Am I The Only Person Alive Who Dislikes Nintendo?

[RoboJoe32]

I loved the SNES (favorite system) and found the N64 to be mediocre at best,
and admired the gamecube's technical specs, but frowned on the non-standard medium for third parties and the first party biased controller design.

I know i'll catch tons of flack for this but whatever.

Why do I dislike them so much now you ask? As I look back to my favorite characters like mario, link, samus, Fox Mccloud.... I realize something,ire the technical specs of the gamecube but frown at the first party game oriented they are "Celeb" characters. Little to no depth, (minimal)back story, emotion, or personality. Just an easily recognized image to fall back on. Characters made to "look" Cool without going into that pesky second design process. And can easily be crammed into any pinball/racing/fighting game without anyone so much as batting an eye.....

While I could forgive mario and fox and their like, I think samus having such a thin back story and link having NO set back story at all is just corporate LAZINESS.

Why you ask? Can you name any of samus' family? any battles (besides zebes) she fought in in detail? Any of her greatest bounties? (Hell, if she's a bounty hunter then why is she out saving the world? Is she an ex-bounty hunter or still one?) can you name her personality? Exactly. You can't.


Now for link.... He has never said a word barring "EYRAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" and "HIYAAAAA!", and each game just mixes up his story more, he lacks personality, decisions of his own, and character in general. And has no family/friends/guardians that are set in stone in each game, And it feels as if he could be replaced by ANY character out there and not be missed whatsoever.

If he's some sort of legendary hero and each game is someone else's interpretation of the story, then why doesn't it feel more like a story book with more narration as the plot progresses in each zelda game?

Can you name link's greatest fear? family? allies? dreams? Can you name an important past event/trait that's stayed consistant over all of the games? Or even his real first/last name?

You can't, because he's 1 diminsional.

Now as I look at today's generation of games with characters you can actually relate with or read into, I also notice another slightly pained trend....

Abuse of nintendo characters for the sheer sake of having their faces plastered all over the game (Why can't they make an ORIGINAL cast of characters to start in these games?) the horse isn't just dead and being beaten with a stick, the horse's skeleton has been pounded into dust, that dust's DNA extracted and cloned into another horse, and then that horse was beaten into a pulp again and again and again and again...well you get the idea.


How many pinball/kart/shooter/puzzle/party/music games are we going to see the characters in before we just get sick to our stomachs? How would you feel if you saw master chief pinball or Dante's super happy fun hell party?

And that brings me to another point, most of nintendo's fans and nintendo itself tries to pride itself on originality, but nintendo seems to suffer from fear of change or anything new, why butcher a perfectly good game with original characters (dinosaur planet) into a starfox game? Why have mario sunshine star mario when it's gameplay is not in the mario style? And why no online play in ANY first party game? (Double dash's laughable lan system doesn't count)


After nearly DROWNING under a pile of un-original mass-marketed crap from EVERY gaming company, why doesn't nintendo try something new with a fresh cast? or why can't they just make a new game with their classic cast that's ACTUALLY the same genre as the characters started with? (mario as a platformer, kirby as a platformer, starfox as an on rails shooter. etc...)


And another point, why do they NEVER listen to their fans? Earthbound got canned, does the huge surge in it's popularity and MILLION signature petition (when, correct me if i'm wrong but...the president of nintendo HIMSELF stated that if 500,000 people were interested in the game, they'd make it?) inspire them to re-unite the HAL/APE team to make another game for the N64/gamecube? No, they just put Ness in smash bros melee.


I do admire nintendo though, they have a huge cast of expendable characters that they can throw into any game, and are called the masters of innovation whenever they throw in a 2 game shot gimmick or expensive add on. And can take the characters we know and love and parade their dead rotting corpses out in a pinball game and regain popularity.

Here's to you nintendo, thanks for the NES/SNES and the good times, But think about the people you're trying to emulate for a moment. (The un-original market machines)

 

[skysnapper]

I loved the SNES (favorite system) and found the N64 to be mediocre at best,
and admired the gamecube's technical specs, but frowned on the non-standard medium for third parties and the first party biased controller design.

I know i'll catch tons of flack for this but whatever.

Why do I dislike them so much now you ask? As I look back to my favorite characters like mario, link, samus, Fox Mccloud.... I realize something,ire the technical specs of the gamecube but frown at the first party game oriented they are "Celeb" characters. Little to no depth, (minimal)back story, emotion, or personality. Just an easily recognized image to fall back on. Characters made to "look" Cool without going into that pesky second design process. And can easily be crammed into any pinball/racing/fighting game without anyone so much as batting an eye.....

While I could forgive mario and fox and their like, I think samus having such a thin back story and link having NO set back story at all is just corporate LAZINESS.

Why you ask? Can you name any of samus' family? any battles (besides zebes) she fought in in detail? Any of her greatest bounties? (Hell, if she's a bounty hunter then why is she out saving the world? Is she an ex-bounty hunter or still one?) can you name her personality? Exactly. You can't.


Now for link.... He has never said a word barring "EYRAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" and "HIYAAAAA!", and each game just mixes up his story more, he lacks personality, decisions of his own, and character in general. And has no family/friends/guardians that are set in stone in each game, And it feels as if he could be replaced by ANY character out there and not be missed whatsoever.

If he's some sort of legendary hero and each game is someone else's interpretation of the story, then why doesn't it feel more like a story book with more narration as the plot progresses in each zelda game?

Can you name link's greatest fear? family? allies? dreams? Can you name an important past event/trait that's stayed consistant over all of the games? Or even his real first/last name?

You can't, because he's 1 diminsional.

Now as I look at today's generation of games with characters you can actually relate with or read into, I also notice another slightly pained trend....

Abuse of nintendo characters for the sheer sake of having their faces plastered all over the game (Why can't they make an ORIGINAL cast of characters to start in these games?) the horse isn't just dead and being beaten with a stick, the horse's skeleton has been pounded into dust, that dust's DNA extracted and cloned into another horse, and then that horse was beaten into a pulp again and again and again and again...well you get the idea.


How many pinball/kart/shooter/puzzle/party/music games are we going to see the characters in before we just get sick to our stomachs? How would you feel if you saw master chief pinball or Dante's super happy fun hell party?

And that brings me to another point, most of nintendo's fans and nintendo itself tries to pride itself on originality, but nintendo seems to suffer from fear of change or anything new, why butcher a perfectly good game with original characters (dinosaur planet) into a starfox game? Why have mario sunshine star mario when it's gameplay is not in the mario style? And why no online play in ANY first party game? (Double dash's laughable lan system doesn't count)


After nearly DROWNING under a pile of un-original mass-marketed crap from EVERY gaming company, why doesn't nintendo try something new with a fresh cast? or why can't they just make a new game with their classic cast that's ACTUALLY the same genre as the characters started with? (mario as a platformer, kirby as a platformer, starfox as an on rails shooter. etc...)


And another point, why do they NEVER listen to their fans? Earthbound got canned, does the huge surge in it's popularity and MILLION signature petition (when, correct me if i'm wrong but...the president of nintendo HIMSELF stated that if 500,000 people were interested in the game, they'd make it?) inspire them to re-unite the HAL/APE team to make another game for the N64/gamecube? No, they just put Ness in smash bros melee.


I do admire nintendo though, they have a huge cast of expendable characters that they can throw into any game, and are called the masters of innovation whenever they throw in a 2 game shot gimmick or expensive add on. And can take the characters we know and love and parade their dead rotting corpses out in a pinball game and regain popularity.

Here's to you nintendo, thanks for the NES/SNES and the good times, But think about the people you're trying to emulate for a moment. (The un-original market machines)

​

wow thast one long rant, can you summarise it in one easy simple to swallow sentence for us lazy people

 

[CABBAGES]

I think there may be some angry people goin to reply here but dont worry i agree. Ive never got a nintendo since the snes (except the ds)

 

[Rico]

Well, might be something to do with the market not caring about complex characters. I sure don't. When you sat down to play the SNES games you claim to love, there was no backstory. Characters were simple sprites and abilities massed as one, and you played them as if you were the character.

This continues to present day, where Link is merely a vehicle for you to explore and interact with the world. Mario is just a jumping ball. Okay, Nintendo abused the brand with such abominations as Mario Party, but for everything else he is consistent and playing his role. It would be best if you just assumed each Link in each game was different and therefore had no backstory, since Nintendo seem to be taking this approach with the series.

You see, story isn't important. I don't play Mario games for their plot. So OK the Princess gets kidnapped again, great, more levels for me to explore. Samus drops by a war between two races in Echoes and decides to intervene just for the sake of an adventure. Link is an enigma whose backstory changes every game because he has no consistent universe. The universe of any given game is just a construct for gameplay, such as Wind Waker having Hyrule flooded just so you could sail around.

But this is not uncommon. Look at Half Life 2. Where's the serious backstory there? YOU play the adventures, instead of reading about them. There are no cutscenes. The character is not given a voice. Each game in the series is disconnected completely. Compare to Metroid Prime. It keeps true to the SNES and NES Metroids by not interfering with your interpretation of the character. It allows you to immerse yourself into the world, and be the character, instead of simply relating to someone you are controlling.

You bring up some other flaws. Such as the reliance on old characters. Big deal. As long as the games are decent, I don't really care. Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, etc. are knockoffs but seriously I would have enjoyed them with boring characters who Nintendo invented solely for the game. The Mario brand helps sell the games which is not a bad thing if it doesn't affect anyone else. Other good games: Wind Waker, Sunshine (which DOES use the Mario gameplay, it just expands on it), Paper Mario 2 (which, instead of being a 'shameless branding', used the characters to create an extraordinarily fun experience), F-Zero, and Prime 1/2. And Nintendo also bothered to introduce new franchises, such as Animal Crossing and Pikmin, to show that their creative juices are still flowing.

One critical mistake you make is to assume that Samus has no history. Although no history was necessary for the simple adventures of Super Metroid and Metroid, if you scan objects in Prime you'll find she was raised by the Chozo, and the game goes into quite a bit of detail regarding the Space Pirates and their plans.

Dinosaur Planet, however, I won't defend. I expect it was Rare's project, as they own (owned?) the characters now (then?). They made mistakes before with DK64, so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Rico]

wow thast one long rant, can you summarise it in one easy simple to swallow sentence for us lazy people

​

Or here's an idea, how about you keep out of the thread if you are too lazy to read the posts, but too stupid to avoid quoting the entire thing with a one line reply?

 

[c0ncept]

wow.

Considering that ninetendo have pioneered pretty much every single hardware advance since the snes (excepting the media that the games come on) I think its a little harsh to call them unoriginal. Not only did they invent analogue control but they also invented force feedback in consoles.

Nintendos characters as rico rightly pointed out can be played as if you were the character unlike, for instance GTA, where they pride themselves on being a sandbox world and then foist decisions that you would not have made if you were truley controlling the character. And I for one like the way that hyrule is reinvented in every game, it keeps the series fresh and interesting. Back stories are all well and good but if you really look at waht games are the most important thing about them is the interactivity. Narrative structure is really just gilding the lily. After all you don't see a story in marble madness, space invaders or other truly classic games.

In fact I was just thinking the other day that nowadays there really aren't any globally recognisable characters, true gaming celebrities. Even my grandmother can recognise mario and sonic and I think that is a really positive thing.

To quote Espen J Aarspeth:

"the dimensions of Lara Crofts body, already analysed to death by film theorists, are irrelevant to me as a player, because a different-looking body would not make me play differently... When I play, I don't even see her body, but see through it and past it."

BTW the N64 was the best multiplayer console that has yet been released, GoldenEye, perfect Dark and many others make it an excellent console to have if you have three other friends to play. And perfect dark is STILL the most revalutionary fps ever released on a console

[edit] If you call me a fan boy I will slaughter you, as I have all three main consoles and love them all for different reasons.

[edit 2] And in addition the GC controller is pure ergonomic genius, The buttons are perfectly arranged, its comfertable and not to big or small. The PS2 pad sucks donky ball (I still can't believe they didn't redesign for the ps2) I mean who use the D-pad more than the analogue sticks nowadays anyway?!?! And don't even get me started on the xbox pad...I played fable for three hours yesterday and my habds still ache (and I have the new smaller pad as well), whereas I have played resident Evil on the GC for a good 9 hrs straight and came away fine

[edit 3 (they just keep coming!)] Also, if by "first party biased controller" you mean one that isn't designed to make porting shitty ps2 games to it easy then I really don't think anyone will or should be apologising. If a third party company actually treated each console as an original entity and tried to make their game fit with the console rather than the other way round then I for one would be a LOT happier. I am sick to death of people like neversoft who do straight ports of their games and ignore the strengths and weaknesses of each sytem and their pad. Actually I just hte neversoft. They ruined the thps franchise with that THUG bollocks.

But yes, you are right, I really wish ninty would listen to its fans more, I waited for earthbound 64 forever.

 

[PinkSpider]

I personally love Nintendo (I only have a SNES and an N64 atm mind) but games should be fun experiences and while I love a good story heavy game (FF/ Disgaea etc) there is plenty of room for easily accessible games.

Shame Sega got out of the console game cause they are also good at this

Also Nintendo better bloody make the next starfox game and make it as good as 64 (even tho the new cube one looks ace in the air bits). Sigh.

 

[moz]

N fanboy here

cant get enough of more games from the characters i grew up with (im 30 now), biut like favorate actors

even when most of the games are just updated versions of the previous hardware.

a games doesnt become bad just because theres new hardware

 

[Dozer]

Although I understand your argument, I don't agree with it. Nintendo dares to be different and I admire them for that. Characters don't tend to have a background, but I don't mind that. They don't have to to make the game enjoyable.

I have an xbox that I play for quite a bit most days, but the games I tend to play most are emulated snes, n64 and even gameboy advance (with other systems too, but these the most).

I can't wait to get a gamecube. The first party games are the best because, imo, they aren't made to satisfy people with every console. For example, XIII can be played on every current gen console and has no real innovation. Nintendo keep bringing fresh deisgn ideas to their games. Just because I don't know if Link had a bed wetting problem when he was younger doesn't make me enjoy the game any less.

Btw, to the guy who says n64 is best for multiplayer, I prefer dreamcast .

 

[bast525]

I can't agree with you on Samus... as the Metroid games continue her story is becoming very fleshed out, all the games have been part of one continuous series, and there is a definate story there that has continued thru each one. While not much may be known about her background (what should we know, she is a mysterious bounty hunter... as if you never see these types of characters with the shady backgrounds in movies?), it has started to come out I believe in Metroid Prime, where we find just where she gets her suit and her link to the Chozo.

Anyways... a character like Mario needs no background... how much do you know about Mickey Mouse's childhood? Link's background is left purposely open... that game focuses much more on you assuming the character of link, hence why you have always been given the option to name him whatever you want in the game (funny though how we always do refer to him as Link! I have always named him Link in every Zelda game I've played). But I think every game in this series is either an alternate universe kinda thing, or another generation going thru the same cycle... there are references in The Wind Waker to an earlier Link facing off against Ganon. Agreed though the continuity there... well... there really isn't one.

I'm no fanboy, as can be seen in recent arguments in the DS vs PSP subject.... but I admit I do still love Nintendo games, and always look forward to the next Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. Regardless of how deep these characters are, the fact remains that the games in these series are usually second to none in fun level, and playability, and usually in production values as well. They still just know how to make really great games, regardless of who stars in them.

 

[p j]

Although I understand your argument, I don't agree with it. Nintendo dares to be different and I admire them for that. Characters don't tend to have a background, but I don't mind that. They don't have to to make the game enjoyable.

I have an xbox that I play for quite a bit most days, but the games I tend to play most are emulated snes, n64 and even gameboy advance (with other systems too, but these the most).

I can't wait to get a gamecube. The first party are the best because, imo, they aren't made to satisfy people with every console. For example, XIII can be played on every current gen console and has no real innovation. Nintendo keep bringing fresh deisgn ideas to their games. Just because I don't know if Link had a bed wetting problem when he was younger doesn't make me enjoy the game any less.

Btw, to the guy who says n64 is best for multiplayer, I prefer dreamcast .

​

i think it still remains that Nintendo do make great games, examples of this can be found in Metroid prime 2, paper Mario, Legend of Zelda-Windwaker.
But then again ive backed up your argument that their characters have been used alot by quoting some of the best recent nintendo games, and looking at them i can see they are just sequals, great ones though.
I like the gamecube controller, even more so than xbox s, with ps2's dualshock 2 trailing in the dust.
its ergonomic and confortable and well suited for any type of game, there i disagree with you.

TBH i reckon that you havent played deep enough into the nintendo world, imean c'mon have you even played mario64?
have you even got a gamecube?

 

[toxibunny]

Also Nintendo better bloody make the next starfox game and make it as good as 64 (even tho the new cube one looks ace in the air bits). Sigh.

​

are you talking about starfox adventures, or the newer one that's been announced?

I was really excited about that until I saw it has 'running about and shooting' bits... why didn't they stick with a straight into-the screen vehicle-based shooter? Lylat wars is class...

 

[bast525]

announced? uh... it's already out.... and it aint that good.

 

[c0ncept]

For all I care every game in the world could have the same charcter in it and it wouldn't affect the whether I played games or not. The reason I like the zelda series is because its good not because link is the main character. Therefore game sequals to me are just as desirable as entirely new IP's (as long as the game itself is good, that is)

I mean, there hasn't been a really iconic character since Lara Croft anyway.

 

[junker]

I agree with what most of you have said regarding characters and back stories. However, I do enjoy the old Nintendo titles over the new stuff(don't have time to get into that, but not important anyway). And about the controller, it really is an “ergonomic genius”, but more geared towards platformers in my opinion. And I absolutely love the S xbox pad for nearly any game type. Fits perfectly, and the triggers are the best things evAH!

 

[Mark]

Rico's right-Link etc. are just mouthpieces for the player. Shigsy has said this himself a few times.

As well as extending (or some would say abusing) the Nintendo mascots, new IP's include Animal Crossing, Pikmin and Another Code.


Then there's the ultra cute Nintendogs, if you're into that kind of thing. Which I am...

 

[Blah]

I am I the only other one who dislikes Nintendo?

Not only do the do their repackaging "New look, same great taste!" thing to their games but also to their consoles. There are rumors that they will make a 3rd GBA "redesign".

I am still mad at them from the SP fiasco. Even though I don't use my GBA anymore, I would take a frontlit original GBA over a GBA SP. You say they are the masters of ergonomics. Yeah right...does the SP look ergonomic to you?

Sony isn't the only one that designs their consoles for their old games. Yes, the PSP is designed for porting PS1 and PS2 games over to. But the GBA is designed for porting SNES games to. And the DS is designed for porting N64 and GC games to.

And if you think about it, that's how its always gone. The SNES was designed for porting NES games to. And did they do it? Of course. They just took the old NES game, slapped new sounds and graphics on it and added "Super" the the name.

And if you think about it that way, than effectively, the DS is also designed for porting SNES, NES and GBA games to and the GBA is also designed for porting NES games to. Did they do that? Of course. Look at the E-reader games for GBA which are pixel for pixel ports of NES games.

Nintendo used to be ok. Their games and systems were original, but now they've given up on that, and now I am very tired of their repackaged crap.

 

[RoboJoe32]

You're right about some characters not needing back stories, but how has nintendo pioneered anything but a handheld, a card reader, and a rumble pack in the hardware world? Why hasn't dreamcast or sega saturn been praised for their unique controllers/gimmicks too? (Ufo pad, samba de amigo maracas, Virtual on control sticks)

Nintendo didn't truely pioneer anything in my eyes except launch the popularity of gaming beyond "home computer" type all in one systems, Ok I take that back. They DID pioneer the art of only needing to release 1 original game every 2 years to regain street cred. :lol: (I kid)

And thanks for the calm reasonable replies, I expected to get "OMG STFU AND GO PLAY HALO/GTA K THX" Which is ironic, since I despise those for being unoriginal pieces of market-ware too.

My end arguement is basically this in one big paragraph/run on sentence.


Nintendo used to be great, but they've shoved the same characters in my face in some golf/paper RPG so much i've gotten utterly sick of them in every way, they are no longer original enjoyable characters, they are what I think of when I think of Over-marketing.... And they've killed off originality by promoting sequels and spinoffs of other games (Remember when games ended at the title and never had a number behind them? Me either.) and they've bullied their way to the top with frivilous lawsuits, copyright and constitutional rape (NES era) and bland "Wacky carefree no depth!" stance on games.

...That and their refusal to kill off the pokemon series and make something original. AND their stubborn "INTERNET= BAD" stance on online play, AND finally the real thing that pisses me off? the treatment they give to homebrew devs and small third parties. "Pay this much for a special dev kit with bloatware or die and we sue you" attitude and all.... Plus nintendo tried to get import stores into shit. Like people who don't live in a certain place don't deserve any games <_<

 

[PinkSpider]

Also Nintendo better bloody make the next starfox game and make it as good as 64 (even tho the new cube one looks ace in the air bits). Sigh.

​

are you talking about starfox adventures, or the newer one that's been announced?

I was really excited about that until I saw it has 'running about and shooting' bits... why didn't they stick with a straight into-the screen vehicle-based shooter? Lylat wars is class...

​

The new one; I love lylat wars so much (just got another cube and lylat wars for it) but I hear the foot missions and tank bits are shitty - Still I will buy another cube and it just for the air bits. Lylat Wars is just so fucking fun (hopefully Nintendo dont do this again on the next N platform and make it a good all rounder like the 64 version!).

 

[kotd]

Man theres tons of us nintendo haters, its just most don't post because the backlash from the anooying ninty fan boys just pisses us off.

They're an old fashion company with old ways and unwilling to change thier business practices. If you want to be a successul company you have to adapt with the times and I don't see Nintendo changing anything any time soon. Maybe when the DS and Revolution get a thrashing?