Batch 2 Release Date

[JerryG20]

Thanks for your response, Jerry. I think I follow, now.

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I must respond to this, though. I wasn't tricked - I know the difference between "Gb" and "GB". However, *so* many people write "Gb" or "gb" and actually mean "GB", I tend to end up with this mental "filter" for the former two when I'm reading, and simply thought that the same had happened here. :lol: My apologies for the assumption. (I'm fairly certain you'll have seen what I mean in countless places, though, so hopefully you know what I mean. :lol: )

Maybe "trick" was the wrong word, but nonetheless it made you think I meant 1 Gigabyte of RAM (which is obviously incorrect), and that was what the marketing technique employed by Craig (unless it was somebody else responsible??) on the official website (and I know I'm not the only one that doesn't like it when companies, such as internet providers, use this for marketing/advertising; they're misleading people).

 

[WizardStan]

Jerry, can I ask a question? What are you hoping to accomplish? Not to long ago you seemed quite interested in the Pandora, but now it looks like the gloves are off and the tinfoil hat is on. If you're not interested anymore, why not just ask for a refund and move on? Why hang around trying to stir up trouble over something you've obviously become disillusioned over?

 

[JerryG20]

Jerry, can I ask a question? What are you hoping to accomplish? Not to long ago you seemed quite interested in the Pandora, but now it looks like the gloves are off and the tinfoil hat is on. If you're not interested anymore, why not just ask for a refund and move on? Why hang around trying to stir up trouble over something you've obviously become disillusioned over?

I'm still interested since there's no replacement product I can see for the Pandora. I guess I'm just a little frustrated over how long it's taken and all the misleading statements and what not. Sorry, I should just step back, take a breather, and cool my jets.

 

[Prometheus]

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It was nothing to do with "tricks" or "marketing techniques" or being made to think anything, really - it's entirely to do with long spells spent providing computing assistance elsewhere, often to folks to whom "GB", "Gb", and "gb" are the same thing. Like I said, mental filter based on posting habits I've encountered in the past. It's perfectly easily spotted in marketing (it's something vendors of fake flash media used to use, even, and that's a topic I try to keep up with ). I just can't say I've seen it with the Pandora's marketing, and I've followed it for as long as I can remember, really (been a reader here since I had my GP2X, when I had it).

Anyway, I guess you're off cooling your jets now, so I suppose that's pretty much all there is to say. (Although I admit I am now wondering how I missed these posts where people were "tricked"... :huh: ).

 

[VRAndy]

Jerry, can I ask a question? What are you hoping to accomplish? Not to long ago you seemed quite interested in the Pandora, but now it looks like the gloves are off and the tinfoil hat is on. If you're not interested anymore, why not just ask for a refund and move on? Why hang around trying to stir up trouble over something you've obviously become disillusioned over?

It is not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to quote Craig's own posts to refute people who say "Craig never said X!"

It is not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora has mislead us.

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

 

[JerryG20]

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I know I'm "cooling my jets," but I think it's reasonable for me to provide an example here because some people don't know what I'm referring to:

Here's the original thread:

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...=39711&st=0

And here are some quick quotes from that thread:

Also advertising ram size in bit... thats just pure lameness.

im shocked :-/

QUOTE
Nope, one Gb of ram which = 128 MB of ram.
Yea just read that elsewheres.... thats retarded and not the kind of media hype i respect.

*snip*

It's had the ram boosted from 128mb to 1gb - I mean, what on EARTH are we going to use 1gb of ram for unless we can get some commercial devs to start attacking this properly.

*snip*

EDIT: Just read the bit/byte thing. I'm afraid that's very underhand - if it is in bits, it should definitely be changed, because that'll piss potential newbies off. Let alone us lot.

Oh and if it isn't 1 GigaBYTE drop that marketing crap at ONCE!

I must agree that it would be best to state the RAM in MB, not Gb. Whether it was an innocent mistake or not, it does come across as trying to make a product look much better than it is, getting one up on the consumer. This could put people off.

 

[eridium]

You guys REALLY need to get a life.

Just to get a tidbit of REAL information, I have to sift through hundreds of posts by the same
few people whining about how the Pandora Team did this or that to them or how they are
being lied too or how long it's taking to get their Pandora and the list goes on.

Considering the issues they have had to deal with, the Pandora Team has been doing a decent job.
No it hasn't been perfect, but then by far neither are any of you.

My advice; Take a walk outside, it's summer. Find a tree, sit down, relax and read a book.
If that is beyond your capacity, then download some audiobooks to your ipod and do the same.
Soon your Pandora will arrive and you can spend hours playing with it along with the rest of us.

Let's clear up the bandwidth for the real information.

*out*

 

[VRAndy]

No it hasn't been perfect, but then by far neither are any of you.
I am.

 

[Prometheus]

@JerryG20 - Thanks muchly, man. That clears it up.

 

[Monk]

Jerry, can I ask a question? What are you hoping to accomplish? Not to long ago you seemed quite interested in the Pandora, but now it looks like the gloves are off and the tinfoil hat is on. If you're not interested anymore, why not just ask for a refund and move on? Why hang around trying to stir up trouble over something you've obviously become disillusioned over?

It is not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to quote Craig's own posts to refute people who say "Craig never said X!"

It is not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora has mislead us.

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

I'd also like to add that quoting Craig, or being annoyed with him (or thw whole team, or with Faith or with the guy who did QC on the board MP tests or... whatever) does not equal a lack of interest in the Pandora. It MIGHT cause it in some, at some stage, but it doesn't equal it.

 

[EvilDragon]

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

So... umm... you can handle things better?
You KNEW the money would freeze?
You KNEW how long the moulding would take?
You KNEW that our nubs company would file bankruptcy?
You KNEW that we had to make some minor fixed in boards and cases before we could test them?

Wow, you seem to know an awful lot of things.
Maybe you could tell me what problem we'll have next. 'cause I DON'T know

 

[Bosbeetle]

In the netherlands we have a saying that the best steerers are standing on the docks. And this is clearly the case here. VRandy get in the boat and create a handheld of your own.

 

[sbock]

@JerryG20
Full Ack! Good posts.

I think it's really no problem that the Pandora is delayed. Heck, the Wiz, the PS3, my cell phone SE 990 don't arrive at time too.
But it does matter what I claim and what I tell people when announcing a product...

Just my 2 cents and no offence at all...

 

[Pleng]

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

So... umm... you can handle things better?
You KNEW the money would freeze?
You KNEW how long the moulding would take?
You KNEW that our nubs company would file bankruptcy?
You KNEW that we had to make some minor fixed in boards and cases before we could test them?

Wow, you seem to know an awful lot of things.
Maybe you could tell me what problem we'll have next. 'cause I DON'T know


To be fair ED, none of the criticism I've read in this thread point to the point to the technical issues. They're targeted pretty much 100% at Craig an his horrendously over-optimistic attitude. The three issues I have seen referred to in this thread so far are:

• "I'm prepared to say July" ™ and other such misleading predictions which were later shown to have proved inaccurate at the time they were said.
• 1Gb Ram fiasco - I came to Open Pandora pretty late and am pretty shocked to see that Craig ever dreamed of trying to pull that one!
• Craig announcing that there was no way pre-order money would be taken until the thing was nearly ready to roll

None of those have anything to do with the issues you listed, with the possible exception of the final one - but even then it was an ill-educated thing to say!

 

[Monk]

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

So... umm... you can handle things better?
You KNEW the money would freeze?
You KNEW how long the moulding would take?
You KNEW that our nubs company would file bankruptcy?
You KNEW that we had to make some minor fixed in boards and cases before we could test them?

Wow, you seem to know an awful lot of things.
Maybe you could tell me what problem we'll have next. 'cause I DON'T know :"] [/quote]Please enhance your calm. The criticisms seem to be mostly - if not completely - aimed at Craig's "enthusiastic" reports/appraisals of things. A slinging match between OIpenPandora and its customers might not be the very best thing we could have at this juncture.

On the subject of project management, I doubt anyone who had all the facts available to OpenPandora this time last year (which includes NONE of us mere customers) would have been able to predict exactly WHAT would have gone wrong. For example, although many of us knew the banking system was due for a fall, we knew it in the samne way that we know Yellowstone park is due for a blowout. Could happen tomorrow, could happen in a hundred years (or more). Might be happening as I type. But we have been repeatedly shown carrots, and sometimes feel a little bit like donkeys as a result - and it seems to be mostly OpenPandora (indeed, mostly Craig) who holds this carrot out on a 2M long stick to show us and promise us it's "only 2M away!". Since this has been happening, or so it feels, since September last year a little backlash is IMHO hardly surprising.

Could someone in posession of all the fact have been less optimistic and assumed that SOME things would go wrong, and not post such unrealisticly optimistic posts? I suspect thay could have. Could people with the facts handle the customers better, with less "marketing BS" type posts and more facts? You yourself have proven to be adept at that.

It ma not necessarily be "fair" to lay so much criticism at Craig's door - very little in this world is "fair", but this includes treating us like children who have to be led on with promises of "Jam tomorrow" all the time. I, and a few others, prefer the more pragmatic reports that you (or indeed MWeston on occasion) provide us. Indeed, although I'd hate to se Craig lose any of his enthusiasm if I were able to I'd probably sew mittens on his hands tos top him from typing, because while it surely does keep some customers hooked if they believe it's just 2 months away indefinately, it's really pithing off some others, causing backlashing which are obviously upsetting YOU - and AFAIK no-one has any grudge against you (oh, apart from the fact that you're obviously biased because you sell Wiz's. Or are part of OpenPandora. Or something )

Peace

 

[aq21]

It's not a tin-foil hat conspiracy to suggest that OpenPandora are handling things poorly. They are.

So... umm... you can handle things better?
You KNEW the money would freeze?
You KNEW how long the moulding would take?
You KNEW that our nubs company would file bankruptcy?
You KNEW that we had to make some minor fixed in boards and cases before we could test them?

Wow, you seem to know an awful lot of things.
Maybe you could tell me what problem we'll have next. 'cause I DON'T know


So you did not know how long the manufacturing process takes, and still you promised to have the devices ready in less than two months when you sold them?
That is handling things poorly.

So you thought that models are made only for preparing marketing videos? Did it not occur to you that test models are actually made to test the design mistakes and correct them?
That is handling things poorly.

Everyone who ever worked in anything related to designing devices knows that it takes a few months since the time you have a final (as in really final) model till it is in the hands of consumers. When I heard of the device at the time of pre-orders, I was sure you have a final model, and even then I expected to get it at the start of 2009. I was shocked to find out later that you did not even have a first model at the time.

The Pandora is not going to get to us before September, and even that will take a miracle. I won't be surprised at all if I don't get it in 2009.

BTW, the wifi problem can easily be hardware problem - it can a be mutual interference between two on board devices that you can't see with your test software, but manifests itself when you try to run full system.

 

[dingens]

I'm having multiple deja vus in this thread. Most of you guys are involved in this project long enough to know how to interpret info given from Craig, ED and MWeston. If it comes really hard, ED is the one to listen to. Craig shoudn't always be taken literally, or whatever you like how to describe it.

@ED
I understand that you want to defend Craig against (partially unfair) criticism. But I think it would be better to not participate in this discussion and just let the thread die its natural death

 

[DigitalWings]

model till it is in the hands of consumers. When I heard of the device at the time of pre-orders, I was sure you have a final model, and even then I expected to get it at the start of 2009. I was shocked to find out later that you did not even have a first model at the time.

So you have?

 

[VRAndy]

So... umm... you can handle things better?
Probably not. I'm not really a 'hardware person', and especially not 'business person', but If nothing else I'd be more communicative.

I didn't say it was easy, or that I could do better. I said that it was not a crazy conspiracy theory to complain that some thing are being handled poorly. There are legitimate grievances from pre-paid customers. For further discussion on this topic, see every release-date thread between now and last December.

Berating complainers as being CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS won't make them happier customers or make them less likely to cancel their orders.

Edit : EvilDragon or OpenPandora is not berating anyone. I'm referring to the person I was originally replying to. Just want to make that perfectly clear.

QUOTE
Maybe you could tell me what problem we'll have next. 'cause I DON'T know

Well, since you asked so nicely, let me dust off this crystal ball I once nicked off a gypsy fortune teller.

1) There are space worms in some of your CPUs, (Their spores were in the asteroid TI ground down to form the silicon wafers instead of growing their own.)
2) Silicon Graphics will demand their logo back. (They will want to know where the other half is. I hope you kept it.)
3) Minor, but critical modifications to the Angstrom distribution will cause over 500 Pandoras it to gain sentience and demand rights. The problem is eventually solved by switching to Ubuntu and reflashing.
4) Evil Dragon vanquished by zombie Saint George.
5) Incorrect ratio of hope to all the evils in the world causes dangerous imbalance in the shipping materials.

About eight to twelve minutes before each of these disasters hit, Craigix will make a public guess at a release date of about today+60. Then we won't hear much from him for a while. This is especially irritating after disaster #4.

 

[VRAndy]

[*]1Gb Ram fiasco - I came to Open Pandora pretty late and am pretty shocked to see that Craig ever dreamed of trying to pull that one!

I think that was long before he was taking any money. So that's not really shady in and of itself. It's a non-issue.