D-pad No Good.

[MiloDC]

Why why why are we gamers forever doomed to the stinking plus-style D-pad?? Is it really cheap to implement, or something?

Not as heinous as the PSP's incredibly bad D-pad, sure, and not even as bad as the DS's classic Nintendo "+" design; but even the XBox 360 D-pad is (a little) better than this.

This design stinks because it requires the user to slide his thumb.

The best D-pad EVER was the Neo Geo Pocket Color's clicky stick!

No sliding of the thumb required, just a very natural rotation of your thumb joints. It was particularly good for games with complex motions, e.g. fighting games. Every move was effortless!

Some day, someone is going to make a successful portable gaming device with a clicky stick, and that will mercifully be the end of the ridiculous "+"-style bandwagon.

Grrrr!

 

[Duddyroar]

The 'cross' style d-pad is an excellent choice, actually. If you need evidence of this just check out the Saturn joypad (the original Japanese version, not the bulky Western redesign) or the Megadrive 6 button controller. Both of these feature d-pads like the one on the Pandora and they're the finest joypads I've ever used.

If you look around the net the Saturn pad always seems to get a massive amount of praise, especially for 2D fighting games.

As for the NeoGeo Pocket stick, it was certainly good but not quite as good as you make out.

 

[Prophet]

Some day, someone is going to make a successful portable gaming device with a clicky stick, and that will mercifully be the end of the ridiculous "+"-style bandwagon.

I'm a huge NGPC thumbstick fan.

And FYI - the original GP32 had one, and it was good too.

However, there are practical reasons to use a dpad. They require less space vertically, and are simpler (and I'd guess cheaper) to implement. And the vast majority of gamers never used a thumbstick, and feel comfortable with what they know - Nintendo style dpads.

But in a perfect world, I'd personally have all dpads replaced with thumbsticks.

 

[MiloDC]

The 'cross' style d-pad is an excellent choice, actually. If you need evidence of this just check out the Saturn joypad (the original Japanese version, not the bulky Western redesign) or the Megadrive 6 button controller. Both of these feature d-pads like the one on the Pandora and they're the finest joypads I've ever used.

If you look around the net the Saturn pad always seems to get a massive amount of praise, especially for 2D fighting games.

As for the NeoGeo Pocket stick, it was certainly good but not quite as good as you make out.

The cross style is a default choice. Manufacturers and gamers take it as a given because the major players (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) all employ this design (though Sony does to a lesser extent with its truly awful PSP design), with the result that most users never even bother to question it. (How many people who like D-pads have even heard of the Neo Geo Pocket Color?)

As just one example of why the stick design trumps the plus/cross design, look at any analog controller. They are all sticks (even the PSP version), not crosses, because the cross design is based on sliding over the surface of the pad rather than rotating the control via the natural rotation of the user's thumb joints. The cross designs sucks for fine control and precision, but it's (probably) cheaper to implement, and, fortunately for hardware designers, most users don't know any better.

Try doing a 360 motion with a cross pad. You literally have to slide your thumb all over the pad to make sure that you hit all the corners (or, at best, employ exaggerated rotation of your thumb joints in lieu of the sliding motion). With the NGPC's clicky pad, minimal rotation of the thumb joints is required; 360s come out like butter. Same goes for any other maneuver.

What you're really doing with a cross pad is rotating one big plastic truss, one that has four hardware triggers constantly hovering over four pressure points. For this reason, the cross pad trumps the clicky stick as a button control, but not a directional control; it's slightly easier to perform double tap inputs (e.g. back back or forward forward) on a cross pad since your really just pressing buttons with a cross pad design, rather than rotating a lever to fire off a switch (as one does with the stick design).

The NGPC clicky stick in particular is great because you get that extra little "click" when you rotate your thumb, as feedback to let you know that you're doing what you want to do.

 

[Yuglooc]

The 'cross' style d-pad is an excellent choice, actually. If you need evidence of this just check out the Saturn joypad (the original Japanese version, not the bulky Western redesign) or the Megadrive 6 button controller. Both of these feature d-pads like the one on the Pandora and they're the finest joypads I've ever used.

If you look around the net the Saturn pad always seems to get a massive amount of praise, especially for 2D fighting games.

As for the NeoGeo Pocket stick, it was certainly good but not quite as good as you make out.

The cross style is a default choice. Manufacturers and gamers take it as a given because the major players (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) all employ this design (though Sony does to a lesser extent with its truly awful PSP design), with the result that most users never even bother to question it. (How many people who like D-pads have even heard of the Neo Geo Pocket Color?)

As just one example of why the stick design trumps the plus/cross design, look at any analog controller. They are all sticks (even the PSP version), not crosses, because the cross design is based on sliding over the surface of the pad rather than rotating the control via the natural rotation of the user's thumb joints. The cross designs sucks for fine control and precision, but it's (probably) cheaper to implement, and, fortunately for hardware designers, most users don't know any better.

Try doing a 360 motion with a cross pad. You literally have to slide your thumb all over the pad to make sure that you hit all the corners (or, at best, employ exaggerated rotation of your thumb joints in lieu of the sliding motion). With the NGPC's clicky pad, minimal rotation of the thumb joints is required; 360s come out like butter. Same goes for any other maneuver.

What you're really doing with a cross pad is rotating one big plastic truss, one that has four hardware triggers constantly hovering over four pressure points. For this reason, the cross pad trumps the clicky stick as a button control, but not a directional control; it's slightly easier to perform double tap inputs (e.g. back back or forward forward) on a cross pad since your really just pressing buttons with a cross pad design, rather than rotating a lever to fire off a switch (as one does with the stick design).

The NGPC clicky stick in particular is great because you get that extra little "click" when you rotate your thumb, as feedback to let you know that you're doing what you want to do.

You never owned a GP2X did you?

 

[MiloDC]

Some day, someone is going to make a successful portable gaming device with a clicky stick, and that will mercifully be the end of the ridiculous "+"-style bandwagon.

I'm a huge NGPC thumbstick fan.

And FYI - the original GP32 had one, and it was good too.

However, there are practical reasons to use a dpad. They require less space vertically, and are simpler (and I'd guess cheaper) to implement. And the vast majority of gamers never used a thumbstick, and feel comfortable with what they know - Nintendo style dpads.
Yeah, I figure manufacturers go with the Nintendo trend because it's cheap and most players have been weaned on it.

But in a perfect world, I'd personally have all dpads replaced with thumbsticks.

Definitely. Seeing buttons masquerade as a directional controller is one of Nintendo's lamest contributions to the gaming scene (I think it was the NES that started the trend). The NGPC thumbstick owns; there's just no comparison.

You never owned a GP2X did you?

No, but from what I've seen and read, its stick wasn't as good as the NGPC's clicky stick design. I'll bet it was superior to the Pandora design, though.

 

[gruso]

I have the "luxurious" position of coming from the F200 and its blunderbuttons, so the classic style d-pad is looking dreamy. Even compared to the mod I've done on the GP2X.

The NGPC stick may well be superior, but I'm enjoying both ignorance and bliss on that front.

 

[naples39]

I can't comment on the NGPC dpad, but for me you nearly lost all credibility by saying the 360 dpad is better than a simple cross.

Have ever tried to play old games with that POS? With my 360 dpad it was literally impossible to do a crouch-slide in Super Mario Bros until I took it apart and sanded down the plastic. Playing a fighting game like SF2 is also utter agony with 360 dpad as it's so inaccurate you can't consistently pull moves. Having tried a bunch of old games with it, it is among the worst dpads I have ever used (that list would include 10+ consoles and several different PC controllers).

The cross is a simple, responsive, and effective design. Sorry you don't prefer it.

 

[Eolair]

I think a dpad with a cross is a good idea, but I would significantly lower the profile of the cross, smoothen the gradients, and make it slope down inwards towards the center. The current design looks sharp enough to cut through your thumb!

 

[gaterooze]

Ahem... please explain just how a stick would work in a clamshell design?

I love sticks, I even liked the GP2X's stick, but I'm glad they went with a d-pad for the Pandora, and in particular *this* style of D-pad.

BTW I never had any problem doing 360 degree movements (Zangief FTW) on the SNES pad...

Oh btw I suspect that little hole in the middle of the Pandora Dpad may have grooves to allow you to screw in a stick... now that would be mega-cool

 

[Esn]

For the record, my favorite-ever "D-pad" was the one used on the Sega Nomad.

 

[MiloDC]

Ahem... please explain just how a stick would work in a clamshell design?

Is this a trick question?

Just relieve it into the surface of the unit. That's what the NGPC does. If it sticks out above the surface a little (like the cross pad does on the Nintendo DS, for example), then just relieve the upper surface so that it can close (again, as the DS does).

I love sticks, I even liked the GP2X's stick, but I'm glad they went with a d-pad for the Pandora, and in particular *this* style of D-pad.

BTW I never had any problem doing 360 degree movements (Zangief FTW) on the SNES pad...

Similarly, I could ride a tricycle to work every day and get there just fine. That doesn't really make it the best option, though. (Though I might think it is if that's the only way I've ever gotten to work.)

I can't comment on the NGPC dpad, but for me you nearly lost all credibility by saying the 360 dpad is better than a simple cross.

Have ever tried to play old games with that POS? With my 360 dpad it was literally impossible to do a crouch-slide in Super Mario Bros until I took it apart and sanded down the plastic. Playing a fighting game like SF2 is also utter agony with 360 dpad as it's so inaccurate you can't consistently pull moves. Having tried a bunch of old games with it, it is among the worst dpads I have ever used (that list would include 10+ consoles and several different PC controllers).

The cross is a simple, responsive, and effective design. Sorry you don't prefer it.

Let me guess, you grew up playing the NES, right? (Figure your avatar is an indication.)

No offense, but if that's all you've ever known (or cared to know), then fine, more power to you. Others of us, though, have a little more perspective/experience/enlightenment/etc.

You can't even do a diagonal movement on a Nintendo-style cross pad without essentially hitting two buttons at once (i.e. up/down and left/right). At least on my 360 pad I can do a diagonal movement without forcing my thumb to deliberately hit two directions simultaneously.

The Nintendo cross pad is a demonstrably inferior design. Take it from someone who's been playing games for over thirty years, and making them professionally for almost twenty.

 

[Lineus]

Has everyone forgotten the TWO analog clicky nubs that this thing has? Just sayin'...

 

[TheLonelyGod]

isn't that and old render so not accurate of the dpad we're using?

 

[gruso]

Has everyone forgotten the TWO analog clicky nubs that this thing has? Just sayin'...
Oh yeah, those old chestnuts.

MiloDC - It's very nice of you to sign up and begin shouting at us from on high. We really do envy your perspective, experience and enlightenment.

Forgetting for a moment that it's probably too late to be ranting about Pandora's design, perhaps before posting you could have counted to ten, then offered your thoughts in a more constructive and less authoritative fashion. Otherwise, it's just nerdrage.

 

[naples39]

Let me guess, you grew up playing the NES, right? (Figure your avatar is an indication.)

No offense, but if that's all you've ever known (or cared to know), then fine, more power to you. Others of us, though, have a little more perspective/experience/enlightenment/etc.

You can't even do a diagonal movement on a Nintendo-style cross pad without essentially hitting two buttons at once (i.e. up/down and left/right). At least on my 360 pad I can do a diagonal movement without forcing my thumb to deliberately hit two directions simultaneously.

The Nintendo cross pad is a demonstrably inferior design. Take it from someone who's been playing games for over thirty years, and making them professionally for almost twenty.

NES was my first system, but I guess you missed the part of my post where I said I owned 10+ consoles and have used several different types of PC controllers. I would say I've used 20+ different dpads in my 20+ years of gaming, so don't talk to me as some kind of noob who knows nothing but a NES. And so what if you have to intentionally hit two buttons at once on a cross dpad--it's still accurate, responsive and predictable. That's something you can't say about most other designs.

And I still stand by my original comment--the 360 dpad is a joke and I can say from experience it is essentially unusable for emulation.

Have you ever used 360 dpad for emulation of the systems that the Pandora will emulate?

 

[gaterooze]

The Nintendo cross pad is a demonstrably inferior design. Take it from someone who's been playing games for over thirty years, and making them professionally for almost twenty.

MiloDC, you're coming across quite arrogant here. The best-selling handheld in the world happens to have a Nintendo cross pad, as does the second-best and third-best (DS, GBA & GB). Somehow I don't think your "demonstrably inferior" claim holds much weight. An *opinion*, personal tastes, fine, but please don't hold yourself out as some kind of divine authority.

And naples39's opinion is no less valid than yours (how do you know he hasn't been playing games for thirty years? I have).

btw as to your comment about fitting a stick into a clamshell, I don't think you quite understand the space requirements in a system like this -- it isn't just a hollow box that you can recess a stick into, y'know?

 

[MiloDC]

That's it, fellas?

Just the typical fanboy, foot-planted, firm-as-stone responses of "my opinion is just as good as yours" and "so what, it's flawed but it works" and "too late, that's the final design"?

K, guess I'm done here. Enjoy!

 

[gruso]

:lol: Um, fanboyism is saying "my opinion is right, yours is shit." There's only one person doing that in this thread.

Bye now, take care.

 

[gaterooze]

Wow.

For a start, no one can say whether the Pandora's D-pad is any good or not, because it doesn't actually exist yet. People were just saying that not all D-pads are necessarily bad, and for this particular device it's probably the best choice (mostly for practical reasons).

I guess you also missed where I said: "I suspect that little hole in the middle of the Pandora Dpad may have grooves to allow you to screw in a stick... now that would be mega-cool "

In fact, several people, including myself, said they liked sticks -- no fanboyism evident. I guess this chap just wanted to flame... oh well.