Someone unplugs a freezer to charge his mobile phone and 1000 doses of Sputnik V go to waste in Bishkek.
COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
The number of printers I got to work again by plugging them in again after the cleaners came round during the night and unplugged them to plug in their vacuum cleaners doesn't bear counting. I wonder what the odds are it's the cleaners again.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
Speculation about the origin of COVID-19 is heating up again, thanks to a report that says members of the virology lab in Wuhan were sick in November 2019, and a comment by Dr. Fauci saying further investigation could be needed.
I’m kinda weary of anything that puts further strain on our relationship with China. Even if it did come from a lab, I wouldn’t call them out on it.
I’m kinda weary of anything that puts further strain on our relationship with China. Even if it did come from a lab, I wouldn’t call them out on it.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
There's evidence that pneumonia rates were up in France of all places in November 2019. It's not surprising therefore that it was widespread in Wuhan around the same time, even if it wasn't actually detected and sequenced until December.
There were also reports, months ago about SARS-CoV-2 found in wastewater samples from Fall 2019 in a couple of places in southern Europe (Barcelona and Milano maybe?). It seems like they archive samples of wastewater to enable future analyses and that proved useful.
I don't remember the source, but I read it in a few newsstories. I think it was at least half a year ago.
Edit: I didn't remember it exactly. Some sources, not the ones I read originally: October 2019 Florianópolis Brazil, 2019-12-18 Milano, Torino, 2020-01-19 Bologna , 2019-03-12 Barcelona
I don't remember the source, but I read it in a few newsstories. I think it was at least half a year ago.
Edit: I didn't remember it exactly. Some sources, not the ones I read originally: October 2019 Florianópolis Brazil, 2019-12-18 Milano, Torino, 2020-01-19 Bologna , 2019-03-12 Barcelona
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Although I tend to agree with @levi on this that "it's the charging socket I always use, It's mine, what's this long cable? Meh... /yank/". What if it was done on purpose?
The lab was heavily funded by also foreign entities (institutes, countries and organizations). So I guess that those do not want to get associated with this investigation either. So China might pressure with that.
... tough topic.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
If someone did have a beef about vaccines or specifically chinese vaccines, I'd expect them to have actually opened the freezer and smashed the vials, or something rather than unplug the freezer and let it very slowly defrost. If someone had come into work early, they might have spotted it and put the freezer back on, saving the vaccines. If it was done on purpose, it's an easily defeated attack.
ZXDunny
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Vaccinating children makes perfect sense. We do not yet have concrete data on whether or not a vaccinated subject can pass COVID-19 on to others. Children are super-spreaders of pretty much everything they come into contact with. If the vaccine prevents spread then that's one massive vector taken care of. So it's a no-brainer - or we can wait for the data to come in and make a decision much later on, when even more people are dead.
>Vaccinating children makes perfect sense.
No it doesnt.
www.israelnationalnews.com
>We do not yet have concrete data on whether or not a vaccinated subject can pass COVID-19 on to others.
Yes we do. And they do. ("breakthrough cases"). At some point in the $country_i_forgot, the amount in ICU were more than 50% vaccinated people. Now in USA the protocols changed to I think accepting covid after vaccination by lowering the acceptable replication to 26 or so (instead of the default 45). Here's one such articles covering that:
sentinelksmo.org
>Children are super-spreaders of pretty much everything they come into contact with.
Like joy, and love?
>If the vaccine prevents spread then that's one massive vector taken care of.
Can go either way. Vaccinated are more promiscuous, and might become superspreaders. Vaccine might cause quick death, in that case, yes, it prevents spread.
>So it's a no-brainer - or we can wait for the data to come in and make a decision much later on, when even more people are dead.
Your government wants you to not think about it and make it a no-brainer. It seems they've succeeded.
@ZXDunny this post was not to discourage you from posting. But more as an invitation to dialogue (and I hope I can make you re-asses some of your statements.. or not - free will, right to own opinion, and such)
No it doesnt.
93 Israeli doctors: Do not use Covid-19 vaccine on children
"We believe that not even a handful of children should be endangered through mass vaccination against a disease not dangerous to them."
www.israelnationalnews.com
>We do not yet have concrete data on whether or not a vaccinated subject can pass COVID-19 on to others.
Yes we do. And they do. ("breakthrough cases"). At some point in the $country_i_forgot, the amount in ICU were more than 50% vaccinated people. Now in USA the protocols changed to I think accepting covid after vaccination by lowering the acceptable replication to 26 or so (instead of the default 45). Here's one such articles covering that:
CDC: maximum 28 CT for post-vaccine COVID PCR tests - The Sentinel
A 28 CT is recommended to avoid false positives on people who have been vaccinated, but not on everyone else.
sentinelksmo.org
>Children are super-spreaders of pretty much everything they come into contact with.
Like joy, and love?
>If the vaccine prevents spread then that's one massive vector taken care of.
Can go either way. Vaccinated are more promiscuous, and might become superspreaders. Vaccine might cause quick death, in that case, yes, it prevents spread.
>So it's a no-brainer - or we can wait for the data to come in and make a decision much later on, when even more people are dead.
Your government wants you to not think about it and make it a no-brainer. It seems they've succeeded.
@ZXDunny this post was not to discourage you from posting. But more as an invitation to dialogue (and I hope I can make you re-asses some of your statements.. or not - free will, right to own opinion, and such)
If he vaccine prevents the disease for life, then yes, using the too few doses you have on people expected to still have many years before them is probably the best use.
But if the vaccine prevents severe symptoms for just a year, then it doesn't matter.
We may never have it. I linked to some reasearch in England for symptomatic breakthrough infections (they concluded those vaccinated with AZ or Pfizer spread about 50% what unvaccinated spread, under the specific conditions of that limited study).
But discovering asymptomatic breakthrough cases and their contribution to spread is very hard. We may never know. For all we know the vaccines could be turning people into asymptomatic spreaders. I don't mean they do, just that they could.
I'm more worried about relaxing preventive measures (opening restaurants, tourism, etc.) than about all that, but vaccines are used as excuses for reopening, so we have a problem not so much with the vaccines but with our faith in vaccines.
Except COVID-19. I read months ago that children haven't developed much the receptor that SARS-CoV-2 attaches to to open the cell and get inside.
They can get infected, even die, and they can spread, but they do so much less than adults that it doesn't make sense to vaccinate them until the rest of the world is vaccinated.
Unless newer research have found something else out.
We have some data about adults, so we can start with them. Wherever they live. In general I'm against any policy of giving new substances to everyone in case they work. If you don't have data, don't use it.
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Phlyra
FLOSSing
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USAID?
If you are vaccinated you can still be infected and transmit. But having no symptoms means it's much harder to detect and therefor there is less isolation and more spreading. It's like the vaccine is removing a key data point: symptoms. So the disease actually spreads further and faster and the only way to survive is a vaccination subscription. Much more profitable than eradication. Smart.
Yes. I didn't understand you when you said you felt forced to vaccinate. But I understand now. In the end it's not an individual decision, society decides for you, because the risk of staying unvaccinated is no longer the same it was before there were vaccines.
It is higher, as you say. Besides, the opportunity to understand the safety of the vaccine may eventually be lost, when a big part of the population is vaccinated and any side effect is so widespread that becomes expected (the "control group" of unvaccinated people too
small to compare with the vaccinated group). Even without that, if the adverse effects appear very late after vaccination one can reasonably doubt whether vaccination or anything in between is the cause. Of course if the vaccine changes every year one can only hope that the safety results from the last version apply to the new.
As this article says, it's also politically harder to approve restrictive measures to contain spread when all the population has had a chance to get vaccines. It's still needed, because the virus can mutate and break through, but people won't care.
So it's basically be vaccinated or be damned.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
ok mr poo flapper
Not so, you can also have natural antigens by being infected already.
You mean antibodies (or protection in general: antibodies, T-cells, whatever)?
The damnation was precisely the probability of natural infection. Of course it can leave you with natural immunity (for how long?), but it can also kill you.
Being infected (however often) is not a rational choice. If you risk it you risk death and suffering. And passing it along to others who can die and suffer.
Besides vaccines, there may be things you can do to reduce your chances of death if you get infected (try to keep fit and with a healthy immune system, let some sunlight on your skin...) but it's not under your control enough.
To not risk infection you need to isolate, wash hands, wear masks, etc. But it depends on what the people around you do too.
And the people in general is deciding to do nothing or very little to avoid infection and try to offer as many people as possible the vaccine to reduce risk of death once infected.
Under this circumstances the risk is not only defined by the virus, you and the vaccine, but by what others won't do to stop the virus.
The fact that others decide to take the vaccine does not increase the risk of someone who decides not to take it (it decreases it a little).
But the fact that others vaccinate _and reduce prevention_ because they feel they won't die, that does increase risk for someone who decides not to vaccinate (or those who can't get access to vaccines).
So at some point the risk of infection overtakes the risk of the vaccine itself and you simply need to vaccinate (and keep prevention to not threaten those who do not and not farm the virus in general and allow it to eventually break through).
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
The reason people are asking you to increase your likelihood of catching the virus is to help out the economy, although they won't announce it in such dangerous terms.
Phlyra
FLOSSing
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It’s interesting how few people wonder why the economy is so precariously structured, or whether the old “normal” is what we should be striving to return to, that that should be required...
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