Appstore Security

[Wrath Of Khan]

I voted yes.Im sure they know what their doing.An app-store sounds cool,though i guess
it will be a while before a lot of apps start to appear.A good central site for the pandora
would be good for building a good solid initial communnity to help ensure its success.
I would make donations for stuff i liked.Mainly games.Would be cool to have a hand in it,even in a small way.

 

[PhonicUK]

How about giving people the choice?

On the Playstation Store, there's an account option to require a password before purchasing something. And you can turn it on/off as you please. (Default is off, I think it should be on by default though)

 

[darien]

I think the fundamental question is, do we want people who are too lazy to deal with checkpoints to have the option to overlook it? Technically they're the most likely persons to leave a computer logged in. It's not so much a case of not having that person's account charged for a purchase but allowing any visitor to come in and download that person's purchased content, resulting in leak and piracy.

It's really not that much of an issue to have to put in a password to download the file, or even get an e-mail with the download link instead of allowing unchecked downloads from a logged in computer.

Password for checkouts, downloads, and limited session login seems reasonable.

 

[Esn]

Yes, as long as you still try to minimize the # of times a password has to be entered.

i.e.

Allow people to make a selection of many different items before they need to enter a password, so that they'll only have to do it once at the end, not for every single item they select.

 

[Awakening]

There should be a cart system just like on a regular webshop. When you go to the checkout and actually pay for the items in your cart, you enter your password to confirm it's actually you who are the buyer.

Besides buying stuff, there should be a donate function for all apps (both free and payed for) where you can donate any amount you want to the creator.


BTW, what's to stop someone to upload something made by someone else and start selling? What if someone downloads an Open Source game, change the name and upload it with a price?

 

[WizardStan]

BTW, what's to stop someone to upload something made by someone else and start selling? What if someone downloads an Open Source game, change the name and upload it with a price?

Shame and ridicule, at least. This is a comparitively small community, and if someone is effectively ripping off someone else's work, it'll be brought to light real fast.
At most, legal battle. Remember, the code can be open source but that doesn't mean the content (graphics and music) are free to redistribute. If a person takes someone else's game, changes the code but leaves the graphics intact, that could easily be copyright infringement, depending on the license.

 

[polyroy]

I don't see any legal battles happening against piracy, so I am also kind of worried here against buyers starting to pirate the commercial software. It could easily destroy any commercial interest.

I'm thinking about something that might help prevent the stealing in an unobtrusive manner. It would be nice for vendors to be given the option to watermark applications downloaded from the Pandora App Store, you get your own personal copy. With this I mean that any willing vendor could provide copies with some details changed that are hard to detect (and therefore remove), such that any leak or shared file that has somehow become publically available can be traced back to the original buyer. If a leak occurs, the vendor should decide what to do themselves, hopefully giving the user a chance to defend themselves and taking into account possible AppStore bugs or hacked AppStore accounts.

If this is going to be the case, I would want the app store to not do the watermarking themselves. The vendor should stay in charge of exactly what product is delivered, and watermarking will then be somewhat robust as every application could be watermarked in a different way. Also, the user ideally wouldn't know whether their software is watermarked or not (unless they start comparing two two purchases) to also give the idea that non-watermarked paid apps could be watermarked for those vendors that can't be bothered to implement this.

The code to perform the watermarking could be run by the AppStore, so that every purchase doesn't need to be stored separately for every download, and be somewhat secured such that the watermarking code or the unmarked application never leak to prevent users from being framed. Either this or the vendor must provide the watermarked downloads themselves, but then again, isn't availability of binaries the app store's responsibility?

This isn't any form of DRM, it only exists to identify the origin of each copy, and will greatly reduce the incentive to do piracy on the user part. Think of every purchase as your 'personal' copy. Currently I can't think of any reasons why this wouldn't be popular, can you?

Edit: was inappropriately replied to prior post.

 

[juniorm33]

Besides buying stuff, there should be a donate function for all apps (both free and payed for) where you can donate any amount you want to the creator.

Well for the devs that wants donations. I know it sounds like a stupid comment, but if I donate I want them to get it, not go into a general pot or something. (unless it states it)
Not all devs want it, even if its a voluntary donation it seems.

Edit: Piracy always comes up. And I never understand why.
Proven this week by the uk record industry doing well in a recession. Why, because of things like spotify. Give people cheap, easy and convenient alternatives and most will choose it! Would you really go searching the net for a £2-10 game (or whatever), when you could easily buy it? Especially when you belong to a community? Personally I think the second hand market should be a bigger concern for the industry in general. This is a general rant and not directed at you polyroy. Rant off

 

[danielliu88888]

it only takes a few seconds. i think this is a good idea.

 

[Awakening]

Just have the option to check the box for "accept donations".

Would OP take 25% of a donation?


I think a donation system would encourage people to update their apps/games or create new ones, that is if what they do generates a bit of money they might think it's fun. It could also encourage people to release stuff for free.

 

[mali]

I'm thinking about something that might help prevent the stealing in an unobtrusive manner. It would be nice for vendors to be given the option to watermark applications downloaded from the Pandora App Store, you get your own personal copy.

Read post #34

 

[Sphinxter]

"Have to log in to buy something", wtf is that, why should anyone have an account to buy something? I don't use google checkout for that lame ass shit and wouldn't touch this either.

 

[juniorm33]

Oh I'm all for donations, I think it would be a very good idea making it easy and centralised.
No need to worry about when you download something to have to do the paypall thing etc. All handled from the app store. It actually would add polish to the Pandora. Not sure if it would particularly encourage developers or not, but it would sure be a nice way to show appreciation.

Edit: Would OP take 25% of a donation?
Sounds like a lot to me, especially when it's in their interest to get people to use the store. A dev could easily say, OP charges too much do you believe they take a 25% share! Just paypal me directly if you want to send me anything.

 

[polyroy]

Edit: Piracy always comes up. And I never understand why.
--snip--

I am attempting to reduce the commercial investing party's concern. To them, sales lost to piracy is often an issue, even if they only think so. By giving commercial parties a fair solution (as opposed to DRM-ing their content) you can increase their interest, which is exactly what you want to do. I believe that if the app store takes measures that look friendly in the interest of commercial vendors, it could be more successful there. For instance where you'd normally consider sharing such a game with a friend, you might now be tempted not to, but not prevented.

If you are a commercial party who will be more eager to release if such functionality is present, we might win you in with this. And that's what we like to promote with an app store: commercial backing!

Read post #34

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything.

Great! Didn't know they already considered watermarking purchases. I hope my other considerations will be listened to, especially the one about having the vendors control watermarking. Though the implementation I proposed may seem to require somewhat excessive effort for what the vendor would get in return when compared to sales volumes...

 

[juniorm33]

Edit: Piracy always comes up. And I never understand why.
--snip--

There is no DRM, but it does have the ability to track who leaked anything.

Great! Didn't know they already considered watermarking purchases. I hope my other considerations will be listened to, especially the one about having the vendors control watermarking. Though the implementation I proposed may seem to require somewhat excessive effort for what the vendor would get in return when compared to sales volumes...

That's why I said wasn't aimed at you especially as it had already been answered(sorry), even prior to this Craig said it's what he wanted to do.
It's just that the industries use this as a reason all the time instead of evolving, thinking if someone has a pirated version of something it directly means a sale lost, when most times people probably wouldn't have bought it or just buy it second hand. But I'm also aware OP have to throw them a bone since that's what they want.
As long as it doesn't go against the spirit of the Pandora.
And bloody region coding, another way they choose to shoot themselves in the foot especially with staggered releases sigh..... Rant off again

Edit: Should pretty much except not going to get commercial backing, any would be a pleasant surprise though.

 

[kagato]

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

Ah, I see. In that case you should indeed require the password to be entered again before each purchase, but only if someone actually has funds in their account and wants to use that payment method. Will it still be possible to use Paypal directly for each purchase?

Bingo.
At checkout, you select your payment method (credit card/payment gateway, paypal, store credit), and each has its own confirmation.
OP shouldn't store details for other payment methods for their own legal safety, so users should re-enter those details each time anyway.
For credit card, you enter the CC and CCV numbers. For paypal, account ID and password. For store credit, your appstore password.

Payment shouldn't come out of store credit unless the user requests it.

Actually, now that I think about it, you won't always have enough store credit to cover a purchase; in which case, it should then prompt to "pay remaining balance with [method]"...

 

[Wally]

buying yes. downloading no

just as a confirmation. the pandora keyboard will make it less troublesome anyway.

I agree, however we need some security to protect our credit card details or have prepaid vouchers we can purchase, this way you can have promotions and protect over zealous purchasers against buying everything

You'd also need some security implementation on protecting us against buying the same app twice.

 

[juniorm33]

I agree, however we need some security to protect our credit card details or have prepaid vouchers we can purchase, this way you can have promotions and protect over zealous purchasers against buying everything

You'd also need some security implementation on protecting us against buying the same app twice.

Craig's idea of buying credit should avoid them having to have any of our card details at all. And that way also limit how much you or someone with your login could spend at any one time. Not saying it shouldn't be made secure though lol
Not sure what purchase methods for credit other than paypal they have in mind.
Also I think a simple shopping basket would be best.

 

[gruso]

Edit: Would OP take 25% of a donation?
Sounds like a lot to me, especially when it's in their interest to get people to use the store. A dev could easily say, OP charges too much do you believe they take a 25% share! Just paypal me directly if you want to send me anything.

Yes they could, and I don't think anyone would mind. The advantage of the appstore for devs is (in theory) more exposure, and a higher buy/donate rate. In return, they help to cover appstore running costs. Devs can operate outside the appstore if they like, but they'll have to generate their own traffic.

While we're off topic, a side note on VAT as it was being discussed before. I just purchased Crayon Physics, because they're currently having a pay-what-you-want birthday sale: http://www.crayonphysics.com

After purchase, they present this fine print:

If you ordered the game within EU, the price included VAT tax of Finland (22%)

I don't know anything about EU law or why they've used Finland (I assume it's the highest?). Thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

 

[Nova]

I don't like this idea of games and programs costing. I miss the days of the GP32 when everything was free, and we could donate to the devs if we wanted to