trooper
Trooper`s watching you !!!
YouTube: Street fighter II on the ZX Spectrum
Trooper
Trooper
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N64
- Thread starter Destructo2000
- Start date
That statement ("What i am going to say is nothing is impossible on a console/handheld/computer") is wrong though. That is the point that was made. I hate when someone says something to the effect(and it happens here alot) "If you just believe, anything can be possible". Many things yes but not *anything*. There are things that ARE impossible on a system in this case a GP2X. The hardware is a known and finite thing. There is no "magic dust" inside that can grow by energy generated from wishful thinking, or even great coding, into something more powerful than what is actually in there.foleyjo said:
It also depends on what you consider "possible" to mean. An N64 emu IS possible if you don't mind it running at FS 178 with no sound. It is NOT possible if you mean something that can actually be playable which would be fullspeed at 15 FPS without sound. I still consider that unplayable but some may not. Even at those lowly criteria, N64 is not feasible on this hardware. The more powerful PSP with 3D hardware can't even do it fullspeed yet although it certainly has a better chance to.
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zodttd
Solving your premature emulation since the Tapwave
DaveC: You don't understand that to a developer, by saying things like "An N64 emu IS possible if you don't mind it running at FS 178 with no sound." is annoying too. Your weird conclusions on how an emulator gets it's performance is a bit off. It's as if you never went to medical school but watch a hospital drama and say "That surgery is impossible! They never could done a triple bypass on that patient!" Sure it's fun to play doctor when you're at home. But would you say that in front of a bunch of doctors?
My problem with your response to this discussion and others you've had on topics like this and PSX, isn't your conclusion, it's how you got there.
I never worked on an emulator that translated a 64bit CPU. My best guess is that alone makes it difficult to handle on a 32bit CPU. Why I think this is because handling values greater than 32bit's takes extra instructions on a 32bit cpu to handle. There's probably ways to handle situations like this though. There's a lot I don't know about the N64's hardware, but my guess is it's highly impractical to get it working on an ARM handheld such as the GP2X. I don't see it being feasible.
But you consistently just throw out random quotes mentioning how it will need a high frameskip and won't handle sound. Things like this sound fairly stupid sounding to most. Maybe the graphics rendering is very effiencent on a certain host platform. Then frameskip doesn't mean squat. And the same with the sound processing/rendering. You get thrown an easy one, the N64 with it's 64bit processor, yet you spit out things that don't make sense.
So DaveC and others who want to put up or shut up, while I agree with your conclusion, answer me this:
Why would you conclude that the N64 is impossible to ever be fullspeed on the GP2X?
^-- I don't even believe you know why, you assume.
My problem with your response to this discussion and others you've had on topics like this and PSX, isn't your conclusion, it's how you got there.
I never worked on an emulator that translated a 64bit CPU. My best guess is that alone makes it difficult to handle on a 32bit CPU. Why I think this is because handling values greater than 32bit's takes extra instructions on a 32bit cpu to handle. There's probably ways to handle situations like this though. There's a lot I don't know about the N64's hardware, but my guess is it's highly impractical to get it working on an ARM handheld such as the GP2X. I don't see it being feasible.
But you consistently just throw out random quotes mentioning how it will need a high frameskip and won't handle sound. Things like this sound fairly stupid sounding to most. Maybe the graphics rendering is very effiencent on a certain host platform. Then frameskip doesn't mean squat. And the same with the sound processing/rendering. You get thrown an easy one, the N64 with it's 64bit processor, yet you spit out things that don't make sense.
So DaveC and others who want to put up or shut up, while I agree with your conclusion, answer me this:
Why would you conclude that the N64 is impossible to ever be fullspeed on the GP2X?
^-- I don't even believe you know why, you assume.
LegendaryMachine
Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
- Messages
- 115
*ehem*
zodttd ftw, as always.
zodttd ftw, as always.
Squidge
Certified Guru
I reckon someone should just port a N64 emu to the GP2X, and then at least we'll move from the "Why don't we have a N64 emu" to "Why is the N64 emu so slow", and DaveC can have his 178 frame skip.
Tell me Dave, do you think the N64 emu will run full speed if it didn't output any sound, or display any graphics? (Ie, infinite frameskip) ? I'm interested to know.
Tell me Dave, do you think the N64 emu will run full speed if it didn't output any sound, or display any graphics? (Ie, infinite frameskip) ? I'm interested to know.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
I desperately hope you're not being serious.foleyjo said:
If so wtf are you talking about
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Exophase said:I desperately hope you're not being serious.foleyjo said:
If so wtf are you talking about
Deadly serious. :blink:
Nah I just read on the freedo thread about the 3DO simulator rather than emulator thought id pretend I knew what the difference was :lol:
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Squidge
Certified Guru
Exophase said:I desperately hope you're not being serious.foleyjo said:
I think he's taking the piss out of the Freedo developer
"Emulation is too slow, Freedo simulates instead."
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
foleyjo said:Exophase said:I desperately hope you're not being serious.foleyjo said:
If so wtf are you talking about
Deadly serious. :blink:
Nah I just read on the freedo thread about the 3DO simulator rather than emulator thought id pretend I knew what the difference was :lol:
That's what I figured. I don't think saying "simulates instead of emulates" means anything.
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Doubtful. emulating a 90 MHz MIPs on a 240 MHz 32 bit ARM would not leave many cycles for other things like joystick input etc. Even if you could emulate the CPU 1:1 instruction for instruction, you would not have much left. Then there is the floating point math. How would that be done with the few spare cycles when there is no FPU? Not very well I would bet. You are already screwed and not a single pixel is drawn yet. But I am no coder so it is an educated guess.Squidge said:
If you did output sound and graphics then of course no fuckin' way.
I do assume, yes you are right. But I think it is a pretty safe assumption. Not being a coder I can't give you exact specific examples about how many registers there are and how many clock ticks you spend trying to make up for the missing hardware etc. My above reasons are pretty much my reasons. Feel free to shoot them down and tell us the real reasons why it is not possible and enlighten us.zodttd said:
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Squidge
Certified Guru
Personally, I say that was pretty much spot on. I don't think a proper developer could answer with much more unless they actually went away and tried stuff out for themselves.
Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
* looks at his dell axim gathering dust in the cupboard *
Pity it's get such shit gaming controls
Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
* looks at his dell axim gathering dust in the cupboard *
Pity it's get such shit gaming controls
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Wait, since when does that have an FPU?Squidge said:Personally, I say that was pretty much spot on. I don't think a proper developer could answer with much more unless they actually went away and tried stuff out for themselves.
Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
* looks at his dell axim gathering dust in the cupboard *
Pity it's get such shit gaming controls
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Squidge
Certified Guru
Damnit! Ok, you got me B)
But in my defence, at least the x50v has 3D support
But in my defence, at least the x50v has 3D support
fusion_power
Advanced Member
Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
No, you just need a 300MHz CPU + a Voodoo 2 Graphic Board which supports Glide... and UlraHLE runs superb, belive me. Many, many, many Years ago I was able to enjoy this amazing Emulator on PC. I think it had the best, closest MHz relation between Emulated Console and Emulating PC if you compare N64 with PC's of 1998-2000. Noone knows, how they've made it but I never saw a similar powerful Emultion on PC than N64. ^^""
No, you just need a 300MHz CPU + a Voodoo 2 Graphic Board which supports Glide... and UlraHLE runs superb, belive me.
Many, many, many Years ago I was able to enjoy this amazing Emulator on PC. I think it had the best, closest MHz relation between Emulated Console and Emulating PC if you compare N64 with PC's of 1998-2000. Noone knows, how they've made it but I never saw a similar powerful Emultion on PC than N64. ^^""
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trooper
Trooper`s watching you !!!
fusion_power said:Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
No, you just need a 300MHz CPU + a Voodoo 2 Graphic Board which supports Glide... and UlraHLE runs superb, belive me.
Yeah, But try sticking one of them in your pocket. :rolleyes:
The voodoo 2 card alone was bigger that the GP2x. :blink:
Trooper
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fusion_power
Advanced Member
trooper said:fusion_power said:Now, if we had a 600mhz CPU + 3D + FPU, we might stand a chance of getting something playable
No, you just need a 300MHz CPU + a Voodoo 2 Graphic Board which supports Glide... and UlraHLE runs superb, belive me.
Yeah, But try sticking one of them in your pocket. :rolleyes:
The voodoo 2 card alone was bigger that the GP2x. :blink:
Trooper
Sure, it was just a theoretical Processor-Power comparison. Today, a complete Vodoo2 Graphic board (or something with equal Graphic Power) could fit into a normal (integrated) processor size I think.
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Squidge
Certified Guru
Your thinking PC rather than Embedded. It's true a 300MHZ Intel Pentium processor or equivalent would probably do the job, specially when coupled with a 3D accelerator. However, the processor alone would eat the battery in a few minutes.fusion_power said:No, you just need a 300MHz CPU + a Voodoo 2 Graphic Board which supports Glide... and UlraHLE runs superb, belive me.
That's why I suggested a 600Mhz processor - something like a Intel XScale with Intel graphics technology, as used in the X50V.
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