Answer Me This...

[GameGod]

Recently, as any of your forum fans know, there's been quite a bit of ranting (both negative and constructive) about the GP2X and GamePark Holdings.

Let me give everyone something to chew on then:

Why doesn't a company come along, release a new/better open source handheld, and blow GamePark Holdings and the GP2X out of the water?
(Better yet, why don't some of the creative, trained, and skilled people on these forums do it? If anyone had the engineering background, it could be done.)

For starters, GPH seems to have somewhat crappy manufacturing. (This is debatable, refute it if I'm wrong.) There's been many complaints about GP2X's being defective, spontaneously breaking, and just wearing out. I'm betting it wouldn't be difficult to find a manufacturer of higher quality.

Second, from what I've read, GPH only has ONE engineer, who may not be very experienced. Get a few skilled engineers together, and you nothing's stoppign you from designing a handheld that's better. (ie. A handheld that fixes many of the complaints, has 3D acceleration, etc.)

Third, GPH seems to have an extremely limited supply chain. GP2Xs are only available from a handful of retailers around the world. I'm betting that it wouldn't be difficult for a good channel marketer to get a new handheld into big stores worldwide. (Take for example, the K-Byte/Aeronix Zipit Wireless Messenger is made by a small company, but was being sold in Best Buys across North America. I believe the hardware was designed by a single person too.)

Lastly, if you'd really want to be successful in mainstream channels (ie. Best Buy, etc.), the handheld would have made WAY more use friendly. We're talking idiot-proof the installation of emulators, homebrew, etc., and give users many resources showing them how to do cool stuff with their handheld. We already know the community is willing to help with stuff like firmware, get them involved too. (Recently, the developers of the Chumby have been giving away Chumbies to developers with cool ideas. Doing something like this with a cool gaming handheld would help too.)

So there you have it. I don't doubt the talent of some of the people on these forums, but all I think an effort like this would take is some experience, and some ambition. If you build it, they will come.

Discuss.

* I should also mention as an end-note that there were reports that iRiver was going to come out with some sort of gaming heldheld, but from what they showed at CES this year, it looks like that was scrapped in favour of more media-oriented devices.

 

[Epicenter]

It's not hard to design a console that is better than the GP2X. But I doubt GPH's is a very lucrative field of business-- and therefore, venture capital hard to come by.

 

[GameGod]

But I doubt GPH's is a very lucrative field of business-- and therefore, venture capital hard to come by.

Aha, good observation.

But the question is then, what has GP2X done to make it a lucrative field of business?

(I think the answer is that the retailers have made it successful by building a community and promoting the device. GPH hasn't done any marketing at all.)

 

[gaterooze]

Gizmondo, N-Gage, Zodiac. See a pattern?

All had big bucks behind them, teams of skilled engineers. Were any of them really definitively better than the GP2X? And did any of them succeed? (I know they weren't exactly open source, but regarding hardware builds...)

Squidge was also working on such a device, which sounded cool.

 

[Alex.]

The community's foundations were established as early as 2003 thanks to the GP32. The GP2X built on that, and capitalized.

Good for it

- Alex

 

[Yono]

But I doubt GPH's is a very lucrative field of business-- and therefore, venture capital hard to come by.

Aha, good observation.

But the question is then, what has GP2X done to make it a lucrative field of business?

(I think the answer is that the retailers have made it successful by building a community and promoting the device. GPH hasn't done any marketing at all.)

I think in Korea they market it to alternative areas such as a PMP and I believe as some sort of educational device.

 

[slaanesh]

Gizmondo, N-Gage, Zodiac. See a pattern?

I tell ya, the Zodiac was such a good device. It certainly deserved more attention that what it got.
Pity Tapwave had the price set so high when they first came out, I think it could have been successful if it was more moderately priced.

But you do get an excellent device. Build quality, component quality and great software being Palm compatible.

 

[GameGod]

Gizmondo, N-Gage, Zodiac. See a pattern?

All had big bucks behind them, teams of skilled engineers. Were any of them really definitively better than the GP2X? And did any of them succeed? (I know they weren't exactly open source, but regarding hardware builds...)

Squidge was also working on such a device, which sounded cool.

The Gizmondo had a retarded name, was $400 USD, had GPS and a camera (ie. it did too much stuff = too expensive), and it's executives were crooks. Read me.

The N-Gage couldn't decide if it was a gaming system or a phone. They also bet big on commercial titles, which never appeared en masse because the unit didn't sell well enough.

The Tapwave Zodiac couldn't decide if it was a PDA or a gaming system. It also had REALLY crappy battery life for gaming, was too expensive ($400/$300 USD), and was poorly marketed. (I'm sure there's other good reason for it's failure here too.)

Now do you see the pattern?

The GP2X's strongest selling features are that it's a DEDICATED gaming system (no identify confusion), it's CHEAP, and it's OPEN - It's success doesn't depend on commercial games. This is why the GP2X is successful, and this is the same reason why you could launch a competing handheld and be successful. Just fix the GP2X's flaws, give a damn about your customers, and you'll win our community's praise.

Edit: I'm an idiot, the GP2X is a "personal entertainment player". Maybe it'd do better if it were marketed as a gaming machine first, and a media player second.

 

[Auritribe]

If a big company were to announce a system like the gp2x, it'd get hit pretty hard by the big boys over emulation.

Its no secret that the megacorps of gaming dont like homebrew and emulation, it cuts into their shares. Nintendo especially, with their VC now.

Its best the GP2X stay a small operation for that very reason. Keeps things from getting complicated.

The Zodiac failed for tons of reasons. Crappy battery life, difficult to manage with the filesystem if you didn't have an SD card, and worst of all, an awful analog nub that couldn't game to save its life. Complain all you want about the GP2X's joystick, the Zodiac nub was far worse.

 

[GameGod]

If a big company were to announce a system like the gp2x, it'd get hit pretty hard by the big boys over emulation.

Its no secret that the megacorps of gaming dont like homebrew and emulation, it cuts into their shares. Nintendo especially, with their VC now.

Its best the GP2X stay a small operation for that very reason. Keeps things from getting complicated.

The Zodiac failed for tons of reasons. Crappy battery life, difficult to manage with the filesystem if you didn't have an SD card, and worst of all, an awful analog nub that couldn't game to save its life. Complain all you want about the GP2X's joystick, the Zodiac nub was far worse.

True enough, good points Auritribe. Thanks!

 

[DaveC]

Gizmondo, N-Gage, Zodiac. See a pattern?

I tell ya, the Zodiac was such a good device. It certainly deserved more attention that what it got.
Pity Tapwave had the price set so high when they first came out, I think it could have been successful if it was more moderately priced.

But you do get an excellent device. Build quality, component quality and great software being Palm compatible.

I had one. It had nice build quality. But the resolutions forced stretching and filtering (you know how I love that). And that STICK!! It makes the stick on the GP2X look a brilliant controller that reads your mind in comparison. I hated that analog for emus. Then there was that stupid non-replaceable battery. I sold it off a long time ago. So I guess it goes to say, none of these are without flaws.

 

[Blah]

For a $150 device, the GP2X is pretty good. My only grievance is the firmware, it has no obvious bugs but from a developers point of view seems a little shoddy.

 

[krosfyah]

For a $150 device

We get to pay $270 for it in UK. (266MHz tested version)

That changes the perspective a little.

 

[Blah]

Just think of it as a tax for living in a country that isn't full of idiots.

 

[krosfyah]

lol :lol:

 

[gaterooze]

GameGod, chill buddy, all I meant was that big bucks and a team of skilled engineers doesn't always equate to success. When things get designed by committee they don't always come out the way you imagine.

Competition is always good though. I'm assuming you know about the various XGP systems in the pipeline? If you want open 3D-based hardware that's probably the next likely source.

 

[moxie]

Edit: I'm an idiot, the GP2X is a "personal entertainment player". Maybe it'd do better if it were marketed as a gaming machine first, and a media player second.

Perhaps this is the proper reply to the OMG It's teh Suxxors for g4m1ng 1337 crowd* - This machine isn't a quick fix to all-round gaming heaven. If you hang around, we (as in the community) might subvert it into being one Slowly but surely - Gmenu2x with rom selector functions and manual support, modified firmware, stick mods for those who want it (I don't - I like my stick (innuendo? Me?)), and on the gaming side a steady stream (albeit somewhat variable in intensity) of improvements to emulators, new interesting libs, new homebrew games or improvements to the old ones...I think the reason why someone else with more business or gaming savvy haven't broken through is detailed well above - In particular, once you get above a certain level on the radar, you'd need to clamp down on the homebrew capabilities (read: emulation) or risk legal mayhem.

Those who will blow the GP2x out of the water isn't some other company, it's us. or something like that

* And by this I do not mean Epi or any of the other rather knowledgeable critics, really.

 

[Squidge]

Yes, I could design and build a handheld that would be better than the gp2x (and I'd imagine a fair amount of other people here could too), but there's a few things that would get in the way:

I could design and build the hardware, and eventually get something working, but building more than a couple would be a complete nightmare.

Components that I don't normally buy for work-related projects would be silly prices as I'd be buying them in small quantities.

It wouldn't be possible to include 3d as most people don't want to talk to you unless you intend to buy at least a couple of hundred thousand.

There would no case whatsoever (I have no experience in plastic molding of any kind, and couldn't afford to get it manufactured in large enough quantities even if i did).

So the bottom line is, yes it could be done with a few sacrifices, but it would end up costing about ~£500 per handheld, which I don't think most people would be willing to pay. We need someone who has a big bank balance to support the project, plan the risk, and buy the components in bulk, and then find someone to make it.

Instead of the all the hassle and costs of the above, the GP2X is a good compromise, and you never know what they'll release in the future

 

[sam fisher]

Squidge, design one that incorporates the i.MX31, then send the plans to GPH!

 

[deepmenace]

wait for sonys next handheld.

it follows that if the ps3 has linux the next psp will.