Appstore Security

[craigix]

Just want some feedback. I'm thinking if you go to a paid apps page and want to buy it you must enter your username and password on that screen to download, this stops accidents such as people leaving sessions logged in etc.

I could also make it so you just have to enter your password, not your user name.

Or would all that be an inconvenience?

 

[Paradox]

maybe a simple confirmation thing would do?

 

[Vlynndar]

In that case something like a shopping cart would be handy, if you wanted to download multiple applications at the same time.

We're talking about the website, right?

 

[craigix]

maybe a simple confirmation thing would do?

I've thought about this. What I don't want to be able to happen is for someone to emails and say 'hey, I left my account logged in and someone bought 10 apps in my name, I want my money back or I'm going to file a paypal dispute'.

There could be a situation there which we could not really get out of, even if it was their own fault, or they were just lying.

 

[truls_rhock]

How neat. Going to dump the open source part and put an encryption on the software that will eventually fail anyway? Feel a need to make up that lost money by selling user preferences? How many developers have abandoned this project already due to a lack of hardware to test on? How does an appstore matter? Still working on those cases, boards, and software? Haunted by holidays that are occurring a second time?

 

[gruso]

Password only sounds good. Apart from the security, it would serve as small reminder that you're about to pay for something. "You're about to purchase xxxxx, please enter password to confirm."

 

[chris_r]

I think you should give people the option as the password may get tedious after a while. If you have it default to the password, but allow people to skip the password if they read a EULA ie. "I won't try to claim all my money back if someone buys loads of stuff on my pandora". That should probably cover you legally

 

[Prometheus]

That sounds a bit like what Amazon does, to me - and that works fine in my view. Voted "Yes".

 

[borgqueenx]

yes ask for password at apps you need to pay for.
How's the pay system gonna work anyways, because normally you need to enter your password at the payment process, with an exeption at huge real app stores like in itunes.
or does this app store also has that feature?

 

[atomicthumbs]

We should use SSL too, in case we're not already. Make sure to hash and salt the passwords for storage, and don't go out in the snow without your mittens.

 

[craigix]

We should use SSL too, in case we're not already. Make sure to hash and salt the passwords for storage, and don't go out in the snow without your mittens.

Yeah they are already hashed and salted. The more I think about it the more a password should be used to buy anything, it might be a slight inconvenience but the added security is excellent.

 

[Xenu]

How neat. Going to dump the open source part and put an encryption on the software that will eventually fail anyway? Feel a need to make up that lost money by selling user preferences? How many developers have abandoned this project already due to a lack of hardware to test on? How does an appstore matter? Still working on those cases, boards, and software? Haunted by holidays that are occurring a second time?

Don't worry, there will be plenty of open source software available. However there will hopefully be plenty of commercial software aswell. If someone dedicated a year or more developing a game or application it's up to that person if he or she wants to make some money from that. But please feel free to write your own great software and distribute it under a free licence.

 

[Lafazar]

maybe a simple confirmation thing would do?

I've thought about this. What I don't want to be able to happen is for someone to emails and say 'hey, I left my account logged in and someone bought 10 apps in my name, I want my money back or I'm going to file a paypal dispute'.

There could be a situation there which we could not really get out of, even if it was their own fault, or they were just lying.

I'm not sure I even understand the problem. When someone leaves their appstore account logged in (say on a public computer), the worst that can happen is that someone else is able to download the paid-for apps of that person.

Authorization of payment is a separate step and handled by (for example) Paypal, and Paypal requires a password every single time.

If a person B "illegally" buys apps for person A's account with person A's payment method (and I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that), it's a problem with that payment method security, not your appstore security.

I would just add an tick box "Keep me logged in (do not use on a public computer)" to the Login page that is off by default, like in any other webstore ever.

 

[craigix]

maybe a simple confirmation thing would do?

I've thought about this. What I don't want to be able to happen is for someone to emails and say 'hey, I left my account logged in and someone bought 10 apps in my name, I want my money back or I'm going to file a paypal dispute'.

There could be a situation there which we could not really get out of, even if it was their own fault, or they were just lying.

I'm not sure I even understand the problem. When someone leaves their appstore account logged in (say on a public computer), the worst that can happen is that someone else is able to download the paid-for apps of that person.

Authorization of payment is a separate step and handled by (for example) Paypal, and Paypal requires a password every single time.

If someone "illegally" buys apps for that account with the owners payment method, it's a problem with that payment method security, not your appstore security.

I would just create a cookie and add an tick box "Keep me logged in (do not use on a public computer)" that is off by default, like in any other webstore ever.

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

 

[Lafazar]

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

Ah, I see. In that case you should indeed require the password to be entered again before each purchase, but only if someone actually has funds in their account and wants to use that payment method. Will it still be possible to use Paypal directly for each purchase?

Personally I would prefer that. That way I can leave my appstore account logged in on my home computer and only have to enter the Paypal password when I purchase something.

 

[Trevsweb]

buying yes. downloading no

just as a confirmation. the pandora keyboard will make it less troublesome anyway.

 

[mali]

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

I'm not sure if it really is the best solution to go that route. It might be better to start with a conservative approach and pay per app via the usual channels like Paypal, etc. Maybe there are services out there that allow charging an account like you suggest and they cover the legal stuff. I wouldn't want to take the risk if something goes wrong or someone tries to cheat. The legal issues might be worth to discuss with a lawyer first.

 

[Giepi]

I would NOT go this way.
My humble suggestion is letting choose everything you want to buy without any tedious password insertion and THEN insert the password as a cart checkout. I would AVOID any form of "prepaid" solution, because you're such a small company and I wouldn't want you in the middle of some crappy lawsuite from a couple of cartridgeheads or some new bank refounding everyone again because they are pussies thinking "OPEN SOURCE IS BAD FOR MONEY! THEY ARE GOING BANKRUPT! HURR DURR! PANIC!".

Just my 2 cents

 

[Kramy]

Just want some feedback. I'm thinking if you go to a paid apps page and want to buy it you must enter your username and password on that screen to download, this stops accidents such as people leaving sessions logged in etc.

I could also make it so you just have to enter your password, not your user name.

Or would all that be an inconvenience?

Yeah. That's my big annoyance with eBay. I can't just log it in and forget about it.

Whoever complained about Google's 20 year cookies sucks. My major annoyance with most forums is the seemingly random logouts. My computer is secure, and my browser is used only by me, so when I tell it to stay logged in FOREVER, it should do it, thank you. When I come back to something in 4 years, it's annoying looking up passwords. It's far more annoying doing it every few days.

I found solutions to that, like KeePass - but I still dislike the extra hassle.

P.S. Don't store credit card info. Process payments and discard it.

That sounds a bit like what Amazon does, to me - and that works fine in my view. Voted "Yes".

Amazon uses heuristics. It won't bug you unless something changes - payment method, address, etc.

I had to re-confirm everything (entering my password twice) when shipping to a new address. Most of the time if I'm logged in it doesn't bug me at all.

It's worth noting that it uses semi-logged-in logins. If you leave it and come back later, you're technically still logged in(access to cart and wishlist), but you still have to login before you can change any info(profile, address, add new item to wishlist) or place an order. It also displays that message, "Not Tom? - click here", similar to eBay.

Amazon's is good, but eBay's is poorly designed.

P.S. I'm still a fan of points rather than currency in your store account. It baffled me the first time I tried to cancel a cell plan, which had been amassing minutes. Apparently it had "$1580" in the account, but these aren't real dollars. They can't be removed, or transferred, and they disappear after 1 month of no payments. They also have a different value than real dollars, based on the time of purchase, and special rules like not being redeemable for cash under any circumstances. :blink: (that one makes no sense. Your account with $1580 (dollars) in it has $0 (dollars) usable)

I really regard it as a fallacy to call it money when it isn't. At best it's in-store credit, and at worst it's points. But being points opens up some positives too...

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

Up to $100? Why so low? I hope that's not a hard-coded limit, in case game refunds have to be given or something.

Hey - I take it your account balance is separate from your other account balance? (You know - the $ from selling stuff?)

The appstore allows you to charge your account up (a max of $100) to avoid multiple paypal/credit card fees. So they would not always go though paypal etc.

I'm not sure if it really is the best solution to go that route. It might be better to start with a conservative approach and pay per app via the usual channels like Paypal, etc. Maybe there are services out there that allow charging an account like you suggest and they cover the legal stuff. I wouldn't want to take the risk if something goes wrong or someone tries to cheat. The legal issues might be worth to discuss with a lawyer first.

The problem is, you'll never get $0.25 games if you do that. You'll get $2 games, or $5 games. I'd love to pay off a new SD card by releasing something, but I have no dreams of getting rich off it.

Edit: I was kind of envisioning it being a bit simpler. Dump in $50 and get 5000 points. I buy some games for 200 points, depleting some of mine. Other people buy one of mine for 25 points, bumping it back up. When it comes time to redeem them, it's a flat rate - 75%, as you said in another thread. 5000 -> $37.50. Maybe my game is awesome, so I end up with 15000 points, and redeem 10k for $75 (new SD cards!), or maybe I run out of points and dump more money in. Either way, it makes the points very fluid feeling. It's no problem giving just 5 away if something is 5 minutes of fun, or 100 if something is amazing. The only transaction fees are when purchasing points, and might even be hidden. (taken out of the 25%) Plus, since you know how many points are in the system, you always know the upper limit that could be redeemed - whatever remains is yours.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

The AppStore sounds great, personally I'd rather not have to 'charge' my account, and instead have the payment totally separate, with Paypal, but I understand the problems with this (Craig needing maintenance costs, PayPal taking some money too)..

Steve