All Refunds Not Sent Yet

[VRAndy]

I'm going to follow your advice. You've convinced me.

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded,[ ...] All done. [...]

Thanks for the update. We were all really worried about you. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we're all pretty relieved that you've managed to conduct some small bit of banking to a satisfactory conclusion.

Be sure to let us know if anything else develops in this fascinating story.

 

[gaterooze]

All done. I suggest that all US orders do exactly the same thing.

Not if they want a Pandora, obviously. That's where your tactic falls down. If you now go and buy a second batch Pandora in a few months you will likely have to pay even more (the price is now $339, you will only get $330 from the chargeback, on top of screwing the devs). Congratulations, Mr Chairman.

I just hope you at least had the courtesy to email OpenPandora and inform them of your actions so that they don't refund you and that your Pandora will be available for some lucky person.

 

[j.pickens]

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded, and that the equivalent in GBP will be deducted from the seller's accounts.

Wanna' bet on that fantasy?

 

[jabz]

Just got my Re-Order email Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 5:57 AM

I am in NZ. I will be waiting for the credit card reorder page. One question I haven't seen answered. i didnt order the TV cable and Case, will I be able to add these to my order from the Re-order page?

thanks

 

[javaJake]

Got my re-order e-mail today too. Definitely sending it back. (Edit: The money, not the e-mail.) This is the last straw moneywise, though. Fees are going to hit about $50 total after this next refund/repurchase.

 

[zeropro]

i'm back with more eyebrow raising questions (I cant believe I let this slip through before) Okay everybody who is paying attention. The common theme I have seen here in those promoting "patience" is this: "Dont worry, you will only have to pay what you were refunded......Lets think about this for a moment because there are 2 issues here that make this thing sem even more well you know where Im going with this...Fact 1. SUPPOSEDLY the "refunds" (and I use that term sparingly, because its not really that) are being done by some bank yadda yadda yadda, if this fact were true Craig and Co would not know how much each person is refunded nor how much they should be paying. Fact 2. If the you pay what you were refunded story is hold true, this means the price of the freaking Pandora changes everyday and dependant on where you live on this earth. this is simply ridiculous guys and gals point blank.Ive also noticed contradictory information in these threads so what is it folks, are these refunds being done by a bank or by somebody else, Not sure why a bank would have to do them 1 by 1. Something is very fishy here!!!!! To have a device that was planned for delivery um like yesterday, and then to see renders for new case designs totally floors me. nyone else want to comment on my 2 points though? Open your brains people

 

[Tom`]

blah blah blah

There's hardly any point in repeating this, because you're obviously too thickheaded to have absorbed it the first ten times, but ... Craig only knows how much you paid in GBP. Exchange rates fluctuate continuously, so the price you need to pay does indeed change if you paid in a currency other than GBP. The price does indeed change every day and depend on where you live; this is basic economics. It's been stated that the bank is in charge of the refunds, while GBAX/OpenPandora is handling the e-mails, which is why they don't happen at the same time. Nothing contradictory there.

The only point you're succeeding in making is that you're too stupid to read the many explanations of exactly what is happening, posted by several different people already, in this thread and others.

 

[zeropro]

Tom, you humor me, there hasnt been one explanation from somebody that matters yet and this includes you lol. Now just for your information smart guy this isnt basic economics at all, its total bs. What bank would process refunds one by one? A real "bank" can do what is called a reversal of charges. look it up smart guy Tom. Craig doesn't know how much is being REFUNDED is what I said you idiot. And tell me if you really think it is okay that Joe in Australia paid less than you for the same device because he received a refund before you and repaid before the markets changed LOL that is hilarious if you think thats okay. But seriously Tom I know you're on the bandwagon pretty tough and all, but someone with a pay grade above yours needs to respond to the issues and inconsistencies , i do not accept your rant. Cracks me up...

 

[mali]

@lobski

It isn't up, yet. Look here for more info:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry665751

@zeropro
Could you please post in one thread only, and don't copy the same post to other threads?
It's very hard to find questions and answer them among these huge repetitive discussions.
Thx.

@Mod
I'm really against intervention, but this particular discussion should be forced to go elsewhere, because it buries questions of other members. An own thread in Off Topic would be the right choice IMO.
Or the participants agree to stop now, alternatively.
Thx.

 

[gaterooze]

And tell me if you really think it is okay that Joe in Australia paid less than you for the same device because he received a refund before you and repaid before the markets changed

He didn't. Everyone effected has paid the same amount in UKP.

That's a weird argument. I could buy a book on Amazon today and pay AU$10. Someone could order the same book a month from now and pay AU$8. But we both still paid the same US$7.

 

[Rathum]

Honestly, I doubt zeropro even ordered a Pandora. In all likelihood, he's just trolling. It's not like it would be hard to find out enough information to bait people.

 

[Chip]

Fact 1. SUPPOSEDLY the "refunds" (and I use that term sparingly, because its not really that) are being done by some bank yadda yadda yadda, if this fact were true Craig and Co would not know how much each person is refunded nor how much they should be paying.
This is broadly true. The orders show up in GBP no matter what currency you paid with. We don't see the amount you receive from your refund in your local currency. The amount in your currency is irrelevant because if you reorder shortly after you receive your refund, it will be converted back into GBP at the same rate and the amount we receive on our end will be identical to the amount you were refunded.

QUOTE
Fact 2. If the you pay what you were refunded story is hold true, this means the price of the freaking Pandora changes everyday and dependant on where you live on this earth.
The price for the Pandora was set at preorder time at 199GBP, $330USD, or 212 Euros. This was converted to GBP when you ordered. The conversion was transparent on your end, unless your bank or CC company charged you a conversion fee. Because of severe currency fluctuations in the past couple months, the amount you paid in GBP at preorder time does not necessarily convert back into the same amount now as it did then.

Think of it this way: compared to the GBP, a dollar back in September was worth a different amount than a dollar today. You paid $330 September dollars then, we're refunding you $330 September dollars now, and you can reorder with $330 September dollars. The fact that $330 September dollars is less than $330 Today dollars doesn't really matter, since we're not asking you to pay in Today dollars.

Again, your "fact" is broadly true, but it's broadly true for all products paid for in a non-native currency. Just ask anybody from Australia or Canada who has ordered something from the US. Their local currency fluctuations mean that the price that they pay for goods from the US really does change from day to day.

 

[gaterooze]

No, I genuinely think zeropro and others have a valid complaint, it's just that it's been blown waaayyy out of proportion. We're talking about maybe a 1-3% additional cost (in exchange for double the RAM) yet people treat it like the end of the world.

C'mon, let's pull together as a community (since this *is* a community device) and help the Pandora through this difficult stage (with patience and understanding)--we will be rewarded with a great device (thoroughly tested and well-made) and a stronger community for it.

 

[Shmargin]

You know, with the "decrease in value" for the value of the euro to the dollar, during the transactions, thay have made a quarter of a million dollars without shipping anything.

 

[ion]

I feel as if all of the problems that are apparent would not exist if the following had happened.

1.) An actual Pandora had been assembled (Seriously, how many months has it been? None of the parts are in either? What?)
2.) The Pandora's would've been made before payment (Sure that takes money, but its obvious that that would've been sold eventually, look at the amount of people on the board who said they would've bought one)
3.) Payment went out... Pandora's delivered to buyers. Done.

Normally, when people Preorder things, prototypes, test versions or beta's (or software in this case) have been shown/made/produced before hand. In Pandora's case, absolutely nothing except a couple grainy youtube videos have been shown...

If you guys wanted to see how many people wanted to buy a Pandora, then you could've just asked them to put 10% down as a "pre-order" Pandora certificate which guarantees them one. Obviously people don't want to just waste and give $30 away so its pretty fair to say that 99.9% of the people who preorder will order the actual thing when its been built.

Overall this entire thing has been managed terribly. Bank issues or not it could've been handled much better than it has right now.

Ask yourself this (to whoever is reading this). If this device was just from some Chinese company who put some youtube video's out and launched a site similar to OpenPandora and had preorders out (Dispute not even having the device completed), how many of you would preorder the entire amount to basically some person, or company that is totally unknown?

Don't bother answering, because we all know you wouldn't.

PS: The "256mb" ram increase is laughable because what difference does the amount of ram make if there is no device? None. I would rather have the device soon than later with 256mb ram. I mean, when was this suppose to originally come out? Long ago... Not to mention that the GUI and Firmware aren't even done... not to mention packaging and assembly, oh god.

This many issues with just the money? I don't wanna know the actual, you know real issues like assembly and such. I'm interested to see the results of this and once the beta-testers (I'll call them that since that's what they are) get their pandora's and say positive things, I'll order from the second batch.

Until then, back to my GP2x.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this is awfully similar to the Phantom.. then again that had actual units to display.. so that would make this.. worse?

 

[TaG]

I'm going to follow your advice. You've convinced me.

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded,[ ...] All done. [...]
Thanks for the update. We were all really worried about you. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we're all pretty relieved that you've managed to conduct some small bit of banking to a satisfactory conclusion.

Be sure to let us know if anything else develops in this fascinating story. :lol: Thank you VRAndy for making something amusing in one of these threads.

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded, and that the equivalent in GBP will be deducted from the seller's accounts.
Wanna' bet on that fantasy?Can't see how that's gonna work if it was a GBP transaction. Be sure to let us know when you finally get all your dollars CN.

Got my re-order e-mail today too. Definitely sending it back. (Edit: The money, not the e-mail.) This is the last straw moneywise, though. Fees are going to hit about $50 total after this next refund/repurchase.
How does the $50 breakdown javaJake? Is that bank currency charges?

C'mon, let's pull together as a community (since this *is* a community device) and help the Pandora through this difficult stage (with patience and understanding)--we will be rewarded with a great device (thoroughly tested and well-made) and a stronger community for it.
Agreed, and well done for keeping positive, reasonable and attempting to keep giving responses.

I do think the 'community' is pulling together, by and large. The most vocal complaints seem to be from those that haven't joined in much prior to pre-orders.

You know, with the "decrease in value" for the value of the euro to the dollar, during the transactions, thay have made a quarter of a million dollars without shipping anything.
Who made quarter of a mil? openpandora didn't get the money to use, and they got in GBP what they asked for. This is like saying it's unfair because some bankers make lots of money every day speculating on currency - it's not got anything to do with this situation.

I feel as if all of the problems that are apparent would not exist if the following had happened...
I feel as if all of the problems that are apparent would not exist if the following had happened.
1.) People understood what it was they signed up for and handed over money for.
2.) People had researched what they were getting into, had understood what the developers had said about how it worked.
3.) Not handed over cash to a company they had never heard of for a product that didn't exist and then after the event say "this sounds dodgy".
4.) There were no global financial crisis.
5.) There was only one currency in the world (which would have to be USD, of course, because some treat it like there are no other currencies in the world )

 

[salasq]

You know, with the "decrease in value" for the value of the euro to the dollar, during the transactions, thay have made a quarter of a million dollars without shipping anything.

Wrong. The currency conversion is done at YOUR bank. YOUR bank sends out the sums in GBP, so YOUR bank sells you the GBP to be transferred (either transfer or CC, works the same both ways). When refunded, it's YOUR bank that buys the GBP back from you at current rate. Craig & Co never see a penny more than the GBP199 they are due.

This is also why Chairman is full of poo, or, on an off chance, has a bank willing to take a hit for him.

5.) There was only one currency in the world (which would have to be USD, of course, because some treat it like there are no other currencies in the world )

Interestingly, I gather dealing with multiple currencies is a problem for exactly the same people who have yet to grok the intricacies of more than one languague

 

[TaG]

This is also why Chairman is full of poo, or, on an off chance, has a bank willing to take a hit for him.
Bank... take hit for someone... Don't understand.

Interestingly, I gather dealing with multiple currencies is a problem for exactly the same people who have yet to grok the intricacies of more than one languague
Not entirely - being English I am fairly typical by being rubbish at languages, but can deal with forex.

 

[m1dget]

It's my first post here and I just want to know a little something.
I am from montreal, quebec, canada and I just received the email from openpandoraorders@gmail.com saying that my order will have to be refunded and I just want to make sure that I won't miss anything.

Sorry for asking what could be qualified as a newbish question (and an annoying one) but if I read correctly, my order that I made via credit card will be entirely refunded and after open pandora will have on their site a link to another website where I will be able to enter my old order number + the info needed to order a second time?

I have another question concerning the sender of the email... I don't fear a scam or anything, but the email I received for the refund was "from: openpandoraorders@gmail.com" and "sender: gp2xorders@googlemail.com".

I don't remember having my original order email sent by google mail and I just want to make sure that everything is legit and I am not getting scammed in any way.

Thanks and keep up the good work


PS: can't wait to get -> andora1:

 

[gaterooze]

Ask yourself this (to whoever is reading this). If this device was just from some Chinese company who put some youtube video's out and launched a site similar to OpenPandora and had preorders out (Dispute not even having the device completed), how many of you would preorder the entire amount to basically some person, or company that is totally unknown?

Don't bother answering, because we all know you wouldn't.

Hehehe - you're asking the wrong forum mate That's exactly what we did with the GP2X! How do you think it got off the ground in the first place?

GPH (technically a new company then, although made up of some former GP people, much like OpenPandora are the longtime distros of GP32 & GP2X) required preorders in order to pay for the very first batch to be created. It was far "dodgier" than the Pandora project, but a bunch of us still dived in. Unfortunately they rushed it out without proper quality control - which is probably why we are happy for the Pandora devs to take more time and make sure everything is right.