DS emulator.

[Jet]

Hello everyone!
The resolution of Pandora 800*480? Nintendo Ds have 2 screen with 256*192.
Can are both of NDS screen going in Pandora screen?
DS emulator will be cool!

 

[dflemstr]

Hello everyone!
The resolution of Pandora 800*480? Nintendo Ds have 2 screen with 256*192.
Can are both of NDS screen going in Pandora screen?
DS emulator will be cool!

Search the forum before posting.

A DS emulator is possible, but would probably only run with ~2FPS (or maybe, if someone really smart starts working on it, we could get it to playable framerates).
No one is working on one at the moment though.
And yes, the DS screens would easily fit on the Pandora screen, about 3 times in fact...

 

[atomicthumbs]

It would need a lot of work.

 

[Jet]

But, it is really?

 

[dflemstr]

But, it is really?

Really what?
1. Really possible? → Yes but it will be difficult, see 3.
2. Really real? → WTF?
3. Really difficult to make? → Since no one knows an awful lot about the DS architecture, it will be difficult to emulate with the few resources available on the Pandora.
What do you mean?

 

[Jet]

1.
Thanks!

 

[Exophase]

3. Really difficult to make? → Since no one knows an awful lot about the DS architecture, it will be difficult to emulate with the few resources available on the Pandora.

Not true, very much is known about the DS hardware: http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm

Even a port of DeSmuME would run faster than 2fps. What is "playable" framerates? It's a floating number that differs for everyone and depending on what game you're playing.

 

[dflemstr]

3. Really difficult to make? → Since no one knows an awful lot about the DS architecture, it will be difficult to emulate with the few resources available on the Pandora.

Not true, very much is known about the DS hardware: http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm

Even a port of DeSmuME would run faster than 2fps. What is "playable" framerates? It's a floating number that differs for everyone and depending on what game you're playing.

Show me a demo emulator or I won't believe you
But OK, maybe the 2 FPS are a bit pessimistic...
I just wanted to utterly destroy all hopes of getting a DS emulator at launch, by presenting the worst part of the probability spectrum, so that we get less "When is the DS emu done?" and "The DS screen fits on the Pandora so why don't you whip up an emu in 15 min?" kinds of topics.

 

[Dauric]

Repeating myself:

I'm rather skeptical about the feasibility of the DS on the Pandora. Chipset workings aside I hear the rationale: "The Pandora's resolution will fit two or three DS's worth of screens...."

...Sure, if you want to play DS on a postage stamp. Resolution is less the issue than raw physical size at that point, and then you're trying to hit a stylus target that is scaled down to less than a quarter of it's original size with a stylus that isn't scaled (Or maybe it's been sharpened it enough that it's a danger to the integrity of the screen...)

there's the possibility of turning the Pandora sideways to get more room, but that offsets your controls by 90 degrees and puts your grip in strange new places.

Not that I'm saying it isn't possible, but there's some substantial issues of basic usability to resolve if someone was to take on that kind of project.

 

[Exophase]

Meh. Pandora's screen is 4.3" diagonally, which should mean (800 * x)^2 + (480 * x)^2 = 18.49, 870400 x^2 = 18.49, making pixels 0.004609 square inches in size, and the width of the screen 3.6872 inches and the height 2.2123 inches.

The Nintendo DS screens are 3 inches diagonally, 256x192, so (256 * x)^2 + (192 * x)^2 = 9, 102400x^2 = 9, making pixels 0.009375 square inches in size, and the width of the screen 2.4 inches and the height 1.8 inches.

Direct comparison of sizes with different configurations:
Main screen 512x384, sub screen 256x192 - main screen is 2.359808 inches by 1.769856 inches, making it just slightly smaller than the DS screen physically. Subscreen is 1/4th that area, but a lot of DS games favor one screen over the other in levels of content importance - ones that rely on the stylus usually do it on the "important" screen as well.

Main screen and sub screen both 400x300, side by side - scaling causes some blur/loss of contrast but nothing horrible (GBA on PSP doesn't look particularly bad). Both are 1.8436 inches by 1.3827 inches, 2.54914572 square inches surface area, which is about 59% of the surface area of the DS's screens. However, if you compare this to the GB Micro's 2" screen you will see that it's about 138% the surface area. Since there are people who are willing to use GB Micro then I can only imagine there'd be people willing to use this setup.

Main screen and sub screen 320x240 on top of each other - scaling again. This is the worst configuration, but only necessary for a small number of games that align the screens continuously.

These configurations would be sufficient for so many people for so many games that throwing them out just because Pandora doesn't have two screens is very short sighted.

 

[borgqueenx]

im already happy when someone ports a emulator to the pandora. 15FPS is already playable.

 

[Alpha2]

They throw it out because mostly it's be uncomfortable to play sideways. Or assuming that scaling the screens to be side by side doesnt completely bork the accuracy of the stylus. the GBA micro example is a poor one. just because a few people dont mind ruining their eyes playing it or dont care enough about readable text doesnt mean everyone cares that little about it.

Also largely the GBA micro was a roaring failure for just such a reason.

 

[Aethix]

One idea I heard somewhere was we put the bottom screen on the Pandora's screen and the top screen on an external screen.

 

[Exophase]

They throw it out because mostly it's be uncomfortable to play sideways. Or assuming that scaling the screens to be side by side doesnt completely bork the accuracy of the stylus. the GBA micro example is a poor one. just because a few people dont mind ruining their eyes playing it or dont care enough about readable text doesnt mean everyone cares that little about it.

Also largely the GBA micro was a roaring failure for just such a reason.

Why would anyone have to play it sideways? None of the configurations I listed have the Pandora on its side. Why would scaling the screens and placing them side by side affect the accuracy of the stylus? Do you really think that DS games rely on pixel precise input of the touchscreen?

You completely neglected to comment on the first configuration which, IMO, would serve most DS games. That screen surface area is almost DS and bigger than Wiz which people seem to be okay with using.

A lot of people like the GB Micro, that's all I said. It's not a poor example just because you don't like it, that doesn't say anything for the ratio of people who will and won't tolerate such a thing, and besides, it's not as if that configuration is even nearly that small.

There are also a lot of other things which could have contributed to the GB Micro not doing as well as its predecessors, like being an unnecessary revision released late in the GBA's life, dropping GB/GBC support, costing even more than GBA SP at the same time.. take your pick. And yet it still has its fans for some reason. Of course, if you consider 2.42m units sold a "roaring failure" then I hate to consider how you'll regard the Pandora's sales.

 

[Alpha2]

I commented on a sideways format and a side by side format with the screens scaled down which is why I meantioned the comparison to the GBA micro. I'm no math whix but I can think of no other possible was of doing it without having the pandora literally grow a new screen when ever the emulator is activated.

Again there's the sideways portrait view (to get nearly full size screens) which nobody seems to think is a good idea except for people who really really really just want a DS emulator (without regard for how they'd actually play it comfortably) and a landscape, side by side or stacked format. Higher resolution is one thing, you might get all the DS pixels on the screen but the screen images will still be physically smaller, and even if someone actually manages to get it to work the question remains will there be accuracy problems because of the size? Ultimately no one knows until actually gets made but the likely hood as with most early projects would seem to suggest there would be some headaches in that regard.

As for the GBA micro I dont say it's a bad example because I dislike it I say it's a bad example because it was a horribly designed device. it's screen was too small, making many games illegible. Sure there were complaints about the uselessness of it as a product revision that precluded most people from even considering a purchase as well as complaints about not being able to hold it comfortably, and lack of support but I doubt anyone would want to play GBC games on a screen that small either. I've never even held one, I'm just passing along the existing chatter on the subject that for the people who actually DID buy it, that was most often the least liked feature. 2.4m? big deal you could put nintendo's name on a sack of horse crap and still sell 3 million of them. I think they sold twice that number of DSi's in the first week and that's almost as worthless a product revison.

I dont consider the Pandora's sales eve, remotely a point of discussion in this because they're not being made for the same demographics. Wii sold twice as many units as the 360, that dosent mean it's better, it just means it was trendy to buy at the time and half the price of either that or the PS3. You can't judge it by the same criteria.

 

[Exophase]

I commented on a sideways format and a side by side format with the screens scaled down which is why I meantioned the comparison to the GBA micro. I'm no math whix but I can think of no other possible was of doing it without having the pandora literally grow a new screen when ever the emulator is activated.

Again there's the sideways portrait view (to get nearly full size screens) which nobody seems to think is a good idea except for people who really really really just want a DS emulator (without regard for how they'd actually play it comfortably) and a landscape, side by side or stacked format. Higher resolution is one thing, you might get all the DS pixels on the screen but the screen images will still be physically smaller, and even if someone actually manages to get it to work the question remains will there be accuracy problems because of the size? Ultimately no one knows until actually gets made but the likely hood as with most early projects would seem to suggest there would be some headaches in that regard.

You're ignoring or disregarding the first option I gave which is to use a different scale factor for the two screens. I know that this won't work well for all DS games, but personally speaking every one I've played delegates one of the screens, usually the top one, to something pretty unimportant. Something that players wouldn't mind having in a small size. No, it wouldn't be good for every DS game, but that hardly makes it a worthless option not worth considering.

As for the GBA micro I dont say it's a bad example because I dislike it I say it's a bad example because it was a horribly designed device. it's screen was too small, making many games illegible. Sure there were complaints about the uselessness of it as a product revision that precluded most people from even considering a purchase as well as complaints about not being able to hold it comfortably, and lack of support but I doubt anyone would want to play GBC games on a screen that small either. I've never even held one, I'm just passing along the existing chatter on the subject that for the people who actually DID buy it, that was most often the least liked feature. 2.4m? big deal you could put nintendo's name on a sack of horse crap and still sell 3 million of them. I think they sold twice that number of DSi's in the first week and that's almost as worthless a product revison.

Yes, it is because you dislike it. You're trying to pass off something as objective fact that simply isn't. How legible a handheld's screen is is a function of how close you hold it to your face and how good your near eyesight is. A lot of people did and do like the GB Micro and clearly have a different opinion than the people you have talked to. Furthermore, the small size of the screen is a compromise made for high portability, which is the GB Micro's most well regarded feature.

I dont consider the Pandora's sales eve, remotely a point of discussion in this because they're not being made for the same demographics. Wii sold twice as many units as the 360, that dosent mean it's better, it just means it was trendy to buy at the time and half the price of either that or the PS3. You can't judge it by the same criteria.

Where did I ever say anything about quality? I was talking about success. Just because you think that something was poorly designed or didn't do as well as other devices in the same class doesn't make it a failure from a marketing standpoint. It's a failure if it failed to make money, and I can guarantee you that whatever GB Micro grossed at 2.4 million is much more than they spent on manufacturing and advertising them. Wii is also more successful than XBox 360, and I would consider DSi successful so far too. None of this is "judging" the platforms.

 

[dflemstr]

[/rant]

Just make the screens resizable/movable and there won't be anything to argue about. If you don't like the idea of a DS emulator, then don't use it.

 

[Alpha2]

I'm not here to fucking argue about it, I've said my peace about it, it's my opinion get over it. the fact is no one has signed up to make one yet have they? If they do, fine happy goddamnbirthday to you. I swear why does everything have to be a fucking religion worthy of such intense zealotry in this community.

 

[Exophase]

I'm not here to fucking argue about it, I've said my peace about it, it's my opinion get over it. the fact is no one has signed up to make one yet have they? If they do, fine happy goddamnbirthday to you. I swear why does everything have to be a fucking religion worthy of such intense zealotry in this community.

You WERE here to argue about it, until you got tired of reading what I was saying and just flew off the handle...

I don't have intense zealotry for the Pandora or DS emulation or anything like that. I'm not making this a "fucking religion." That you say these things just because I threw some ideas on the table and told you some of your opinions weren't fact is way out of line. Don't insinuate that I'm the one overreacting here.

 

[borgqueenx]

Exophase, people are claiming ds emulation its impossible to get running on 30FPS, and some say its possible...
i dont understand things anymore..Is it likely someone will make a ds emulator some day for the pandora?
Since you created a gba emulator, i think you can maby know the answer