Anyway To Minimize Ghosting?

[coevin]

Vr Andy it's deff ghosting the players leave a black trail when moving. Craig is there a way to change colour settings of the screen etc.

 

[paulguy]

Does xgamma or xcalib work on the pandora? Not sure how complete the video drivers are for such things.

 

[EvilDragon]

As already said, change the gamma settings in the Settings/LCD-Settings menu.
For me, TV Gamma works best, but you can also create your own settings.

This can be fixed in the future with some video filters, as it happens with games using the checkerboard trick to simulator more colors than the system had as the TV blurs them. However, the LCD of the Pandora is crystal clear, so it leads to that flickering effect.
None of the emulators have filters that prevent that so far - but they're all early ports.

 

[coevin]

Cheers evil dragon, I didn't want to come across as a hater. I am loving the pandora so a big thanks to you, Craig and all the team.

 

[fusion_power]

The Pandora has slight ghosting on some games, the worst game I know of is Sonic 1 (those green tress ghost).

A game without any ghosting would be Sonic and Knuckles.

It's down to the bright palette clash (especially bright green) and using that checkboard effect to gain more colours (LCDs don't like that effect at all).

If you can adjust the green down a bit it would probably do wonders.

Hm, I've played alot Sonic 1 onto the GP2X (F100) and never noticed any ghosting. Does the Pandora LCD has a slower response Time than the GP2X Screen or is it all just because of the higher Res of the Pandora Screen?

 

[bce23w]

The Pandora has slight ghosting on some games, the worst game I know of is Sonic 1 (those green tress ghost).

I can see the headlines now: "Sonic 1 Unplayable on Pandora! Ghosting on Childhood Favorite has Craig Seeing Black!"

 

[Exophase]

I know I saw some ghosting on the LCD on the test board I had back in 2008. This was with Bonk's Revenge, a game which is very prone to it because it has a lot of black outlines around otherwise colorful graphics. On my PSP-1000 the ghosting was severe and really hurt the experience - when the background had a bunch of black outlines in it scrolling would make it halve in intensity. On the Pandora the ghosting wasn't anywhere close to like it was on the PSP, it was all fairly slight.

 

[Sarlix]

I've been having some pretty serious ghosting issues with Gauntlet.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Eseller_2007/IMG_3743.jpg

 

[DaveC]

This can be fixed in the future with some video filters, as it happens with games using the checkerboard trick to simulator more colors than the system had as the TV blurs them. However, the LCD of the Pandora is crystal clear, so it leads to that flickering effect.
None of the emulators have filters that prevent that so far - but they're all early ports.

I don't think that introducing filters to make everything blurry and destroying detail is a good solution though.

I would rather have a little checkerboard dither show then have everything look blurry, out of focus, and have lower contrast. People think filters are the solution for everything it seems. Don't like an artifact? Blurr it all out so you can't see it. While that may hide some things it also ruins other things most notably detail.

 

[MDave]

The best way to remove ghosting, is to increase ONLY the darkest of sub pixels in a pixel by 1 if it's say, 2 or less out of 256. This will keep all of the other pixels that don't ghost, stay the same true color

 

[paulguy]

Some tvs will compensate for it by actually overshooting and going back to the intended color. Probably a lot of the 120hz tvs might do this... Not really an option on the pandora and probably looks bad at lower framerates... Just an odd little tidbit.

 

[EvilDragon]

This can be fixed in the future with some video filters, as it happens with games using the checkerboard trick to simulator more colors than the system had as the TV blurs them. However, the LCD of the Pandora is crystal clear, so it leads to that flickering effect.
None of the emulators have filters that prevent that so far - but they're all early ports.

I don't think that introducing filters to make everything blurry and destroying detail is a good solution though.

I would rather have a little checkerboard dither show then have everything look blurry, out of focus, and have lower contrast. People think filters are the solution for everything it seems. Don't like an artifact? Blurr it all out so you can't see it. While that may hide some things it also ruins other things most notably detail.

Well, that IS a filter and was exactly what I meant

 

[droneb]

This can be fixed in the future with some video filters, as it happens with games using the checkerboard trick to simulator more colors than the system had as the TV blurs them. However, the LCD of the Pandora is crystal clear, so it leads to that flickering effect.
None of the emulators have filters that prevent that so far - but they're all early ports.

I don't think that introducing filters to make everything blurry and destroying detail is a good solution though.

I would rather have a little checkerboard dither show then have everything look blurry, out of focus, and have lower contrast. People think filters are the solution for everything it seems. Don't like an artifact? Blurr it all out so you can't see it. While that may hide some things it also ruins other things most notably detail.

here! have an antibiotic.

of course there are diferent types of filters! and the thing you just said is a filter by itself.
EDIT:
Ninja'd

 

[Tom`]

This can be fixed in the future with some video filters, as it happens with games using the checkerboard trick to simulator more colors than the system had as the TV blurs them. However, the LCD of the Pandora is crystal clear, so it leads to that flickering effect.
None of the emulators have filters that prevent that so far - but they're all early ports.

I don't think that introducing filters to make everything blurry and destroying detail is a good solution though.

I would rather have a little checkerboard dither show then have everything look blurry, out of focus, and have lower contrast. People think filters are the solution for everything it seems. Don't like an artifact? Blurr it all out so you can't see it. While that may hide some things it also ruins other things most notably detail.

Don't know about the checkerboard dithering, but I'd rather have a filter like this one than just an integer scale. I don't know if this would take too much power, though. Of course, there are a lot of filters I don't like (and definitely no fractional scaling).

 

[DaveC]

The best way to remove ghosting, is to increase ONLY the darkest of sub pixels in a pixel by 1 if it's say, 2 or less out of 256. This will keep all of the other pixels that don't ghost, stay the same true color

The problem with that is then the contrast goes out the window. If you do that enough to reduce ghosting then everything will look washed out. If you don't do it enough to ruin contrast then it won't get rid of the ghosting. Then there is the fact that it isn't just dark colors that do it, highly saturated colors do it too. Like in Sonic, the cartoony graphics colors are so saturated that they will ghost.
The only real way to get rid of all ghosting is to switch out the LCD for OLED

of course there are diferent types of filters! and the thing you just said is a filter by itself.
EDIT:
Ninja'd

What?

What did I say that was a filter? I said just blurr things out to hide things, you mean that? I was mentioning that as that is what people seem to love to do but it also looks like shit (looks too blurry). I hate 99% of filters as mostly all they do is smear all details into a blurry mess ruining the pixel art.

Don't know about the checkerboard dithering, but I'd rather have a filter like this one than just an integer scale. I don't know if this would take too much power, though. Of course, there are a lot of filters I don't like (and definitely no fractional scaling).

The "checkerboard dithering" is something the GAME does not an external filter. ED said to get rid of that and add a filter to blur it together. I said I would rather keep the checkerboard than make everything blurry.

That phosphor one does look nice and it is probably the only filter I have seen that I like, but doesn't that need 3X scale? On the Pandora we can mostly only do 2X scale due to the resolution not being as high as a PC.

 

[Tom`]

That phosphor one does look nice and it is probably the only filter I have seen that I like, but doesn't that need 3X scale? On the Pandora we can mostly only do 2X scale due to the resolution not being as high as a PC.

There's a 2x example here - I don't know if it's been implemented, though.

edit: I just skimmed the whole thread, and it looks like the c++ implementation of that filter has some severe performance issues. However, there seems to be a shader implementation - maybe someone could figure out how to use the SGX for that. If so, maybe there'd be no CPU penalty...

 

[MDave]

The best way to remove ghosting, is to increase ONLY the darkest of sub pixels in a pixel by 1 if it's say, 2 or less out of 256. This will keep all of the other pixels that don't ghost, stay the same true color

The problem with that is then the contrast goes out the window. If you do that enough to reduce ghosting then everything will look washed out. If you don't do it enough to ruin contrast then it won't get rid of the ghosting. Then there is the fact that it isn't just dark colors that do it, highly saturated colors do it too. Like in Sonic, the cartoony graphics colors are so saturated that they will ghost.
The only real way to get rid of all ghosting is to switch out the LCD for OLED

Like I said, if the turned off sub pixels are only increased by a value of just 1 or 2 in the RBG colour space, The picture will look very much unchanged, but ghosting would be reduced a LOT because the sub pixels are always 'on' and don't go through the slow process of turning on and off. Really, the difference in contrast would be as minimal as possible, since you are only turning on any sub pixels that are off by the tiniest amount. I'll make a comparison screenshot of Sonic 1 to give an example.

 

[MDave]

Alright here you go. An increase of 2 looked pretty much identical. I don't think it would help ghosting much either

So I increased any sub pixels that are below 40, to 40. Except for blacks and near blacks, I raised those to 16.

Unaltered:

Altered:

Doesn't look too bad!

Would you have been able to tell the difference if it weren't shown side by side? And this is for the worst offending game of ghosting, right? So the differences would be even less for other games.

Is there any way to scroll picture files along on the Pandora? Might be a good test for ghosting!

 

[coevin]

Hi guys can you clear something up as I am completely lost on whether it's down to the LCD or emulator. Basically I've been playing castle vania on the snes and Rambo on the c64. Basically on castlevania when you move the background kind of goes dark and blurred, but when you stop it goes to normal.

With rambo when you reach the camp there is a black fence which becomes a blurry mess when you walk past it. Now I know using frodo on the gp2x this never happened.

Basically I am lost on whether it's the LCD or the emulators not being optimized or whatever. Also the gamma settings are way to complicated for me to mess about with lol.

 

[EvilDragon]

Hi guys can you clear something up as I am completely lost on whether it's down to the LCD or emulator. Basically I've been playing castle vania on the snes and Rambo on the c64. Basically on castlevania when you move the background kind of goes dark and blurred, but when you stop it goes to normal.

With rambo when you reach the camp there is a black fence which becomes a blurry mess when you walk past it. Now I know using frodo on the gp2x this never happened.

Basically I am lost on whether it's the LCD or the emulators not being optimized or whatever. Also the gamma settings are way to complicated for me to mess about with lol.

That's exactly the problem with that high contrasts we were talking about.
Gamma Settings are not that complicated - try using TV Mode gamma if you don't want to create your own gammas settings.