Linux-SWAT
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The Guardian citing Libération is like Dumb citing Dumber.
COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic
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JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
There's a new up-and-coming variant that may have the potential to evade immunity. They don't have a catchy name for it yet though.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Based on history, I guess it'll end up being called the Edinburgh virus, to distinguish it from the Kent virus. Or if we're sticking to counties, maybe the Midlothian virus?
One expert! I mean it's true, a mutation could do that, but so far I've seen no evidence of that so far. It's probably more likely as vaccination starts to limit the number of people this virus can infect, due to natural selection, but so far this new variant seem to have similar changes to other variants already found across the world.
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One of its mutations could help it escape neutralizing antibodies, one expert said.One expert! I mean it's true, a mutation could do that, but so far I've seen no evidence of that so far. It's probably more likely as vaccination starts to limit the number of people this virus can infect, due to natural selection, but so far this new variant seem to have similar changes to other variants already found across the world.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
In other news, yesterday the Netherlands had the curfew lifted due to a court case won by Viruswaarheid. The curfew got reinstated yesterday.
I'm wondering: Are there people here who actually want their government to mandate a curfew in their country? It seems to be pretty unpopular. I guess that it may take a few years or months before the people get used to having their basic human rights violated in this way.
I'm wondering: Are there people here who actually want their government to mandate a curfew in their country? It seems to be pretty unpopular. I guess that it may take a few years or months before the people get used to having their basic human rights violated in this way.
Linux-SWAT
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At least, the judiciary system is working in the Netherlands.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Which human rights? As far as I can tell, the curfew supports the right to health, but may interfere with the right to culture, but the Americans believe thare aren't right, but merely goals to aim for. I guess the EU believes in all of these rights though, but I'm not sure what should happen when they come into conflict like this.
Personally I'm in favour of lockdowns. They reduce cases of all host to host infectious disaeases, which is an ideal goal while there is an epidemic on. But I'm not dutch, so perhaps I don't count for you.
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You don't understand that it's unacceptable that a government who did absolutely nothing to prevent the virus from entering the country imprison the innocent people.
You are telling it wrong @λ the β-Redex Reducer The thing is, the temporal-government (it fell already) appealed immediately, and this Friday, after changing all the judges, they will do the appeal. Meanwhile, chambre deliberation is tomorrow Thursday. So you can go out at night until Friday night at least. After that, it might be in the new Dutch Law, and, maybe forever.
@levi There's no-one outside in the night (now in the winter). It causes all sorts of problems. Now true, some groups create (illegal) parties and go party under a bridge. So does it stop this kind of activities? Not really, it give the police some extra grip though. But that's a very narrow amount of population, and the rest of us has to bare it (the police agression, I mean). Talked to an uber bicycle deliverer. He had been stopped every night (3 nights), at least once a night, by the police, to show his paper (that he's working and delivering). Other ex-colleagues also had to show their schiphol badge, but you wear it around your neck already, so they get a pass. Still, need to stop, zip open your jacket, show it, etc. I can't do it with my badge. It's white (because anonymity/safer if lost)
People that help dependent people (care for elderly), also need to go out at night, make soup and help with going to bed and such. Also go back home late. Train late (due to snow on the tracks)? That's right, a fine. etc. My Jumbo supermarket was open until 22:00, now it closes at 20:00 (gives personnel 30 minutes to get home, because they clean up before going home). So if you want to avoid waiting in line, you can only go in the morning, at 8:00. Tried all hours, still reasonably full, except around 15:30 and My favourite hour, 19:00 is now also a timeslot others use.
Anyway, too lazy to find/post the data, but the lockdown did not significantly help.
@levi There's no-one outside in the night (now in the winter). It causes all sorts of problems. Now true, some groups create (illegal) parties and go party under a bridge. So does it stop this kind of activities? Not really, it give the police some extra grip though. But that's a very narrow amount of population, and the rest of us has to bare it (the police agression, I mean). Talked to an uber bicycle deliverer. He had been stopped every night (3 nights), at least once a night, by the police, to show his paper (that he's working and delivering). Other ex-colleagues also had to show their schiphol badge, but you wear it around your neck already, so they get a pass. Still, need to stop, zip open your jacket, show it, etc. I can't do it with my badge. It's white (because anonymity/safer if lost)
People that help dependent people (care for elderly), also need to go out at night, make soup and help with going to bed and such. Also go back home late. Train late (due to snow on the tracks)? That's right, a fine. etc. My Jumbo supermarket was open until 22:00, now it closes at 20:00 (gives personnel 30 minutes to get home, because they clean up before going home). So if you want to avoid waiting in line, you can only go in the morning, at 8:00. Tried all hours, still reasonably full, except around 15:30 and My favourite hour, 19:00 is now also a timeslot others use.
Anyway, too lazy to find/post the data, but the lockdown did not significantly help.
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We just followed what WHO says. At first it was not dangerous, and, suspiciously, they told us to NOT close the borders. Now the WHO says that mouth masks do not help (and some countries now stack two or more of them)...
Here's a thought:
There's a lot of simplistic discussion and advice involved in this pandemic. One example being the various distances one is supposed to stay from others. Six feet? Two metres? One metre? One smoot?
The obvious justification for that is the limited bandwidth of public communication. If your health advice doesn't fit in a catchy three-word slogan, most people will simply ignore it. Furthermore, the press are practically incapable of reporting nuance and uncertainty.
Contrarywise, expressing ideas in the simplest possible terms gives political opponents an easy target for dismissal. By finding a case in which the simplistic rules are not appropriate, one can unfairly deride the entire concept behind those rules.
Personally, I think the vast majority of my acquaintances are better able to judge risk than the powers that be give them credit for - but there's a probably selection bias there. How beneficial is simplistic advice to the average citizen, assuming the idea behind it has some truth?
There's a lot of simplistic discussion and advice involved in this pandemic. One example being the various distances one is supposed to stay from others. Six feet? Two metres? One metre? One smoot?
The obvious justification for that is the limited bandwidth of public communication. If your health advice doesn't fit in a catchy three-word slogan, most people will simply ignore it. Furthermore, the press are practically incapable of reporting nuance and uncertainty.
Contrarywise, expressing ideas in the simplest possible terms gives political opponents an easy target for dismissal. By finding a case in which the simplistic rules are not appropriate, one can unfairly deride the entire concept behind those rules.
Personally, I think the vast majority of my acquaintances are better able to judge risk than the powers that be give them credit for - but there's a probably selection bias there. How beneficial is simplistic advice to the average citizen, assuming the idea behind it has some truth?
Linux-SWAT
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Everyone knew that China was rushing to build hospitals because their situation was critical.We just followed what WHO says. At first it was not dangerous, and, suspiciously, they told us to NOT close the borders. Now the WHO says that mouth masks do not help (and some countries now stack two or more of them)...
A guy told you to pull the trigger, so it's not your fault ? A guy tells you to jump off the cliff and you jump off the cliff ?
Be serious please, every single one of us were witnesses back then.
Do you remember back in March when I wrote that it will be nobody's fault ?
You just don't want to admit that your own "leaders" are murderers because it's terribly disturbing to admit that fact.
We were conditioned to believe that we live in democracies, especially in France "country of the human rights". The pill is hard to swallow but it's not the case.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yes, you're right. I read 'curfew' and substuted in my head 'lockdown' there, which is why I was talking about lockdowns. I don't support nightly curfews, since as you say there are too many reasons why you might need to be justifiable out at such hours.
It's too complex to generalize.
I'm generally favourable to lockdowns and curfews, but it depends on a lot of things, and there should be evidence that they work. It's not a mesure to impose just to look like you're doing something. In some places people do wander at night and gather outside, or even at each other's, be it in parties or in quiter dinners or family meetings, in any case between people that don't live together. That spreads COVID-19, and preventing most people from that or strongly deincentivizing it may improve the situation. Then in some cultures it can be enough to advise people not to do it, in others it may help to set up a curfew so that there're fewer people moving around and random police controls can check there's a reason. It's kind of understandable.
My problem is not so much the balance between right to life and health versus right of meeting and movement, but the detail that what they usually do is to forbid any activity where you don't have to pay. If they leave unessential shops open, theaters, cinemas, restaurants, discos, they let people take the undeground to go work in a weapons factory, but you can't go out at night for dinner at a friend's, then I see a problem. The economy is not above rights and freedoms, and if you ask people to sacrifice social life, then you have to also sacrifice profits. But if you set a lockdown up, and let people go out for sport (alone, outdoor, low risk), buying essentials or work at essential jobs, care for children, elders, etc. and not anything extra, then ok. In this case maybe night curfews are not so needed, because essential activities are already done during the day. I guess curfews are an attempt at having some hours of lockdown and some hours of normal life. They're harder to understand than lockdowns, but they can still make sense. I think it all depends a lot on the details, it's not so much "curfew yes" or "curfew no". It depends on what's allowed and what not, how is the place, the culture and habits of the people... And yes, if you are so bad as having to take these measures you should also close borders and not only state borders but limit traffic between smaller areas depending on the incidence of the pandemic there.
You know what I've found funny ? I've heard (I don't know whether I should believe it) that there've been demonstrations with barricades on fire, broken windows, you know, riot/revolution style that then when the curfew time comes, everybody suddenly goes away and comes back home. Wtf?
I'm generally favourable to lockdowns and curfews, but it depends on a lot of things, and there should be evidence that they work. It's not a mesure to impose just to look like you're doing something. In some places people do wander at night and gather outside, or even at each other's, be it in parties or in quiter dinners or family meetings, in any case between people that don't live together. That spreads COVID-19, and preventing most people from that or strongly deincentivizing it may improve the situation. Then in some cultures it can be enough to advise people not to do it, in others it may help to set up a curfew so that there're fewer people moving around and random police controls can check there's a reason. It's kind of understandable.
My problem is not so much the balance between right to life and health versus right of meeting and movement, but the detail that what they usually do is to forbid any activity where you don't have to pay. If they leave unessential shops open, theaters, cinemas, restaurants, discos, they let people take the undeground to go work in a weapons factory, but you can't go out at night for dinner at a friend's, then I see a problem. The economy is not above rights and freedoms, and if you ask people to sacrifice social life, then you have to also sacrifice profits. But if you set a lockdown up, and let people go out for sport (alone, outdoor, low risk), buying essentials or work at essential jobs, care for children, elders, etc. and not anything extra, then ok. In this case maybe night curfews are not so needed, because essential activities are already done during the day. I guess curfews are an attempt at having some hours of lockdown and some hours of normal life. They're harder to understand than lockdowns, but they can still make sense. I think it all depends a lot on the details, it's not so much "curfew yes" or "curfew no". It depends on what's allowed and what not, how is the place, the culture and habits of the people... And yes, if you are so bad as having to take these measures you should also close borders and not only state borders but limit traffic between smaller areas depending on the incidence of the pandemic there.
You know what I've found funny ? I've heard (I don't know whether I should believe it) that there've been demonstrations with barricades on fire, broken windows, you know, riot/revolution style that then when the curfew time comes, everybody suddenly goes away and comes back home. Wtf?
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In the original thread? I vaguely remember. I still want those incompetent people (starting with the WHO) on trial. I still am asking questions about why WHO waited more than a year to visit Wuhan Lab to "investigate" and immediately draws the conclusion that it was not the ground zero. Sure, after a year there is nothing to see there, all traces/tracks cleaned.
About the cliff thing... no cliffs please.
It's not the reasons... it's the prohibition that stresses people out. Dutch are quite good at being good citizens. (We have lots of rules, but they are not enforced if they take too much resources)
The original idea was "flatten the curve". We did not stop the virus, it will be with us from now on. If we could not get rid of influenza, rhinovirus, or others... so we won't with this one.
Hugging people actually increases your defenses. (of course, if the one that wants a hug is coughing like he/she has pneumonia, think twice before doing that
)Not breathing stops the virus too. It might be harder to understand... does it still make sense?
The fines in the Netherlands go up to 1000 euro or so. I would be home too, I do not have that money.
But in all fairness: Those are law-abiding citizens, that will stick to voluntary government request rules. Just not the way the government did, bypassing all legislature. That's a despot's way to do things. Besides, it makes your house your prison at night. And in non-democratic countries, that's the moment that they come for you; and if you are not home, that might become illegal too.
Fit with Pyra! \(･ω･)ﾉ ◦❧◦°˚°◦.¸¸◦° °◦¸¸.◦°˚°◦☙◦
Gotten fat during lockdown? Need to lose weight? No problem! Download this DBP and Put your Pyra in your cargopants!
The Pyra has a high quality motion sensor that knows exactly what you are doing:
Running, jumping, skating, it can even detect if you are going up the stairs.
Combined with the GPS chip it calculates how many steps you make in a mile. And if your pace changes, it takes a few extra GPS coordinates to calculate your new average speed. The GPS is not always-on, so you can run for up to 40 hours with one single charge.
As with any Linux, you can run also your favourite music player, to have music while you run.
Export to csv to keep your progress data without being locked into any software vendor.
Each time you reach your self-defined goals, you get to see one cute cat video! (disclaimer: internet access required)
Cargopants not included.
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Linux-SWAT
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How To Fall 35,000 Feet and Survive - Slashdot
Massachusetts-based amateur historian Jim Hamilton, who developed the Free Fall Research Page -- an online database of nearly every imaginable human plummet, documents one case of a sky diver who, upon total parachute failure, was saved by bouncing off high-tension wires. Contrary to popular...
science.slashdot.org
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And I frankly don't give a sh*t about the WHO because I live in France, and the catastrophe we are living here was completely avoidable.
Here are proofs from 2010 and 2012 that politicians were informed about the lack of structures able to handle this kind of epidemic.
And guess who warned them ?
I strongly suggest everyone to watch these videos from the french senate.
Here are proofs from 2010 and 2012 that politicians were informed about the lack of structures able to handle this kind of epidemic.
And guess who warned them ?
I strongly suggest everyone to watch these videos from the french senate.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
By way of @Swordfish II there is evidence of recombination producing a new variant that could be the deadliest of them all.
www.newscientist.com
I'm not quite sure what recombination is, but I think basically two variants had sex and made a baby.
Exclusive: Two variants have merged into heavily mutated coronavirus
The UK and California variants of coronavirus appear to have combined into a heavily mutated hybrid, sparking concern that we may be entering a new phase of the covid-19 pandemic
I'm not quite sure what recombination is, but I think basically two variants had sex and made a baby.
I have no idea about all that, but I'm not all that surprised. Since variants are happening (due to reckless behaviour, weak restrictions, ill fate or whatever the cause is) they were bound to recombine sometime.By way of @Swordfish II there is evidence of recombination producing a new variant that could be the deadliest of them all.
Exclusive: Two variants have merged into heavily mutated coronavirus
The UK and California variants of coronavirus appear to have combined into a heavily mutated hybrid, sparking concern that we may be entering a new phase of the covid-19 pandemic
I'm not quite sure what recombination is, but I think basically two variants had sex and made a baby.
I guess I'm happy that they caught it apparently soon. I guess for now they can only extra isolate the known cases and keep watching.
I think yes, recombination has the effect of making a baby which inheritates part of the both genomes, but the process is not quite like sex. There's not so much two copies of every gene with either the one from the father or from the mother being active, or both simultaneously. It's more like messing up copy&paste. And for it to happen a single cell has to be infected twice from different variants of the virus, so it's quite random. But with millions of viruses of each variant going around, it may happen eventually.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
The rights violated by lockdown:
9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. (curfew is detention in one's own home)
12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. (We are not allowed to properly take care of the elderly anymore not are we allowed more than 1 visitor per day)
13. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
17. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property. (People are being deprived of their businesses right now. Try running a business without being allowed to run it.)
20. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (Police has been attacking peaceful gatherings and peaceful protects using armies.)
23. (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (again, taking away businesses)
25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (lockdown increases depression and suicide rates and forces people into poverty)
There are more that are being violated. But these are the most obvious.
You count. I meant if you would want a lockdown like this (with curfew) in your own country, whatever that is, not if you would want lockdown in the Netherlands, unless that is your country. I know that the people here tend to be pretty far on the statist side but I'm curious as to how far that goes.
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Actually, the Judge's ruling is overruled on the same day, rendering the victory in court practically meaningless. And this followed a lot of court cases with obviously biases judges. These court cases can be viewed on-line and I recommend watching them if you know Dutch.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Coronavirus COVID-19
Actuele informatie over het coronavirus COVID-19. Zoals adviezen om luchtweginfecties te voorkomen.
www.rijksoverheid.nl
As I heard it we're supposed to obey curfew at least until Friday when there will be further notice.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Curfew is part of lockdown. But yeah, I meant lockdown to the extend of having curfew as well. The Netherlands keeps getting more locked down. "Just hold on a little while longer" predictably (to me, at least) was an empty encouragement from our prime minister. As empty as "Just two weeks to flatten the curve" was.
Actually, flattening the curve supposedly works like this:
So how come that not obeying caused the pandemic to supposedly last longer now according to some people? The poeple who did not obey should have been dead and overburdened the hospitals causing the pandemic to be over sooner, but they're still alive and well and hospitals are empty (with many even taking up choreographed dancing to kill some time).
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