50 Hz Or 60 Hz - What Is The "correct" Speed On Older Gaming C

[gagster]

Since I live in Europa, I've always enjoyed my Sega Master System games in PAL mode, or in other words 50 hz. That's around 83% of the gameplay speed you get on a 60 hz television, and thereby it may be possible I have enjoyed my games at a slower pace than it was "meant to be played".

So my question is; are the Sega Master System/Genesis/Nes and so on games meant to be played in 60 hz by the game programmers, or are they meant to be played at 50 hz speed?

 

[mindlord]

Timing is also dependent on the game cartridge itself - this is why there are different versions of games for different regions. Sonic (NTSC) on a Genesis plays at the same perceived speed as Sonic (PAL) on a Megadrive. Those with NTSC TV's just got to see a few extra frames of the action during that second. Sonic moves the same number of pixels per second in both cases.

As for which one is "correct" - whichever makes you happy.

 

[Exophase]

If you're playing a game that was released for the PAL region then the game was supposed to be designed or redesigned with a 50Hz refresh rate in mind. If the game is a port of one released in NTSC regions then the internal timing should have been compensated to try to make things happen at roughly the same times.

Since game logic itself was updated in full frame intervals there was probably not a lot of precision for some things. For instance, of a game moved an enemy at 1 pixel per frame then it'd be hard to adjust the code to make it move at an effective 1.2 pixels instead. In practice, even NES games usually had sub-pixel precision for sprite coordinates and whatnot. So if the developer was trying very hard then the game speed should be pretty close.

Unfortunately, since the NTSC region was much more significant in the gaming world some PAL games were sloppily/quickly ported and didn't have the timing properly adjusted.

So there are three cases: ones where the timing was well adjusted across the board and the average speed was close, ones where some aspects (like music) were done well while others were not, and ones where nothing was done at all. I don't really know what the relative frequencies of these occurrences are; someone with more experience with games from both regions would have to comment.

 

[mindlord]

I try sometimes to play games from different regions with the same title, just to see if there were any differences. Sometimes there are minor changes, but most of the time they are identical. Being from an NTSC region I could "feel" a difference when playing PAL versions of games that I played NTSC versions of before, but the overall speed always felt pretty much the same. It's just the unusualness of the missing 10fps and the whole different pixel count thing. I don't think I've played a game where there was a noticeable difference in overall speed, though.

I didn't realize that console programmers used vblank as a timing mechanism. I would think the system clock would be more reliable.

 

[Exophase]

I didn't realize that console programmers used vblank as a timing mechanism. I would think the system clock would be more reliable.

PAL and NTSC consoles tend to run at different clock rates anyway. But timing around vblank makes a lot of sense. Otherwise your onscreen events and internal logic aren't synchronized. In 3D this is less of an issue since the graphics are far more generated anyway, but in 2D you want finer deliberate control over what appears on the screen.

It's also just more expensive having interrupts on a timer in addition to vblank interrupts. A lot of old consoles don't even have timers.

 

[notaz]

Sonic (NTSC) on a Genesis plays at the same perceived speed as Sonic (PAL) on a Megadrive. Those with NTSC TV's just got to see a few extra frames of the action during that second.

This is only true for Sonic2 and later, the first one wasn't properly ported, and I'm used to the slower PAL speed that I played back in the day.

 

[Exophase]

This is only true for Sonic2 and later, the first one wasn't properly ported, and I'm used to the slower PAL speed that I played back in the day.

Heh, that must have made all the time you spent waiting for moving platforms to align all the more annoying. The music was at least the right speed, right?

 

[PokeParadox]

This is only true for Sonic2 and later, the first one wasn't properly ported, and I'm used to the slower PAL speed that I played back in the day.

Heh, that must have made all the time you spent waiting for moving platforms to align all the more annoying. The music was at least the right speed, right?

I don't remember exactly... but I think the music was a little slow too.
As a rule of thumb for emulation I tend to play the 60Hz versions of games where possible although strictly there is no right or wrong version... just some sloppy PAL conversions!

 

[Thomas Dequinas]

No need to argue, 60Hz is the correct speed.

/thread

 

[Dunny]

No need to argue, 60Hz is the correct speed.

Not at all - the undisputed king of all the 8bits, the Spectrum, was timed at 50Hz. Running it at 60Hz would have pretty much ruined your experience - especially the sound/music.

I recall the later Amiga models had a method of running at 60Hz which would, according to all the magazines of the time "run your games faster" and indeed it did. Given that, I'd say that 50Hz is indeed the correct frequency.

D.

 

[Exophase]

Not at all - the undisputed king of all the 8bits, the Spectrum, was timed at 50Hz. Running it at 60Hz would have pretty much ruined your experience - especially the sound/music.

I recall the later Amiga models had a method of running at 60Hz which would, according to all the magazines of the time "run your games faster" and indeed it did. Given that, I'd say that 50Hz is indeed the correct frequency.

D.

Why do you get into these troll arguments? >_>

 

[Dunny]

Not at all - the undisputed king of all the 8bits, the Spectrum, was timed at 50Hz. Running it at 60Hz would have pretty much ruined your experience - especially the sound/music.

I recall the later Amiga models had a method of running at 60Hz which would, according to all the magazines of the time "run your games faster" and indeed it did. Given that, I'd say that 50Hz is indeed the correct frequency.

D.

Why do you get into these troll arguments? >_>

Because there is fuck all else to do around here. And they really are the most wonderful fun. Honestly.

D.