Can We Get A N64 Emulator At All?

[TelcoLou]

So, you all would rather have this .... another pointless flame fest, complete with outright name-calling then a locked topic which, IMO would put an abrupt halt to all this negative discussion.

Have at it folks :lol:

 

[Shikaku]

Nintendo made a N64 emulator on the Gamecube specifically for Zelda OoT and MM...

No, I'm not defending the fact that N64 emulation is possible on the GP2X, I can easily say: IMPOSSIBLE.

The end!

 

[LordJohnnie]

This is the reason we cannot have a honest and competent discussion about emulation on the GP2X. A related point is that the term "N00b" was invented and now only used by N00bs themselves; Elitism is most prevalent and accepted where there is no consequence for idiocy.

I never said that the first xbox emulators use dynamic recompilation, I said that they used nearly exclusivley the concept of dynamic recompilation. This being the natural direction of emulation. People want to twist terms and definitions to make others look stupid. Well, pat yourself on the back for trolling. (I'm increadibly impressed by some peoples' wiki searching skills.)

A side note is the contrast between the cultural nature of the emulation scene surrounding playstation 1 emulation and that of N64 emulation. Emulation of playstation 1 was so previlent, so widespread that the community surrounding it truly understood and developed the ideas and philosophies best used to bring PSX emulation to life. However, as the pioneers of N64 emulation faded, there was only a few developers, nobody tried to code a software renderer, why? because of the deep seeded bias. Everyone either coded or ran N64 emulators on "daddy bought" high-end PC's. Real emulation development was slipping away. On the other hand, software renderer or low-end GPU's for playstation emulators are abundant. It is not hard to see the stark contrast between those two schools of thought. Or rather the school of thought and no thought.

The same is true when it comes to emulation on the GP2X. One person suggests that PSX emulation can be done, 99% of the group denounces it. All based on bias and fear of being seperated from the trend. If you say what all your buddies say; "oh, I'm not watching that movie because my friend said it's stupid" you are more like mindless fodder than you are a competent thinker.

But to get back to the topic of this thread. Why can't N64 emulation work on the GP2X? WTF do you want? full and complete simulation of a N64 hardware with all the bells and whistles? (even those the user doesn't experience?) or do you want a satisfactory recreation of the N64? And to burst your bubble further, there is no emulator on the GP2X that is a complete simulation of ANY videogame hardware or console. So holding on to that Freudian, outdated, biased, conservative definition of "emulation" is nothing more than generic, biased bigotry.

If these forums became a congress that decided what was to be developed for the GP2X and what wasn't, there would be no emulators beyond that of those for the ATARI and C64. Because according to posts in this forum as of november of 2005, no other emulators would run at fullspeed on the GP2X.

Ah, how truth and time silences these forums.

 

[Ravnos]

Are you going to actually make some technical arguments for why decent N64 emulation is possible or is "anything is possible if you have enough faith!" the crux of your position?

 

[LordJohnnie]

If "Faith" is a hot chick, then yeah, it can be the crux of my position anyday.

And no, I won't qoute my own technical arguments for you. that would be giving you more assistance than you would admit to needing.

 

[Ravnos]

Ah, so basically you have nothing substantial to say, no demonstrated technical competence and just enjoy trolling. If this is not the case, then back up your position with better logic than you've demonstrated or kindly fuck off.

 

[icurafu]

If these forums became a congress that decided what was to be developed for the GP2X and what wasn't, there would be no emulators beyond that of those for the ATARI and C64. Because according to posts in this forum as of november of 2005, no other emulators would run at fullspeed on the GP2X.

Ah, how truth and time silences these forums.

​

lol, this isn't middle school debating. There's no rewards for cliches.

I was here November and people were confident that atleast megadrive would be running full speed for the typical game. PS1, Neogeo MVS, SNES and GBA were debated and are still debatable now.

 

[iignotus]

LordJohnnie, you have some serious life issues. You appear to lack the basic skills required to make a coherent and consice argument. I have gotten nothing from any of your posts except for a headache. If you don't like this forum or this community, leave; I'm sure there are many other places that would love to have someone with your unprecidented ability to write lofty expositions filled with misplaced cliches and aphorisms.

All of us are waiting for any actual proof to the contrary of what you're debating. One point you bring up repeatedly is that everyone said PSX emulation on the GP2X is impossible, and that we've all been proven wrong and oh, how the mighty have fallen, blah blah etcetera.

Even though zodttd has done incredible work with the PSX emulator for many handhelds, it is still very far from playable for a vast majority of the games. The N64 is a much more complicated system than the PSX, and yet you imply that you are privy to some secret of emulation that will allow for near-fullspeed N64 emulation on the GP2X. It's a ridiculous claim, but then again, you knew that, and we're all wrong.

 

[jbrodack]

If you believe it you can achieve it

 

[thelamer]

If you believe it you can achieve it

​

Nope , not with this hardware . It isn't an issue of talented code it is the big issue of having no 3d acceleration . All the present n64 emulators require some kind of 3d ( opengl ) . And I can make a 100% garuntee that it will never run on this hardware .

Even if you had every developer at Nintendo working full time for a year . period

 

[Jurrasic]

Put a wizard coding team very familiar with ARM ASM in place with an optimized HLE coding structure ALA CORN or UltraHLE and a really really good software 3-d renderer, and it's possible.

However this kind of effort is not likely to be done by homebrew-level coders, it would require the skills of people who have for many years been and expect to be paid for their work. I think this is all flapping in the breeze, and we should all be grateful for what we have already by the amazingly talented programmers already doing miracles with our fave toy.

 

[mattyrb]

someone close this thread before the nukes are let off

 

[nickspoon]

You can achieve it. Whether or not it runs at over one frame per hour is another matter.

 

[Gruntfuggly]

And to burst your bubble further, there is no emulator on the GP2X that is a complete simulation of ANY videogame hardware or console.

What do you base that statement on? Isn't that exactly what MAME (for example) currently is - a complete emulation (not simulation - why do you use the words as if they are interchangable?) of the original hardware, including sound, graphics and CPU processors...

 

[Gruntfuggly]

someone close this thread before the nukes are let off

​

Not yet - as long as we could drop the 'fuck offs' and the 'noob' banter, I think this is quite an interesting debate, although admittedly it has been done before...

 

[critical]

Isn't that exactly what MAME (for example) currently is - a complete emulation (not simulation - why do you use the words as if they are interchangable?) of the original hardware, including sound, graphics and CPU processors...

​

Some of GP2X MAME is simulation (some sound hardware, for instance). Since this thread seems to be striving for accuracy.

 

[Squidge]

Put a wizard coding team very familiar with ARM ASM in place with an optimized HLE coding structure ALA CORN or UltraHLE and a really really good software 3-d renderer, and it's possible.

​

Forget about N64 emulation as a whole - Can someone tell me how to emulate a 90Mhz customized R4000 MIPS on a 200Mhz ARM9 and have any cycle time leftover whatsoever ? You might get close with carefully crafted DynaRec, but as soon as you start handling the memory sub-system and fpu, it's just going to drag performance through the floor.

And if you can't emulate even the processor at a decent speed, what chance is there with the rest of the system?

 

[Emu&Co]

Why should we use a dynamic Recompiler? A static Recompiler would be much faster. Incompatible without a laaarge Config File, but fast. Corn did that way and was very fast on a 180 MHz Pentium. That would be the ONLY Way to get a close to playable N64 Emulator.

 

[Squidge]

A 180Mhz Pentium would absolutely kill a 200Mhz ARM9 - you can't compare the two.

Yes, recompiling the entire code in one go will be faster, but you still have the problem with memory accesses - you can't determine these until the instructions are actually executed, so they are still going to drop the speed of emulation by a significant amount.

Also, you still have the problem with the FPU which you need to emulate in software.

 

[LordJohnnie]

There is something about these forums that brings the sadist out of Johnny Depp. (Or should I say iignotus? lol)

And I will grow old and die while waiting for people here to actually READ my posts and have a change of fart.. *cough* I mean heart.

Perhaps it is the word "emulation" that is the killer of this thread and gives fuel to screamers of the word "NO." You all seem to be experts as to what the GP2X cannot do, but do any of you actually know what the GP2X can do?

An early reply here in this thread responded to my notion that we can "clone" an N64 game, and his regurgitated response was a mumbling about the availablity of "source code" to allow for "porting" of a game. Emulated hardware works directly with the "source" of a rom and emulation developers reverse engineer both. Whats more available than that?

there is a link between the concept of dynamic recompilation and that of "cloning" or "porting" a game/engine/software.

I actually feel bad for the monkies that bang thier head against the wall over this, wearing T-shirts that say "N64 emulation = impossible." So, I'm going to point out that if the definition of "emulation" is the full and complete simulation of videogame/console hardware, then no, of course the GP2X cannot "emulate" the N64. However, if the definition of "emulation" is infact "the practical and satisfactory virtualization of a videogame/console" then the answer is Yes, the GP2X can emulate N64 games.

My suggestion is to use a kind of static recompilation (to steal the phrase from Emu&Co). To simplify the code in the rom so that it may run more "natively," allowing N64 games to be "emulated" using a simplified 3D engine. We would be essentially "porting" N64 games so they run natively on the GP2X.

A homebrew clone of the game would basically be the same thing, having the same look and feel as the original N64 game, but authenticity would be a huge undertaking without the use of precise recompilation of the rom's code.

Ya know, Personally I'd rather see N69 games being "emulated" on the GP2X.