Craig Bashing


sswam

Advanced Member
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Wouldn't it be nice if our threads didn't degenerate into a mindless frenzy of Craig-bashing?
Perhaps the moderators could help with that - oh wait, most of the "moderators" are Craig-bashers too. <contempt>

Thanks for the update MWeston, I hope you did get your hands on the second package.

edit:  If anyone feels they must trash-talk about Craig, would you please do it here rather than in every damn thread?

Maybe a moderator could pin this thread...  but that sounds unlikely.
 
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Wouldn't it be nice if our threads didn't degenerate into a mindless frenzy of Craig-bashing?


Perhaps the moderators could help with that - oh wait, most of the "moderators" are Craig-bashers too. <contempt>


Thanks for the update MWeston, I hope you did get your hands on the second package.
Wouldn't it be nice if Craig would front up and talk to his backers for the first time so you didn't have to bounce around the internet posting death fantasies and other nonsense in defense of your friend?

As for the mods, for the most part they seem to be pretty fair and balanced, even when people (myself included) get a little mouthy.
 
Perhaps the moderators could help with that - oh wait, most of the "moderators" are Craig-bashers too
Perhaps Craig could act as an adult instead, and show up and say what he has to say and answer questions a la AMA on Reddit? How about that? He's too scared to come over here and face his customers?  
 
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If we moderate "Craig Bashing" we are called freedom of speech Nazi's. If we don't we are "Craig bashers"
I didn't mean that. I've observed several moderators actively "Craig bashing" as I call it. Simply not being a freedom of speech Nazi doesn't qualify you as a "Craig basher". But I'd like to think moderators would behave better in public and not set the bad example of personal attacks and all that.
The problem with that is you think posting anything negative about Craig is bashing, even if it's true. And given you've publicly wished the deaths of those who post negative comments about Craig I really don't think you're in a position to complain about anyone else's behavior.
 
And given you've publicly wished the deaths of those who post negative comments about Craig I really don't think you're in a position to complain about anyone else's behavior.
Yeah I don't really wish for you to die - but it's inevitable sooner or later, as I understand.  Many people do commit suicide due to excessive bullying such as you and others are directing at Craig, I don't think anyone would commit suicide due to what I jokingly said about bashing your head on an xbox after a long happy life or whatever it was.  Anyway I'm not protesting to the craig bashing per-se, although I hate it, I'm protesting that EVERY FUCKING THREAD that mentions anything to do with any trouble with Pandora or iCP2 degenerates into Craig bashing - and a lot of other threads do too.  Why don't we have a specific "craig bashing" thread and move all that crap in there?  I'm really sick of reading it, all the same tired old shit over and over again ... even the moderators, saying the same tired old bullying shit over and over again ... don't you guys have a life, something better to do?

I already offered to "refund" your iCP2 money ramboky if you'll go away (or stop posting shit about Craig and "oh where is my iCP2" forever), so please take me up on it and then go away!  (This offer is only available to a very limited number of people that I find especially annoying in this regard.)

And to address your point, even if something is true, it might not be helpful to repeat it over and over again.  For example, if someone is fat and lazy, it would be bullying to say "fat lazy ramboky fat lazy ramboky is fat and lazy" over and over again at every opportunity.  If Craig really was a selfish, habitual liar who can't communicate well (and I totally don't agree with that) it still would not be good for a dozen people to say "Craig is a selfish, lying scum bag who can't communicate" over and over again.
 
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Can we get a thread dedicated to your moaning about people bashing Craig too, please?
 
And given you've publicly wished the deaths of those who post negative comments about Craig I really don't think you're in a position to complain about anyone else's behavior.
Yeah I don't really wish for you to die - but it's inevitable sooner or later, as I understand. Many people do commit suicide due to excessive bullying such as you and others are directing at Craig, I don't think anyone would commit suicide due to what I jokingly said about bashing your head on an xbox after a long happy life or whatever it was. Anyway I'm not protesting to the craig bashing per-se, although I hate it, I'm protesting that EVERY FUCKING THREAD that mentions anything to do with any trouble with Pandora or iCP2 degenerates into Craig bashing - and a lot of other threads do too. Why don't we have a specific "craig bashing" thread and move all that crap in there? I'm really sick of reading it, all the same tired old shit over and over again ... even the moderators, saying the same tired old bullying shit over and over again ... don't you guys have a life, something better to do?


I already offered to "refund" your iCP2 money ramboky if you'll go away (or stop posting shit about Craig and "oh where is my iCP2" forever), so please take me up on it and then go away! (This offer is only available to a very limited number of people that I find especially annoying in this regard.)


And to address your point, even if something is true, it might not be helpful to repeat it over and over again. For example, if someone is fat and lazy, it would be bullying to say "fat lazy ramboky fat lazy ramboky is fat and lazy" over and over again at every opportunity. If Craig really was a selfish, habitual liar who can't communicate well (and I totally don't agree with that) it still would not be good for a dozen people to say "Craig is a selfish, lying scum bag who can't communicate" over and over again.
Its actually a good thing, and it has nothing with bullying someone because they are fat, ugly, lazy or anything. Do not try to deviate the matter at hand to make it seem like discrimination. People actually decided to support and trust Craig and he betrayed their trust over and over.

And this is positive because the more you say it, the more people become aware of it and hopefully will not fall in the next scheme from the said person. This is a way to look out for each other.


Thats social selection occuring before your eyes. Unacceptable behaviors get reported and get well known. You cannot control that information. Welcome to the Internet.
 
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Its actually a good thing, and it has nothing with bullying someone because they are fat, ugly, lazy or anything. Do not try to deviate the matter at hand to make it seem like discrimination. People actually decided to support and trust Craig and he betrayed their trust over and over.


And this is positive because the more you say it, the more people become aware of it and hopefully will not fall in the next scheme from the said person. This is a way to look out for each other.


Thats social selection occuring before your eyes. Unacceptable behaviors get reported and get well known. You cannot control that information. Welcome to the Internet.
I don't really mind people saying "Craig and his company took our money, said it would take 2 months to make the iCP2, and he and his company did not deliver yet after 1 year" a few times here and there.  You could say "Craig chose the wrong manufacturer for Pandora who fucked things up and they lost a lot of money"  (not sure if Craig did make that decision or not).  That should be enough to discourage people who do their homework.

If you like to be fair, you could mention that Craig lost more money than anyone else, he's not profiting from everyone's misery.  If anything he's suffering 100 times more than the people who didn't get their toys yet.

It's when people are throwing around accusations and insults like "craig is fraudster", "craig is asshole", "craig used our money to buy himself a new car" etc.  I don't think that's reasonable.  Also the iCP2 delay of the moment is not down to Craig, if anything it's due to ED's friend not posting the items correctly, or you can blame the postal service / couriers for losing the package, you could also blame mweston for not quitting his day job to develop firmware full time.  But it's always "let's attack Craig" there's no balance or fairness to it really.

He's been bullied and ostracized from the community he helped to create, because maybe one in ten people who pre-ordered still did not get their Pandora, and because he said the iCP2 and Pandora could be built in a short time when that was not realistic.  I know there are other reasons why people are unhappy with him.  But I don't think it is fair to hate on this guy.  He has tried to do his best throughout the project.

For various reasons he has had difficulty, some due to things outside his control, some due to poor decisions or personal issues and despair.  Hating him and attacking him at every opportunity does not help him, and it does not really help anyone else either.
 
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If you like to be fair, you could mention that Craig lost more money than anyone else, he's not profiting from everyone's misery.  If anything he's suffering 100 times more than the people who didn't get their toys yet.
Don't make claims you cannot substantiate. If he was indeed suffering that bad, why restart a project such like the ICP2.

And I'd really like to know what happened with the money he received for the 1Ghz preorder units he never delivered himself and that ED ended up paying for from his own pocket. Do you feel bad for ED sometimes too ?

 Also the iCP2 delay of the moment is not down to Craig
ANd who said : " delivery by end of 2012, just a few months down the road", "regular updates with video of themanufacturing steps", etc... How much bullshit can you personally cope with until enough is enough ? If Craig took a piss on you you would still find him some excuse ? Do you have a conflict of interest you'd like to disclose here to explain why you defend him to the death, and why you seem to be the ONLY one around here doing that ? Is he your childhood friend or something ? 

because maybe one in ten people who pre-ordered still did not get their Pandora, and because he said the iCP2 and Pandora could be built in a short time when that was not realistic
1 in 10 ?? Are you kidding ? How many were actually delivered by ED through his profits and donations instead of Craig ? You better get your figures right. Don't forget to mention the 1Ghz money which disappeared to where no one knows, and for the ICP2 nobody forced his hand to make irrealistic claims. He did it himself and he has to live with the consequences of feeding lies to people. He shou;ld have been aware of how long it takes to manufacture things since he had the Pandora experience. So it was clearly an intended lie, which is even worse than ignorance. 

For various reasons he has had difficulty, some due to things outside his control, some due to poor decisions or personal issues and despair.
Never felt an ounce of despair in his posts, or even regret. He never says sorry, and randomly attacks the "whiners" who ask for their goods, and ED even though ED is the one who helps him getting out of the mud.

Seriously, why are you defending him ? I'd really like to know your true agenda.  
 
Didn't Craig get screwed by all these manufacture companies? Is it really his fault?
 
Didn't Craig get screwed by all these manufacture companies? Is it really his fault?
As far as I understand he did not even sign any thing on paper with them, hence making impossible to claim anything (no contract = no evidence). But even if it was indeed not his fault, this does not excuse any of his ulterior behavior for the 1Ghz and ICP2. For both of these projects the supply was already sorted out, and he still managed to deceit people over and over again on timings and other things. 

But again, I don't have a personal vendetta against Craig, so if you have any element to prove me wrong, I'll change my statement/opinion on these matters. 
 
Seriously, why are you defending him ? I'd really like to know your true agenda.
TLDR: I can see everyone else attacking him left right and center, I don't agree with that, so I'd like to stand against that.

If he was indeed suffering that bad, why restart a project such like the ICP2.
1. because it promises to be a useful and successful device


2. no doubt he hopes to make some money with it, to help with his personal finances, and perhaps fill some more of the old Pandora pre-orders


3. it's a component of his plan for a "Pandora 2", again he might hope to make some money and fix up his personal situation and help fix the old Pandora pre-orders situation.

And I'd really like to know what happened with the money he received for the 1Ghz preorder units he never delivered himself and that ED ended up paying for from his own pocket. Do you feel bad for ED sometimes too ?
I don't know the details of all that, as I understand he had to pay a massive refund or face bankruptcy, and some of the money unfortunately had to be used to pay that refund.


I think all Craig's 1GHz orders have now been filled, I know I received mine (and I specifically asked that it should be shipped last, since I already had two other Pandoras).

ANd who said : " delivery by end of 2012, just a few months down the road", "regular updates with video of the manufacturing steps", etc.
Sure, I don't deny that hasn't turned out as he hoped. There are reasons for this:


- Craig was still starry-eyed optimist at least in his marketing speech, I don't think this is lying as such but it's unrealistic and perhaps deceptive, he should know better that it would take longer. The requirements changed after he made his estimates, with adding the LEDs - it was probably not a good idea to add them but I for one will be very glad to have the backlighting. Realistically it was always going to take time for MWeston to finish the software, too.


- No one can predict the future, shit goes wrong, and things don't happen how we planned. In general any time a politican makes a "promise" or any such thing, we need to realize they're expressing their intentions, and they can't control what actually happens, only do their best and hope for the best.


As for the regular updates and video updates - it would have been nice, but there hasn't really been much to see yet. We're only just getting the first boards from production. He is failing to live up to that promise to do the video updates, possibly due to embarrassment and dejection that it's taking so long. I can understand that - I also tend to go a bit silent if there's some disaster, I feel like avoiding the issue rather than talking about it. I'm sure if everything had gone swimmingly as he hoped, he would have been enthusiastic to make videos and all that. I'm not overly bothered by it.

Do you have a conflict of interest you'd like to disclose here to explain why you defend him to the death, and why you seem to be the ONLY one around here doing that ?
I really hate bullying and don't like to see a whole lot of people ganging up to diss someone who in my opinion does not deserve it to this extent. I also really hate to see people bullying Phil Fish for example, and made posts against that for the same reasons. I don't know Craig very well, but from my few communications with him, reading what he's posted on the boards at and watching his videos on youtube I feel friendly to him and have no complaints about what happened with the Pandoras that I eventually received (after paying a bit extra to help out).

How many were actually delivered by ED through his profits and donations instead of Craig ?
Yeah and I'm one of those donators, partly because I understand that what went wrong is NOT all Craig's fault. If Craig just took all the money and bought a yacht I would tell people to sue him. But that's not what happened. I want to help Craig get out of that bad situation and I want to help the people who didn't get their Pandoras out of that bad situation, so that's why I donated some money.


I do also feel somewhat sorry for ED who is forgoing all profits from his store in order to supply pre-orders, and has done a lot of work for no monetary reward as of yet. He's had a hard time of it too but is not in extra personal debt due to Pandora project as far as I know. And no one is bullying him.  (except you could say Craig when he lost it on a very few random occasions)

By the way, it's nice to be having this discussion / rant-vs-rant in a dedicated thread, so I don't feel we're polluting the boards over much. :)
 
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