to buy the screen and adapt the lid that's why it would be cheaper than readers which are overpriced by big companies because they want to maintain the price high.

 

[pmprog]

I didn't say all. By using a small screen, you are killing the possibilities of ebook reading, RSS reading, email and SMS reading, and possibly even web browsing among others

Seriously? but you will have practically zero controls for webbrowsing or anything. Unless you are still championing touch on it? Which I think is daft, because having touch screens on both sides of the lid is going to be tricky to use.
Besides, my idea was for notifications, not full blown use - you might as well open the Pandora for that and use the proper screen

 

[Klumpen]

...and people thought the Pandora is overloaded....

I do not think, that ED has any interest in going through the trouble of making Pyra even more expensive.

Sure, it would be nice to have a clock and information about the current ogg on the outside, but is it really worth all the trouble and costs?

 

[_wb_]

 

I want it on the outside too, just preferably not on the back of the lid, but rather in the front of the base, where the SD slots of the Pandora are, at a slight upwards angle so you can read it when holding it as a handheld, when it is on a table, and when the lid is closed.

That's just infeasible though - The front of the Pandora is already "full", and I don't think ED plans on moving the SD card slots etc.

Well, the headphone jack already moves to the back, and the power button moves to the top (keyboard side) of the base:

\

I think that makes enough room for a small display (e.g. http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-17-inch-memory-lcd.html is 35x11mm, 29x6mm active area).

 

[Natsu]

Why was the headphone jack even moved?
 
Anyway.
Link

 

[destraht]

Are we still talking about e-ink? Images aren't very good on e-ink...


And yes, the thing that the apps would need to support it explicitly, and that may pose a serious threat of uselessness to it.


From another side, we may implement the widely used Desktop Notifications Specification (Notifications basically) to communicate with the server, which will render them to the e-ink.


This would first of all let several applications use the screen, instead of a single app taking the entire screen for it self.


Secondary, this would integrate into the existing Linux applications.


But i still see minimal use in it. Its a "play, play, and leave it" feature for me.

Having system notifications displayed on an e-ink in the front of the machine would be pretty awesome.  I could leave an IM program open while playing a game.

 

[destraht]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

Also I think it's a bit wasteful to put a display in the back of the lid because then you can never use it while using the real screen (except maybe for 2-player games?).

Something like what I linked earlier (http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-17-inch-memory-lcd.html), 184 x 38 pixels, enough for 20x4 characters or so, would be perfect to build into the front of the base. We could write a library to make it easy to use in applications and a simple program to use it from scripts, e.g. just do


/usr/pyra/scripts/set_eink.sh path/to/some_black_and_white_184x38_image.png
and the image changes, or write a line of output by doing


echo "Hello world!" > /dev/pyra-eink
It doesn't have to be more complicated than something like that.

I'm with you on putting it in the front of the base.  It could list be used for;

1) typing basic shell commands

2) system notifications

3) chat notifications

4) music changer

5) Stock quotes

6) International times

7) Battery usage

8) CPU usage (updated every several seconds)

9) Wifi strength

10) Displaying which NIC is active

11) Replace some LED indicators

12) Debugging

13) Nintendo DS mini-map

 

[destraht]

I don't know exact prices but some people would say that the tiny ones are already too expensive for a non-essential feature, and I would assume that big ones are more expensive than small ones.

If you put it in the front of the base, you can both use it when the lid is closed and when the lid is opened. I think it is always better if you can only use it in both use cases than if you can only use it when the lid is closed. E.g. it could replace lots of status leds: no need for wifi/BT/3G leds if you can show that on the small screen, but only if the small screen can be seen all the time.

That would be amazing if it could replace leds.  It could also show wifi strength as well.  So many uses.

I don't really like the permanent LED for the 3g chip, although I don't have a better solution.

 

[destraht]

Small enough to display a few short lines of text is still interesting. It would be useful as a status / notification bar that doesn't disappear when playing games or doing other full-screen stuff. It would probably be nice to have as a dev for debugging purposes.

For displaying time/date, status and notifications, and a song title / artist, a large screen is overkill. For reading books a 3 or 4 inch screen is kind of small.

Agreed.  I bought a Kobo Mini for $40 and I'll take that over a big bulky Pyra e-book reader any day.

 

[Klumpen]

I'd vote for it, if it would make the device up to 10€ more expensive and there would be some dev who writes a deadbeef plugin and the OS modifications for it, but if you think about the design work that is involved, It should be way more.

 

[Granitehead]

I don't really like the permanent LED for the 3g chip, although I don't have a better solution.

I have. (see other thread)
I think I would use a large e-Ink screen quite a lot. I don't use my Sony eReader a lot. Why? Because software is crappy and it would be a pain in the ass to even try and make something better myself. I don't buy another eReader because I'm pretty sure they aren't much better.

But if I had an entire Linux controlling a nice e-Ink screen I think even I would be able to make some eReader app which is better than Sony's one.

Edit:

I'd vote for it, if it would make the device up to 10€ more expensive and there would be some dev who writes a deadbeef plugin and the OS modifications for it, but if you think about the design work that is involved, It should be way more.

Yeah, I already posted that: I think it would be around $100 more for a good one. Some years ago they cost $35? Well, assume we choose one for $30-$40. Don't think they will be much cheaper because they will also be better than what you'd get some years ago. Doubling that amount seems appropriate to me when thinking of the price explanations from ED. Add some to be sure and you are at $100. Maybe $60 would be possible, but that would be extremely tight.

 

[Natsu]

I'm with you on putting it in the front of the base.  It could list be used for;

1) typing basic shell commands

2) system notifications

3) chat notifications

4) music changer

5) Stock quotes

6) International times

7) Battery usage

8) CPU usage (updated every several seconds)

9) Wifi strength

10) Displaying which NIC is active

11) Replace some LED indicators

12) Debugging

13) Nintendo DS mini-map

And all those can't be view on top of the lid? Except 13) Which I didn't think it would work anyway.

 

[_wb_]

I'm with you on putting it in the front of the base.  It could list be used for;

1) typing basic shell commands

2) system notifications

3) chat notifications

4) music changer

5) Stock quotes

6) International times

7) Battery usage

8) CPU usage (updated every several seconds)

9) Wifi strength

10) Displaying which NIC is active

11) Replace some LED indicators

12) Debugging

13) Nintendo DS mini-map

And all those can't be view on top of the lid? Except 13) Which I didn't think it would work anyway.

No. How would you type stuff while looking at the outside of the lid? Putting it at the outside of the lid means you can only use the shoulder buttons (and maybe touch) as input methods. So while you could put a much bigger (and more expensive) screen there, it can be used only for mostly passive purposes, like reading a book, viewing a website (without color) or playing music. Things like IRC, posting on a forum, using a shell would be only possible with a touch keyboard (if it has touch) or with some very cumbersome input method based on the shoulder buttons.

If it is in the front of the base, you could do cool stuff like playing an N64 or PSX game while having an IRC chat window on the tiny screen, where you can type using the keyboard (you can only see a few short lines, but that's enough for IRC).

 

[sebt3]

Why was the headphone jack even moved?

Don't know. Puttinf it on the side would have a use, but on the back ? I dont see the improvement for us : being on the front or the back it reduce the portability of the device. and as the pyra might be a bit wider, I fear that it wont fit my suit's pockets anymore

 

[jorlinn]

I'd love the Pyra to have a good E-Ink screen. I see many feasible uses for it.

Just make sure that it does not jeopardize the project as a whole and that it is not fragile.

 

[Neelix]

@_wb_ How exactly do you hold your pandora that you would be able to view the front of the unit while typing on the keyboard? When I'm typing on the pandora the front of the unit is facing down and is out of my sight. Additionally If I understand you correctly you expect this display to be to thee left of the SD cards, an area which is normally obscured by the base of my thumb while thumb typing even if I could somehow see it.

I don't see it as being viable for IRC or a command line either at the size it would need to be to fit in that space.

Seriously I don't see it being practical to use such secondary display and the keyboard at the same time anyway, so to my way of thinking it makes the most sense to put it on the top of the lid, where it can be used for simple functions that can be controlled by the shoulder buttons, and also be big enough to be useful for something like displaying the contents of an ebook.

- Neelix

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Why was the headphone jack even moved?


Anyway.

Link

Because in the current Pandora, you can rest the Pandora comfortably when you lay in bed.  The headphone stabs your big fat belly