An almost naked Pyra

[WizardStan]

I have found a Indiegogo proyect with a palmtop computer very similar to Pyra but with Windows 10 (I don't like if you can't install Linux too) and with Atom CPU

There's already 7 threads about this. We know and are generally enthusiastic about it
Unfortunately, at the moment, it doesn't look like it'd be possible to install Linux on it though I admit to not fully understanding the details as to why.

 

[EvilDragon]

Not at all plagiarism - it's missing what I think was very important and caused the Pyra development to take that long:

* Upgradable boards
* Backlit keyboard
* Design as small as possible (pocketable)
* as many features as possible
* user replacable battery
* capacitive touchscreen (hard to hit small buttons)
* Linux

Just the small design the Pyra had took over half a year in development.
It's easier designing a CPU board where you have a lot of space. In fact, systems can automatically route such a PCB but if it needs to be as small as the one for the Pyra, you need to do it manually.

With the board size and little features the GPD Win has, the Pyra could've been autorouted as well (saving about 6 - 7 months manual labor).

The GPD Win doesn't have two large SD card slots, no 3G/4G, only one USB port. Those things need A LOT of space on the PCB, actually.

It's a nice device indeed, but I wouldn't call it pocketable (it doesn't fit any of my normal pockets, whereas the Pyra fits... only barely, but it does).

You can't connect it to a TV and use mouse and keyboard without an additional hub (unless you have a keyboard with built-in mouse).

I wouldn't call it plagiarism. It's more like a laptop a bit smaller, but not yet pocketable in my opinion.
And we don't know whether Linux will work nicely on it.
Does Linux support capacitive screens properly?
We don't know much about Wifi drivers, etc.

So yep, a nice addition to the mobile world, but still with different features than we have.

 

[lukey]

I bet that the Pyra will have longer Battery runtime than the GPD WIN. Both have an 6000mAh Battery.

 

[slaeshjag]

Does Linux support capacitive screens properly?

The answer to that is "it depends".

As long as the driver is there, at least single touch will work. Multitouch is very much up to the specific program. In my tiling WM, the only program I use that works well with the touch screen is evince, all the others would work better with the precision of a resistive one, since they don't use more than one touch point.

EDIT: Oh, and google chrome handles it too.

 

[oskda]

Not at all plagiarism - it's missing what I think was very important and caused the Pyra development to take that long:

* Upgradable boards
* Backlit keyboard
* Design as small as possible (pocketable)
* as many features as possible
* user replacable battery
* capacitive touchscreen (hard to hit small buttons)
* Linux

..... but still with different features than we have.

Totally agree.

Replaceable battery is a must for me (an empty battery means a brick instead a computer on the go); the same for backlit keyboard, pocketable size and other features Pyra own.

Even I think Pyra keyboard may be better because the keys are a bit separate, while on GDP keys are one next other without any space between.
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There's already 7 threads about this. ....
Unfortunately, at the moment, it doesn't look like it'd be possible to install Linux on it though I admit to not fully understanding the details as to why.

I didn't know about GDP machine until today (I read about it in a tech blog). Now I have seen the threads about them.

But I am happy to discover as I see Pyra is better for me than GDP (as Pyra has removable battery, upgradable board, backlit keyboard, more pocketable, Linux, etc etc)

 

[comradekingu]

The difference is that thw STKAW32SC comes with Windows 10, while the STK1A32SC ships without an operating system.​

liliputing.com/2016/01/intel-introduces-compute-stick-with-atom-x5-cherry-trail-processor.html Both models feature 2GB of RAM, 32GB of storage.

Note that Intel has yet to price the barebones Cherry Trail sticks or Core m3 based STK2M364CC. Instead of offering a separate, cheaper Linux SKU with reduced memory and storage, Intel has chosen to go with the barebones approach, leaving the specs of the Windows and barebones models identical. All the sticks support Linux, but like the first generation, no Android support is mentioned, despite the fact that the Atom x5 is optimized for Android.​

http://linuxgizmos.com/latest-intel-compute-sticks-use-skylake-and-cherry-trail-cpus/

These are your sources. Linuxgizmos says there is support. I'm wondering if there is official support.

In the same article, it says intel isnt sharing TDP values. Which has been the problem all along. And why intel products flop in every low power category there is, and especially battery powered ones. The mobile division of intel flat out shed $7 billion dollars in straight losses last year alone...(!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark being 32bit is how silly it gets.

While having previously open GPUs, intels whole driverstack means no support for coreboot.
And probably microcode updates (havent checked.)

While unofficial, there are open drivers for ARM with etnaviv for vivante, nouveau for tegra, lima for mali videocoreiv for broadcom and freedreno for adreno/qualcomm.

The size of an intel implementation might be an issue too.

The reason A15 isnt used in phones, is it isnt vastly better than A9. Atleast there is cost involved in upgrading the node process. And nobody screamed for more power at the time. Qualcomm holding the performance crown didnt go for A15, but the similar krait, which they just scaled and scaled.

So A9s and whatever else is mass-produced is cheap as chips, with not a whole lot of players doing A15.
Samsung also bought chips because they sold more phones than their foundries could support.

So what TI does, is drop its mobile division entirely, and go for cars and industry.
Same thing freescale does with their A9 offerings. And they both cost to the tune of 20-30$ or so. An order of magnitude more than fair competition.

What cores are in use is determined by what is on offer, and what is in demand. There also are few A12 and A17 designs.
Raspberry PI 1 had for example no problems going for a whole different architecture and using ARM11 cores for the longest time, and shipped lots of products doing so.

So if the comparable product is a chinese windows 10 handheld gaming laptop, id like to interject that it is at this stage an idea, not something you can buy outright. Rather than its level of openness, it goes for a generic value-preposition. The level of completion on that thing you can see from my remarks about it.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

The ARM Cortex-A15 is a nice CPU. I actually own 2 OMAP5432 and one Exynos5422 boards and they rock.
I surely wouldn't trade them for crappy Intel cheap CPU.
Intel cheat the benchmarks with "arranged" compilers, cheats the market with anti-concurential methods, In a word : they suck.

 

[rygD]

(it doesn't fit any of my normal pockets, whereas the Pyra fits... only barely, but it does).

When you get the full Pyra case can you test it in your pocket so we know what to expect for pocketability compared to the Pandora? Yes, I know it sounds dumb, and should be about the same size. It would just be nice to know.

 

[Klumpen]

I don't think anybody expects the Pyra to fit into a pocket comfortably anyway with a 6'' screen, in the end it's about less baggage and whether it's comfortable to hold and to type with thumbs.

 

[Swordfish II]

I don't think anybody expects the Pyra to fit into a pocket comfortably anyway with a 6'' screen, in the end it's about less baggage and whether it's comfortable to hold and to type with thumbs.

TBH the Pandora doesn't really fit into any pocket comfortably except maybe a jacket pocket.

 

[Klumpen]

TBH the Pandora doesn't really fit into any pocket comfortably except maybe a jacket pocket.

Except for people with baggy pants I guess, although they often could fit a whole netbook in there.

 

[matzesu]

I don't think anybody expects the Pyra to fit into a pocket comfortably anyway with a 6'' screen, in the end it's about less baggage and whether it's comfortable to hold and to type with thumbs.

Das glaubst aber auch nur du: ich hab meine Pandora sogar mal in der vorderen Tasche meiner Jeans getragen, ohne Probleme

Once i carryd my Pandora in a front poket of my jeans, whitout big problems..

Ok my jeans pokets are a bit bigger because i also have to carry my 5.5" Note 2 Phablet, but its works..
And 99,99 % a Yeahr i ditnt wear these un usefull jeans..

 

[EvilDragon]

Except for people with baggy pants I guess, although they often could fit a whole netbook in there.

Fits in my normal trousers without any issue.
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When you get the full Pyra case can you test it in your pocket so we know what to expect for pocketability compared to the Pandora? Yes, I know it sounds dumb, and should be about the same size. It would just be nice to know.

It's a bit thicker, which makes it less comfy than with the Pandora, but at least it still fits for me.

 

[lukey]

My Pandy fits into the front pocket of 75% of the Jeans that i own. And in every Back pocket. And, thanks to Big Smartphones nowdays, it looks normal.

 

[Swordfish II]

Once i carryd my Pandora in a front poket of my jeans, whitout big problems..

Fits in my normal trousers without any issue.

You all need to get some better fitting clothes

 

[fusion_power]

I suppose it will be much more capable as it is a much recent SOC, but even if it weren't, the most important thin is that in theory Intel HD GPU have open drivers while PowerVR (and all GPUs in ARM ecosystem) are closed.

As long as the driver works and is fast, I actualy don't care if it's open or closed. Not every open source solution is automaticly faster than the closed source one (and speed is the most important thing that matters for the end-user). I remember the huge performance difference between original Java and the open source version on the Pandora, there were lightyears between, sadly. However, I welcome every open source thingy that helps to make better drivers that match to the actual systems they are running at.

We knew this 2-3 years ago. There was no other option, ED tried really hard. Did you forget the hundred-page-war about SoC options? That every so often someone well meaning but unfortunately ignorant posts into?
The simple fact is there is nothing unknown about the dangers of using the OMAP5, it was discussed to death and many alternatives were suggested, all of which had to be shot down as impossible: the OMAP5 was the only option.

Of course I remember that. These discussions back then were mostly about what's available and how good the support will be. Nobody mentioned that the OMAP5 may have problems in general. That's what I meant. Of course it was the only available choice back then.

* Backlit keyboard

Hmm, now that you mention that... it really seems they forgot this...does the GPD WIN really has no Backlit Keyboard? *searching*
I could live with non replacable battery and only one SD slot but backlit keyboard is a must!

 

[DaMummy]

You all need to get some better fitting clothes

I prefer my fun parts on the outside of my body.

 

[levi]

FWIW, I've coped fine with my Pandora keyboard, and many years of non-self lit keyboards only by the glow of the CRT at times. So the lack of backlight is not a showstopper for me at least.

Also, my phone currently has no gaps between the keyboard buttons, and that's fine to type on (if a little slower than my Pandora). The keys have a fairly extreme convex dome to them, so you can feel when they're off centre. So I can't say that just because this device doesn't have gaps makes it unusable.

I won't personally be pre-ordering one, as I don't want to run Win10, and I don't know how well that chip will cope with Linux. But I don't see anything inherently wrong with the outside of the design at least.

 

[Exophase]

The technology situation is differente in those periods: in the time of Cortex-A15 and Krait you have to use one of those SOC (most used krait because Cortex-A15 was late in real SOC and a flop) to obtain very good results; today there are a lot of phones using Cortex-A53 multicores with excelent result, so using Cortex-A57 SOC is only for very high-end phones.

These Cortex-A53 SoCs today offer around Cortex-A9 level of single threaded performance. If that was good enough in the A15 era you could have just as well argued that they could have used Cortex-A9 instead. Yet the up to 2.4GHz A9 nVidia Tegra 4i was also a major flop.

These 8-core A53 SoCs are great for benchmark scores but in practice rarely offer more performance than the 4-core, at best there's somewhat of an efficiency advantage in running asynchronous clusters.

And you keep saying Cortex-A15 was late but it's the opposite, when ARM announced it it was slated for devices in 2013 but it landed in late 2012 instead. Krait was out longer but it has a ton of performance glass jaws, it really doesn't do well in a lot of things.. but it doesn't matter because of Qualcomm's advantages.

Even with Samsung Galaxy S7 Qualcomm is being used in some of the phones.. because of modem region issues. Same reason why Samsung has for years (and before they had A15s) split the Galaxy and Note phones between Exynos and Snapdragon depending on region. Despite the fact that they're using their own CPU core now. If Samsung really thinks that there's no point using SoCs with their Mongoose core over Qualcomm's w/Kryo they wouldn't have even developed it.

Its even worse: there were more Cortex-A15 SOC (6 SOC) but used by FEWER PHONES (15 Cortex-A15 phones) while there were less Cortex-A57 SOC (4 SOC) but used for much more phones (33 Cortex-57 phones).

Yes, Cortex-A57 was used by a lot of phones..

Because it was in Snapdragon 808 and 810..

Which had absolutely terrible efficiency, much worse than any A15 SoC, a very bad rush job..

Because of Qualcomm's other advantages! They have a major lock on the phone market because of their radio/modem position. This is my entire point. It's not because of Krait which wasn't even in these SoCs! And it's SURE not because A57 was this huge leap forward and Qualcomm did a credible job implementing it!

It is very 'strange' that LG only used its Cortex-A15 in one only phone, and HiSilicon only used its 2 Cortex-A15 SOC in only 2 phones each

It's not strange because like I've said there are modem integration advantages in using Qualcomm that have nothing to do with the CPU.

Is HiSilicon using A72 everywhere now? Nope, one phone so far, even though they developed an SoC for it. And don't even tell me the CPU in Kirin 950 sucks, the efficiency blows away everything else on the Android market.

 

[Kiga]

You all need to get some better fitting clothes

I prefer my fun parts on the outside of my body.

Word Up!