Craig Bashing

[KickAss]

if you came to believe, for whatever reason, that a person or company intentionally screwed you over (arguable in this case), you have every right to complain.

if you, in general, lose your manners and start posting meaningless and insulting bullcrap, your just another moron. dread had it right.

imho craig is not to be trusted. still i dun keep bitchin about it.

 

[Morn]

At first let me make it clear - I don't think Craig defrauded any money from his projects or he was ever planning to. I also don't support insulting anybody even if one's not playing fair. I'm also pretty happy owner of CC Pandora and iCP1, both from Craigx.

Craig was still starry-eyed optimist at least in his marketing speech, I don't think this is lying as such but it's unrealistic and perhaps deceptive, he should know better that it would take longer. The requirements changed after he made his estimates, with adding the LEDs - it was probably not a good idea to add them but I for one will be very glad to have the backlighting.

Sure, most of the problems is because over-optimism of Craig. But that's not everything. Going for LEDs that late was a bad idea, but that doesn't explain why ED still don't have nubs or why bluetooth modules arrived just recently. People see there are still problems Craig's hiding and nobody except him knows how serious they are. No wonder people are afraid this project will never happen.

As for the regular updates and video updates - it would have been nice, but there hasn't really been much to see yet. We're only just getting the first boards from production. He is failing to live up to that promise to do the video updates, possibly due to embarrassment and dejection that it's taking so long. I can understand that - I also tend to go a bit silent if there's some disaster, I feel like avoiding the issue rather than talking about it. I'm sure if everything had gone swimmingly as he hoped, he would have been enthusiastic to make videos and all that.

I understand that too. But I also hoped he's already learnt that denying things and hoping people forget is only making things worse in the long run.

I do also feel somewhat sorry for ED who is forgoing all profits from his store in order to supply pre-orders, and has done a lot of work for no monetary reward as of yet. He's had a hard time of it too but is not in extra personal debt due to Pandora project as far as I know.

He is as he stated here. I also remember him even giving exact amount in Euros but can't find that on the boards.

And no one is bullying him.

I think it's because he lets the community know what is he doing, how much effort he puts in, find time to answer questions on the board and so on.

 

[PokeParadox]

I think the main point is that any thread that can be remotely tied to Craig descends in "Craig is a fraudster" and such. We've read the same thing so many times that it's just getting so old.

Yes Craig should communicate more. He doesn't, so deal with it.

I think it's very easy to follow a logic pattern that sets Craig up to be a criminal mastermind that is sat on a beach sipping cocktails and laughing at our expense but to bring it up in every bloody thread...

Basic rule that mammy always said to me: "If you haven't anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

Or in other words negativity proliferates (breeds negativity) so instead of being able to read the scarce updates about the ICP2 all you can see is "wall of hate" and then go off getting raged that there's been no updates.

 

[moxie]

you guys did'nt get it : sswam does not defend craigx to death. He just think this community over-bully craigx.

I somewhat agree with him (and remember I've never been happy with the man...)

if you came to believe, for whatever reason, that a person or company intentionally screwed you over (arguable in this case), you have every right to complain. if you, in general, lose your manners and start posting meaningless and insulting bullcrap, your just another moron. dread had it right. imho craig is not to be trusted. still i dun keep bitchin about it.

Wholeheartedly agree with the above.

 

[Klumpen]

At first let me make it clear - I don't think Craig defrauded any money from his projects

Why not?

 

[comradekingu]

Ok, so how is anyone suppose to talk about the ICP2 and not blame craig for anything? Even craig has difficulty doing that.

Provide a list of things that are wrong with the ICP2, and how they arent related to craig. If he cant do his part, and you want to fault someone else for it, do his part in clearing his name. I will ask the questions, no more leading that this first one.

 

[sswam]

He is as he stated here.

Ah, damn - I didn't know that ED was also in debt because of this project.

Very sad, they both deserve to be rich from creating something great like this.

But the Pandora project has been a total disaster so far in terms of financials.

Ok, so how is anyone suppose to talk about the ICP2 and not blame craig for anything?

Personally my life is not depending on having an iCP2 next week.

I don't feel a need to "blame" anyone or get angry at all.

I don't mind that it's delayed, except that I feel sorry for the people who are working on the project.

I guess the worst effect of "craig bashing" - it is the main reason Craig doesn't post here any more. People angrily demand he should communicate more, and make other angry demands, give him the 10 point inquisition, it's totally counter-productive.

 

[comradekingu]

It isnt totally counterproductive. It wasnt like he gave the replies people wanted of him when he was here.

 

[ekianjo]

so far in terms of financials.

At least SOMEONE is doing something to recover it. Craig is doing shit to promote the Pandora while directly benefiting from ED's efforts and selling the Pandoras he gets from ED (without paying for them, it seems).

it is the main reason Craig doesn't post here any more.

Long before there was "strong bashing" he stopped providing updates. From the 1Ghz mess it was already the case. Get your story right.  

 

[sswam]

At least SOMEONE is doing something to recover it.

I guess Craig's approach to recovering is to try and create some other products, that might make a profit.

(iCP, iCP2, and perhaps his take on a "Pandora 2")

Long before there was "strong bashing" he stopped providing updates. From the 1Ghz mess it was already the case. Get your story right.

Maybe you're right on that.

 

[ekianjo]

I guess Craig's approach to recovering is to try and create some other products, that might make a profit. (iCP, iCP2, and perhaps his take on a "Pandora 2")

Technically it's illegal to make profit in one company and "transfer" these profits to another one. Which would be the case in what you suggest. This being said, Craig has hinted in one post that he did use the 1Ghz preorder funds for something non-Pandora related (if I remember correctly) so even Craig himself may not be aware of the Law in that matter.  

 

[sebt3]

Long before there was "strong bashing" he stopped providing updates. From the 1Ghz mess it was already the case. Get your story right.

And that's an excuse for bullying ?

 

[ekianjo]

And that's an excuse for bullying ?

It's not bullying if somebody does not respect their commitments. It's called responsibility.  

Bullying is when you are treating somebody innocent in a perverse way. Is Craig innocent of what people are complaining for? I guess you know the answer if you follow whatever Craig has written before and how many times he changed the story to make it seem nothing was his fault. 

For the people who are actually bullied out there and did not deserve anything to be treated this way, please do not brand this as "bullying". It is not. 

 

[sswam]

Technically it's illegal to make profit in one company and "transfer" these profits to another one.

I'm aware of that, but,

I guess he could pay himself a good amount and re-invest it in Pandora.

Also the iCP2 tech was supposed to be used in his take on "Pandora 2".

Or the iCP2 company could buy or merge with the Pandora company, I suppose.

I am not a lawyer or businessman.

Bullying is when you are treating somebody innocent in a perverse way.

I don't think it's okay to bully a "guilty" person either. Punish them if that's justified then be done with it.

 

[Morn]

At first let me make it clear - I don't think Craig defrauded any money from his projects

Why not?

Well, I can't prove it as I can't prove I'm not paid by Craig to defend him. Such behaviour just doesn't fit his psychological profile I have in my head.

Technically it's illegal to make profit in one company and "transfer" these profits to another one. Which would be the case in what you suggest.

I'm definitely not an expert in business law, especially common law variant but it's just a common sense. COmpany owner (or shareholder) can take profits from his company. He can also supply company with his private money (as both Craig and EvilDragon did)*. There are certainly additional requirement that must be fulfilled, and taxes to be paid but it's doable.

____________________

*) At least claim they did

 

[Klumpen]

Well, I can't prove it as I can't prove I'm not paid by Craig to defend him. Such behaviour just doesn't fit his psychological profile I have in my head.

It fits in the psychological profile which many (or most?) of the other guys here have in their head regarding C.

Technically it's illegal to make profit in one company and "transfer" these profits to another one. Which would be the case in what you suggest.

I'm definitely not an expert in business law, especially common law variant but it's just a common sense. COmpany owner (or shareholder) can take profits from his company. He can also supply company with his private money (as both Craig and EvilDragon did)*. There are certainly additional requirement that must be fulfilled, and taxes to be paid but it's doable.

We are talking about two different companies under Craig here (so three in total, including EDs).

The Pandora parts and 1Ghz preorder money was not for the ICP2 company, but afaik has been stolen by it, with this transfer, if it happened.

 

[ekianjo]

At first let me make it clear - I don't think Craig defrauded any money from his projects

Why not?

Well, I can't prove it as I can't prove I'm not paid by Craig to defend him. Such behaviour just doesn't fit his psychological profile I have in my head.

Technically it's illegal to make profit in one company and "transfer" these profits to another one. Which would be the case in what you suggest.

I'm definitely not an expert in business law, especially common law variant but it's just a common sense. COmpany owner (or shareholder) can take profits from his company. He can also supply company with his private money (as both Craig and EvilDragon did)*. There are certainly additional requirement that must be fulfilled, and taxes to be paid but it's doable.____________________*) At least claim they did

Sorry to be blunt but it looks like you know shit about what it is you are talking about.

First it is your duty to complete the orders that are placed by your customers. This is what your capital should be used for, among other things.


Second these were not profits since craigs pandoras business is deep in the red. If he did such a thing he misused the order money for unauthorized purposes.


Third, even if he had any profits this should be duly declared and taxed before being injected in another company. There are regulations for these kind of things.


Again, not sure if he did that or not but some of his posts certainly gave that impression.

 

[Morn]

The Pandora parts and 1Ghz preorder money was not for the ICP2 company, but afaik has been stolen by it, with this transfer, if it happened.

If it happened that is illegal indeed and unfair to people who ordered Pandoras.

 

[Morn]

Second these were not profits since craigs pandoras business is deep in the red. If he did such a thing he misused the order money for unauthorized purposes.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "these"? Are we still talking about potential earnings from iControlPad2 and Pandora2?

 

[ekianjo]

I'm not sure what do you mean by "these"? Are we still talking about potential earnings from iControlPad2 and Pandora2?

 

I dont remember the details anymore but Craig mentioned once that some of the ICP2 funds would go to the Pandora business. You need to look for the forementioned posts and us follow the outrage that came with it. 

Or using the 1ghz orders money to pay back for "refunds" (claimed by Craig) to justify the fact that the money was gone. Again misuse of said funds. Whatever actually happened to the money, nobody really knows since ED never got much refunds requests. 

But if you dont find anything fishy in all of this, be my guest.