3d Demos

[Vorporeal]

My guess is 55MHz? I think I read somewhere here that they have to run the SGX at 55MHz with the current drivers for some reason.

 

[lulzfish]

You said something about a low framerate. I don't know which videos you were talking about, but the one with the robot samurai was said to be an issue with the camera, not the SGX.

All the other stuff looks totally awesome. It'll be great to have something capable of vertex and pixel shading in such a small package.

 

[mali]

The samurai demo was on Beagle Board.
It would be nice to have a clock-speed table.
500MHz CPU/xxMHz SGX/xxMHz DSP
600MHz CPU/xxMHz SGX/xxMHz DSP
etc.
There are different multipliers involved, so different SGX/DSP clocks at a given CPU setting might be possible. Another thing to note is, that different settings don't result in linear upscale. On OMAP2 for example the DSP runs at a lower speed when CPU is at 400MHz than when the CPU is at 333MHz.

 

[DJWillis]

Impressive Demos. It looks like some effects onto the SGX are better than onto my old GeForce 3 graphic Card. What was the Resolution? Full 800x480 or less? (I bet that even 400x240 will look amazing onto the Pandora screen)
Are there any fillrate tests in these Demos?

Full 800x480. Not tried 400x240 but it is something to consider.

My guess is 55MHz? I think I read somewhere here that they have to run the SGX at 55MHz with the current drivers for some reason.

Well the default clock gets set to 55MHz due to the recent (ish) changes in the Linux OMAP clocks framework. That said, running it at 110MHz is a trivial fix, just not something I have put in the images yet. Pretty sure I had it running at 55MHz when I videoed my demo.

 

[Tor]

It's interesting to see that some of the demos are quite similar to those that used to demo the Silicon Graphics 3D functionality -- back when you needed a fridge-sized Onyx to do them.

 

[darkblu]

If anyone is interested I can post another thread with screenshots from my experiments. ;]

i think you can safely drop the predicate : )

 

[fusion_power]

Full 800x480. Not tried 400x240 but it is something to consider.

I hope, the Pandora has a good Hardware Scaler so we will have no performance lost if the Device scales 400x240 to full screen. A Clean 2x scaling of a 3D application without additional effects should be faster than a full Screen 800x480 res...right? \^_\^

Well the default clock gets set to 55MHz due to the recent (ish) changes in the Linux OMAP clocks framework. That said, running it at 110MHz is a trivial fix, just not something I have put in the images yet. Pretty sure I had it running at 55MHz when I videoed my demo.

Would a 55MHz setting increase the battery Time compared to 110Mhz? If true this could be also an interesting Power-saving method for Programs that only need 55MHz for the SGX Unit.

 

[craigix]

The Pandora LCD supports 400*240 in hardware, no need to scale.

 

[Pickle]

Great
Pickle is working on an OpenGL ES version of Quake AFAIK, it would would be really cool to have a vid of it sometime
If there are OpenGL ES experts reading this, he might be happy to get some help, he is active in the WIZ section of this board.

Doesn`t that already exist? CODE
http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/Download.html


Yep im playing around with this stuff.
All 3 of those projects use a opengl to opengles wrapper called nanoGL. Other than special changes for the symbian os those quake engines are really unchanged. (Ive actually wondered how many other opengl programs would work off it)
After seeing a demo for the wiz, I was able to get quake 1 running (note that this quake 1 engine was meant to run on opengl), but it is very slow. The driver is suspect.

The good news is that what ive done on the wiz should only need some minor tweaks, a recompile and just run on the pandora. I will try to get something going to this week. If this works on quake 1 then gettting the other engines running should be trivial.

 

[craigix]

I'm quite excited to see the Q1 benchmark @ 800*480, even with such early code and drivers.

It's going to look so sharp on that screen

 

[Vorporeal]

Full 800x480. Not tried 400x240 but it is something to consider.

I hope, the Pandora has a good Hardware Scaler so we will have no performance lost if the Device scales 400x240 to full screen. A Clean 2x scaling of a 3D application without additional effects should be faster than a full Screen 800x480 res...right? \^_\^

Well the default clock gets set to 55MHz due to the recent (ish) changes in the Linux OMAP clocks framework. That said, running it at 110MHz is a trivial fix, just not something I have put in the images yet. Pretty sure I had it running at 55MHz when I videoed my demo.

Would a 55MHz setting increase the battery Time compared to 110Mhz? If true this could be also an interesting Power-saving method for Programs that only need 55MHz for the SGX Unit.


IIRC, the battery life gains would be minimal. The OMAP has very good power saving capabilities, and does a great job of conserving battery life during idle times in processing chips. The power usage should be very similar for 55MHz vs. 110MHz because the faster clock speed will decrease the amount of time spent processing and will increase idle time.

 

[WizardStan]

Good thing we have not turned it up to 11 yet then.

You mean 110? 110MHz ?

If yes - what's the SGX clock on those videos ?

Do a search for "this is spinal tap" and watch that video. Only then will you understand a joke that 90% of the English speaking population has driven deep into the ground.

 

[argor]

Full 800x480. Not tried 400x240 but it is something to consider.

I hope, the Pandora has a good Hardware Scaler so we will have no performance lost if the Device scales 400x240 to full screen. A Clean 2x scaling of a 3D application without additional effects should be faster than a full Screen 800x480 res...right? \^_\^

Well the default clock gets set to 55MHz due to the recent (ish) changes in the Linux OMAP clocks framework. That said, running it at 110MHz is a trivial fix, just not something I have put in the images yet. Pretty sure I had it running at 55MHz when I videoed my demo.

Would a 55MHz setting increase the battery Time compared to 110Mhz? If true this could be also an interesting Power-saving method for Programs that only need 55MHz for the SGX Unit.


IIRC, the battery life gains would be minimal. The OMAP has very good power saving capabilities, and does a great job of conserving battery life during idle times in processing chips. The power usage should be very similar for 55MHz vs. 110MHz because the faster clock speed will decrease the amount of time spent processing and will increase idle time.

PowerVR's SGX530 power consumption of only ~100mW
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/711

 

[MDave]

I think this is easily missed, but there is a nice long clearer 3d demo video posted up on the official blog. It seems to be completely ignored except by me in the blog update thread, probably because people think its the one linked here in the first post

 

[Xmas]

As a side note - I`ve made some experiments regarding limiting shader/fillrate via chrominance subsampling (rendering low-res chrominance and full-res luminance on SGX and then reconstruction to RGB on DSP).
It seems that with some creative color space (I`ve made something YUV-alike) and joint bilateral upsampling it looks mostly OK when chrominance is sub-sampled as low as 1/16.
This gives (1+1+1)/(1+1/16+1/16) = 2.66(7) times less shader invocations on SGX (with some limitations).

Except you don't have a shader invocation per color channel. Calculating luminance often isn't much cheaper than calculating an RGBA colour per pixel.

The Pandora LCD supports 400*240 in hardware, no need to scale.

Pixel doubling often isn't ideal, though, and you lose the ability to display UI elements at a higher resolution. As I mentioned in another thread, the OMAP3's display controller supports scaling (primarily intended for video and quite flexible) on two of the three available layers. You could set it to upscale a lower-res 3D framebuffer while having GUI elements shown on top of it at full resolution.

 

[maciek_urbanski]

Except you don't have a shader invocation per color channel. Calculating luminance often isn't much cheaper than calculating an RGBA colour per pixel.

True and not true at the same time. ;]
SGX registers are scalar, so most of the time shader that calculates 3 channels takes 3x more clocks that shader that calculates only 1 channel.
If we do averything in two pases:
1. rendering to one full resolution luminance plane (800x480) with 1 component/pixel
2. rendering to second 1/16 resolution chrominance plane (200x120) with 2 components/pixel

We render 1+2/16 channels/pixel instead of 3 and most of the time save the same amount of clocks (some guesstimation obviously happens here).

I assume that funky-adaptive-upscaler-on-DSP is essentially free, since we can overlap its work with SGX rendering.

 

[hedwards]

Do a search for "this is spinal tap" and watch that video. Only then will you understand a joke that 90% of the English speaking population has driven deep into the ground.

OK, so I'm not the only one that was puzzled that the response wasn't that it's one better than 10.

As for the videos, they scare me, the quality is quite good and it's pretty clear that the gaming possibilities will be pushing 12.

 

[maciek_urbanski]

Good thing we have not turned it up to 11 yet then.

You mean 110? 110MHz ?

If yes - what's the SGX clock on those videos ?

Do a search for "this is spinal tap" and watch that video. Only then will you understand a joke that 90% of the English speaking population has driven deep into the ground.


Oh I remember this one.

Funny, but I don't get it in context of CraigX response... ;(

 

[edwin_cartagena]

I CAN SEE DOOM 3 IN PANDORA!!! :blink:

 

[Username]

Good thing we have not turned it up to 11 yet then.
You mean 110? 110MHz ?

If yes - what's the SGX clock on those videos ?Do a search for this is spinal tap and watch that video. Only then will you understand a joke that 90% of the English speaking population has driven deep into the ground.Oh I remember this one. :-

Funny, but I don't get it in context of CraigX response... ;(
I'm guessing he means it isn't at full speed yet. Great movie by the way.