E-ink Screen

[Kiga]

Comments say "$5-$10 cheaper", not that they will cost $5-$10. Still, $15 instead of $20 isn't bad.

True. We also learn that eink screen cost $35 in 2011 so it would be cheaper now.

Awesome. Not to mention, if EvilDragon contacted e-ink themselves, they may be more than willing to set him up with good prices and support through themselves or one of their partners. They are really trying to push this second-screen idea for devices to try to get e-ink onto devices that until this point have been ruled by LCD, so I think they would be more than interested in selling to us.

Yes, I think so too, that's why I said:

I think they are very cheap to produce but the price will depend on E-ink brand strategy to conquer smartphone world and how they view Pyra.

 

[Natsu]

The Pyra is going be one very confused system. :lol:

 

[WizardStan]

True. We also learn that eink screen cost $35 in 2011 so it would be cheaper now.

But I want to play with one now, and $5 is just about the right price point. Why is it so hard to just buy one of these things? With some kind of accompanying documents, of course. That's probably the bigger problem.

 

[_wb_]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

Also I think it's a bit wasteful to put a display in the back of the lid because then you can never use it while using the real screen (except maybe for 2-player games?).

Something like what I linked earlier (http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-17-inch-memory-lcd.html), 184 x 38 pixels, enough for 20x4 characters or so, would be perfect to build into the front of the base. We could write a library to make it easy to use in applications and a simple program to use it from scripts, e.g. just do


/usr/pyra/scripts/set_eink.sh path/to/some_black_and_white_184x38_image.png
and the image changes, or write a line of output by doing


echo "Hello world!" > /dev/pyra-eink
It doesn't have to be more complicated than something like that.

 

[Kiga]

Memory lcd don't have eink properties. It worth to contact them and know how much we could have one, even if it's a little one.

 

[WizardStan]

The 1.26" ones are currently $16 for singles, $10 if bought by the thousand.

Transflective memory LCD is practically e-ink: it uses passive lighting and next to no power (the estimate for the 4.4" was 8 years on the Pandora's battery), they just aren't as flexible, and seemingly a lot more expensive.

 

[Kiga]

They don't look like paper like e-ink. E-ink would be just like you wrote something on the lid. And it's thinner and more rugged.

Once again the price would be determinant but reflective lcd not worth eink

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

 You have quotes on the products from one company. That is not a large enough sample size to determine that it is expensive. Not to mention, And yes, a bigger screen will be more useful, not only for reading, but for displaying a large amount of information. Aside from just reading the time, you could have a whole dashboard that shows up showing the time, date, current weather, temperature outside, etc. The bigger the screen, the more information you can fit without it looking ugly or cramped.

Also I think it's a bit wasteful to put a display in the back of the lid because then you can never use it while using the real screen (except maybe for 2-player games?).

Not in the least. It's the same principle as having a screen on the outside of a flip-phone that lets you check caller ID, etc. The difference is that this screen can be much larger than one of those screens and much more useful.

Plus, it would have tons of application in reading ebooks, RSS, *possibly* comics, etc.

We could write a library to make it easy to use in applications and a simple program to use it from scripts, e.g. just do


/usr/pyra/scripts/set_eink.sh path/to/some_black_and_white_184x38_image.pngand the image changes, or write a line of output by doing

echo "Hello world!" > /dev/pyra-eink

It doesn't have to be more complicated than something like that.

Yes, we could have a simple script for that. That script, however, would use the framebuffer that developers could also use if they wanted better control of the screen.

-God Ginrai

 

[Kiga]

Here 2 models that can fit: 3,5"      52,5*89,11*1,18        If the 4,3" is a bit too expensive, the 3,5" could be cheaper.

                                           4,3"    126 ,5*74,60*1,18

 

[_wb_]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

 
You have quotes on the products from one company. That is not a large enough sample size to determine that it is expensive. Not to mention, And yes, a bigger screen will be more useful, not only for reading, but for displaying a large amount of information. Aside from just reading the time, you could have a whole dashboard that shows up showing the time, date, current weather, temperature outside, etc. The bigger the screen, the more information you can fit without it looking ugly or cramped

I don't know exact prices but some people would say that the tiny ones are already too expensive for a non-essential feature, and I would assume that big ones are more expensive than small ones.

If you put it in the front of the base, you can both use it when the lid is closed and when the lid is opened. I think it is always better if you can only use it in both use cases than if you can only use it when the lid is closed. E.g. it could replace lots of status leds: no need for wifi/BT/3G leds if you can show that on the small screen, but only if the small screen can be seen all the time.

 

[Natsu]

What would you use it for while it's open?

 

[Eight Bit]

tbh I'd like it on the lid so it can be used while the clamshell is closed. Great for seeing notifications, reading the time or see what music is playing.

Or read a book ofcourse... I'd like the screen to be just as big as the main screen inside the clam shell and would be willing to pay extra for it.

I think it would be ideal to not have to sit with a nintendo DS form-factor machine all the time and have a machine that can be used in a more casual manner, with one hand also.

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

 You have quotes on the products from one company. That is not a large enough sample size to determine that it is expensive. Not to mention, And yes, a bigger screen will be more useful, not only for reading, but for displaying a large amount of information. Aside from just reading the time, you could have a whole dashboard that shows up showing the time, date, current weather, temperature outside, etc. The bigger the screen, the more information you can fit without it looking ugly or cramped

 I don't know exact prices but some people would say that the tiny ones are already too expensive for a non-essential feature, and I would assume that big ones are more expensive than small ones.

"Non-Essential Feature" or not doesn't matter. Most of the features of the Pyra are non-essential features. The only essential ones are Screen, more powerful SoC, gaming controls, and keyboard.

If you put it in the front of the base, you can both use it when the lid is closed and when the lid is opened. I think it is always better if you can only use it in both use cases than if you can only use it when the lid is closed. E.g. it could replace lots of status leds: no need for wifi/BT/3G leds if you can show that on the small screen, but only if the small screen can be seen all the time.

If you put it on the lid in front of the base, you take away more possibilities than you add. It would have to be small, just big enough for a ticker. That would be quite useless for anything but the most simple things. You probably wouldn't even be able to put the full song name for some songs being displayed by a music player.

And now that you can see it when the lid is open, what does that offer you? You can view the time, which you likely can already see on the main screen, and you can view the status for WiFi, BT, etc, which we can easily solve with LEDs. You wouldn't be able to do anything more useful than that.

Not to mention, if you put the screen on the front of the base, you are interfering with space that needs to be used for things like the power switch, volume wheel, and SD slots.

EDIT:

tbh I'd like it on the lid so it can be used while the clamshell is closed. Great for seeing notifications, reading the time or see what music is playing.

Or read a book ofcourse... I'd like the screen to be just as big as the main screen inside the clam shell and would be willing to pay extra for it.

I think it would be ideal to not have to sit with a nintendo DS form-factor machine all the time and have a machine that can be used in a more casual manner, with one hand also.

Exactly. I agree with all of these points.

I as well would be willing to pay extra for a screen large enough to read ebooks and RSS on.

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

Even more of a reason to have a headset on the lid. With touch I should be even able to text without even opening it.

 

[_wb_]

Small enough to display a few short lines of text is still interesting. It would be useful as a status / notification bar that doesn't disappear when playing games or doing other full-screen stuff. It would probably be nice to have as a dev for debugging purposes.

For displaying time/date, status and notifications, and a song title / artist, a large screen is overkill. For reading books a 3 or 4 inch screen is kind of small.

 

[Kiga]

Honestly, 20~25$ isn't much for a 4,3 screen. It really could be a huge selling point and make much promotion. And it may be cheaper.

 

[God Ginrai]

Small enough to display a few short lines of text is still interesting. It would be useful as a status / notification bar that doesn't disappear when playing games or doing other full-screen stuff. It would probably be nice to have as a dev for debugging purposes.

Honestly, the only use you have come up with that truly sounds useful is for debugging, which while it could be useful, will not apply to a large number of users. Plus, there are plenty of other ways to make debug information visible while running your application.

For displaying time/date, status and notifications, and a song title / artist, a large screen is overkill.

Not at all. By having a larger screen, you could actually add accents that make it not just look like plaintext but have a nice style or theme to it. Also, a larger screen allows time and date to show up w/ analog clock or calendar month views.

For reading books a 3 or 4 inch screen is kind of small.

No it's not. The Droid 3 only had a 4" display, and I read light novels on it just fine.

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

You complain that I can't come up with enough useful uses for an extra display, yet you want a big one just to be able to use a nice big font and an analog clock? Hrm.

I don't really object to having a large e-ink screen on the back of the panel, but I think it's overkill if it's just for status info, would be more useful if it was also visible while using the Pyra, and if it increases the Pyra price by roughly the same amount as the cost of a cheap mass-produced e-reader...

 

[WizardStan]

If there were a display on the back of the lid I'd use it to turn my Pyra completely into a phone, with incoming call info and all that jazz. Anywhere else it's probably not going to be as useful. Or maybe it would, dunno.

 

[ZetaNeta]

I don't think a big e-ink display is that much more useful than a small one, unless you really want to read books on it, but then it's going to be too expensive if we want to do it right (high res, decent refresh rate, enough grayscales for anti-aliasing etc).

Also I think it's a bit wasteful to put a display in the back of the lid because then you can never use it while using the real screen (except maybe for 2-player games?).

Something like what I linked earlier (http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-17-inch-memory-lcd.html), 184 x 38 pixels, enough for 20x4 characters or so, would be perfect to build into the front of the base. We could write a library to make it easy to use in applications and a simple program to use it from scripts, e.g. just do


/usr/pyra/scripts/set_eink.sh path/to/some_black_and_white_184x38_image.png
and the image changes, or write a line of output by doing


echo "Hello world!" > /dev/pyra-eink
It doesn't have to be more complicated than something like that.

Awesome...


I like this idea.

tbh I'd like it on the lid so it can be used while the clamshell is closed. Great for seeing notifications, reading the time or see what music is playing.

Or read a book ofcourse... I'd like the screen to be just as big as the main screen inside the clam shell and would be willing to pay extra for it.

I think it would be ideal to not have to sit with a nintendo DS form-factor machine all the time and have a machine that can be used in a more casual manner, with one hand also.

I cant imagine any other way to place it :3 (I personally imagine the top panel as something similar to that phone in the first post now)


I wont be actually willing to pay more than 10 euros extra for the screen it self.... I stopped arguing that this is useless just because useless features are not so painful when they are just few euros extra.


YES! I said that not in a single thread! Maybe make it more UMPC than a DS clone? After all, there is a serious amount of people taking it as a Linux pc, not as a console. (For me, its meant to replace a laptop now that my old one is "gone")


I am not saying that it should turn go target it self as total UMPC (Which would scare most non-nerds away), but if you are the best UMPC available on the market, "поимейте совесть" and dont ruin this for people who see a great UMPC in this.