DragonBox OpenSource Coding Competition - Rules (DRAFT!)

[_wb_]

Yes, the question boils down to: "What is the goal of the competition?"


Since the compo is/was called "DragonBox OpenSource Coding Competition", organized by a shop that claims to focus on "OpenSource Handhelds and Retro Stuff", I assumed the goal was to encourage Open Source devs to do some Open Source Coding for those Open Source Handhelds.


But maybe my assumption was wrong, and the goal is just to get more software (of any type, closed or open source) to enjoy on these so-called "OpenSource" Handhelds. Maybe the "true meaning" of the word "open" is "open to all", i.e. "open or closed".


War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Closed is open.

 

[iprice]

The quality of an open source console (or any console for that matter) is based on it's software - not whether that software is open-source or closed source.


I'm happy to abide by whatever rules are stated in the final version. As I have said, I only replied to EDs response about opening up the competition FFS.


An open console isn't necessarily about open software.

 

[PowerGod]

I'm with the ones who want to give better prizes for open projects, cause is the software that makes a device useful, even if it's closed...

That makes no sense.

I was meaning to permit ALSO closed software, replying to the ones that were telling to excluding it completely from the competition

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Do we have any good examples of what programs or packages might be "lost" as a direct consequence of excluding their closed source requirements?


What's ridiculous is when someone looking to enter a nudist colony balks at being "forced" to remove their clothes. It's not Merry Christmas, it's Happy Holidays! We must be all-inclusive, anywhere, anytime, always. Freedom works in many ways...


I totally understand that if someone manages to finish Coldbird's work on Skype, or if Paper Wars becomes an all-out MMO, or something epic of the like, and the open-sourcery is a dealbreaker, then indeed that would be an unfortunate loss. But the prizes here while nice, aren't so ridiculous that we run a huge risk of developers wanting to port or write major apps but cannot because they could make a lot of money otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong on this, which is why I asked my question above.


I guess maybe I'm optimistic by thinking we will have future competitions, if this competition is to keep the Pandora from an early grave then certainly let's open all doors. Otherwise, why not take a moment to celebrate the wonders of the open source side of the world? I'm sure those clever closed source guys could develop SOMETHING to submit that won't break their proverbial code monkey backs, financially speaking.

 

[WizardStan]

The quality of an open source console is based on it's software - not whether that software is open-source or closed source.

I agree that open source does not automatically make that software better, but if the intention of the contest is to promote open consoles based on open source software do you not see the hypocrisy in a contest that doesn't discourage closed source software?

 

[iprice]

I'm with the ones who want to give better prizes for open projects, cause is the software that makes a device useful, even if it's closed...

That makes no sense.

I was meaning to permit ALSO closed software, replying to the ones that were telling to excluding it completely from the competition

Yes I understood that, but you completely missed out the rest of my conversation.

What's ridiculous is when someone looking to enter a nudist colony balks at being "forced" to remove their clothes.

But when the OWNER of the nudist colony says that people no longer have to take off their clothes, people are confused as to whether it's a nudist colony or not anymore.

but if the intention of the contest is to promote open consoles based on open source software do you not see the hypocrisy in a contest that doesn't discourage closed source software?

FFS ED HIMSELF said about opening it up before I even entered the discussion.


[EDIT], Yes here's the link -

 

[Scntrblob]

I say: Explicitly and highly encourage open source. After all it should be something positive and people usually adapt to something like that once they're aware of it. I guess everybody here wants iprice to take part and if he's the only one who stays close source - so what?

 

[PowerGod]

@iprice:


An open software, even if not polished OR finished in comparison to a closed one, leaves it's code, that can be used to make it better, or as a kickstart to another project...


It have an intrinsic advantage expecially in an opensource based community...

 

[bismuthdrummer]

What's ridiculous is when someone looking to enter a nudist colony balks at being "forced" to remove their clothes.

But when the OWNER of the nudist colony says that people no longer have to take off their clothes, people are confused as to whether it's a nudist colony or not anymore.

Right, I think ED should change the rules back to open source only, or change the name to just "open coding" and not "open source coding".

 

[_wb_]

Here's a compromise I could live with: let anyone participate (closed-source or open-source), but add a rule that ensures that entries without source are disqualified from winning a prize. So you can enter the compo with a closed-source submission if you really want to, see what kind of score you get, and if you happen to win you get the choice: either you release the source and collect the prize, or you don't release the source and the prize goes to the next best entry.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

The competition title (as per the first post of this thread, which has been updated) is 'DragonBox Coding Competition' (just mentioning as it is an updated post that may have been missed.

 

[WizardStan]

FFS ED HIMSELF said about opening it up before I even entered the discussion.


[EDIT], Yes here's the link -

Yes, EvilDragon mentioned it and asked for feedback, he didn't unilaterally decide on it until his update. We have all since been supplying that feedback he requested. He asked "what if I did this?" to which you and Steven are saying that it would be strictly better for the software that comes out of it, and which _wb_ and I are saying is hypocritical in a contest to promote open consoles. He asked a question and got two different answers, but only one of those answers can be correct; the correct answer depends entirely on what the intention of the contest is and only EvilDragon can answer that.

 

[iprice]

to which you and Steven are saying that it would be strictly better for the software that comes out of it,

That's not what I have been saying at all.


I have said that i would prefer it to be open to all (closed and open software) - not that it SHOULD be or that the competition would be better for it.


It's EDs competition - let him decide once and for all.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

@WizardStan Just to once again iterate, I am happy either way, I have said a couple of times I am perfectly happy for it to be open source, furthermore there is every chance I won't have time to enter either way. I just wanted to highlight the potential loss for forcing specific license requirements on the source code. I work on both open and closed source software. I see both perspectives!


The only plus side of this 'debate' is after so much time spent on it, it makes me feel slightly more that I really should try and make some sort of entry to given all the debating some meaning

 

[WizardStan]

I have said that i would prefer it to be open to all (closed and open software) - not that it SHOULD be or that the competition would be better for it.

Now you're just mincing words. "It is your preference that it allow closed source software" is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same as you saying "it should allow closed source software" for the purposes of the request: either you are in favour of EvilDragon allowing closed source software, or you have no objection to an "source code" requirement. You are in the former, _wb_ and I are in the latter.

@WizardStan Just to once again iterate, I am happy either way, I have said a couple of times I am perfectly happy for it to be open source

That's fine, and if ED decided that closed source software would be permitted I would be equally accepting. I don't think it's fair, _wb_ made an excellent case as to why it necessarily presents an uneven playing field, but I would not begrudge him for deciding to do so or anyone from taking advantage of it, so long as it is well reasoned. Like I keep saying, if the intention is to promote open source consoles then that right there is a very good reason to make the source a requirement; if that is not the intention, then I have absolutely no objections.


Do you disagree with this? Would allowing closed source software into a competition intended to promote open source hypocritical or not? If you agree then we literally have nothing to argue about: your position is just a matter of weight, whether the potential benefit of more and "better" closed source software is worth more than the hypocrisy of the rule or not, and that's strictly opinion and not something that can be debated fairly.

 

[Ziz]

I am very interested in the actually opinion of the develops, who will participate, so I created a poll:





Please feel free to answer the question. But keep in mind: This is a poll for developers!

 

[Rockthesmurf]

@WizardStan: In terms of fairness, I do understand the argument, but I also feel it is a little bit like saying 'Developers with 20 years of experience should be handicapped, otherwise they have an unfair advantage over developers with 2 years experience". Also, closed source entries using source built up over the last say two years, do not necessarily have any advantage over entries that are open source, but are using frameworks developed over the last 10 years. So I guess my answer is I do understand the potential advantage it gives, but at the same time I'm not sure just how much it matters with all things considered.


I'm not really sure where this idea about the Pandora having anything to do with Open Source comes from. Maybe it is advertised somewhere which is why a lot of people know about it, but I can't personally recall ever seeing this. In my head it has never been anything to do with Open Source, just another platforms to develop for. I love the fact loads of stuff is Open Source, but at the same time if someone presents a cool game/app that isn't Open Source it doesn't even register for me. I am guessing I am probably missing something here, as the general consensus does seem to indicate the Pandora has some links to open source more than I realise.

 

[WizardStan]

So I guess my answer is I do understand the potential advantage it gives, but at the same time I'm not sure just how much it matters with all things considered.

Answer to what question?

I'm not really sure where this idea about the Pandora having anything to do with Open Source comes from.

It has long been promoted as an "open" handheld built on open source software. Especially in this contest where ED put it along side other such open consoles similarly built on open source software.

 

[ptitSeb]

I'm not really sure where this idea about the Pandora having anything to do with Open Source comes from. Maybe it is advertised somewhere which is why a lot of people know about it, but I can't personally recall ever seeing this. In my head it has never been anything to do with Open Source, just another platforms to develop for. I love the fact loads of stuff is Open Source, but at the same time if someone presents a cool game/app that isn't Open Source it doesn't even register for me. I am guessing I am probably missing something here, as the general consensus does seem to indicate the Pandora has some links to open source more than I realise.

I guess this comes from the Linux OS. But things tends to blends.. More OpenSource software are comming to Windows (and even MacOS), and more closed sources are comming to Linux. And it's a good thing to have choice.


For OpenPandora, it's Open, meaning we can develop on it whitout NDA or any other contractual link with some Company, I see like that, but I may be wrong.


For me, the Contest's aim is: do some advertisement around the OpenPandora and boost the sales of the hardware. So I guess more quality software, open or closed, is the key.

 

[_wb_]

Yes, experienced devs also have an "advantage" over noob devs. However, given enough time, noob devs can become experienced too (e.g. by looking at code from more experienced devs!). The main issue I have with closed-source stuff is that you can keep the code closed forever and ever, and nobody else ever gets a chance to build upon that work.

I'm not really sure where this idea about the Pandora having anything to do with Open Source comes from. Maybe it is advertised somewhere which is why a lot of people know about it, but I can't personally recall ever seeing this. In my head it has never been anything to do with Open Source, just another platforms to develop for. I love the fact loads of stuff is Open Source, but at the same time if someone presents a cool game/app that isn't Open Source it doesn't even register for me. I am guessing I am probably missing something here, as the general consensus does seem to indicate the Pandora has some links to open source more than I realise.

From openhandhelds.org:


OpenSource Handhelds and Retro Stuff at the DragonBox Shop


The Pandora cardboard box mentions "OpenSource" in big letters somewhere, I don't have a picture available but I'm fairly sure about that.


On the openpandora.org website it says "Since the Pandora has mainly been developed as perfect OpenSource device, every developer can easily code and port software to it."


Need more examples?