15€ Pandora

[elwing]

isn't this the third ridiculously low price hardware for india education announced? I think I'm remembering two other announcement made a few years ago... I believe this won't go anywhere too...


at least I'm certain you won't be able to buy em for 15$...

hum, I was wrong it was already the same tablet, but it was announced a few years ago... it was stated as being under 35$ at that time... I guess it will be announced for 1$ in three year...

 

[00001111]

You would have been better off comparing Pandora to something like the Zipit Z2. At least that is a clamshell device with a keyboard running linux.

 

[sswam]

Concerning the game pad and keyboard, this is one of the only things the Akaash lacks.

This plus an iCP2 would be quite competitive to the Pandora.


But it's bigger - not pocket sized - and lacks the 2x SD slots and USB I suppose...

 

[TrashyMG]

Concerning the game pad and keyboard, this is one of the only things the Akaash lacks.

This plus an iCP2 would be quite competitive to the Pandora.

competitive is one thing.. convenient is another..

 

[2bit]

I'm assuming the icp2 will be cheaper than the original open pandora . Cheaper means it will appeal to a broader audience , and thus make more more money . Win - win for everybody .

 

[TrashyMG]

I'm assuming the icp2 will be cheaper than the original open pandora . Cheaper means it will appeal to a broader audience , and thus make more more money . Win - win for everybody .

Yes, but the iCP2 and random phone/tablet device doesn't provide a single platform to develop software on.. Personally I have no interest in having keyboard or game controls for an Android or iOS device.. And it doesn't fully fill the shoes the Pandora does..


Not saying it's a bad device, I'm a supporter of it.. Just not using it on my Phone or tablet.

 

[2bit]

I'm assuming the icp2 will be cheaper than the original open pandora . Cheaper means it will appeal to a broader audience , and thus make more more money . Win - win for everybody .

Yes, but the iCP2 and random phone/tablet device doesn't provide a single platform to develop software on.. Personally I have no interest in having keyboard or game controls for an Android or iOS device.. And it doesn't fully fill the shoes the Pandora does..


Not saying it's a bad device, I'm a supporter of it.. Just not using it on my Phone or tablet.

Oh no , no you misunderstood me . I would take my Pandora ( which is less than a foot away from me right now btw ) over the combo of ICP2 and random tablet any day just it may be a cheaper option for some and or those who were just going to install android and use it exclusively any how .

 

[sswam]

Many (smartphone + icp2) combos will positively kick Pandora's ass in almost all ways; I love my Pandora and I'm sorry to say it.


The only way Pandora 2 can be a great success, is if it is based on smart-phone + icp2 + sugar / casing / peripheral interfaces,


which I think indeed it will be ... "modular design" anyone? It would be daft not to do this, since smartphones are so much cheaper


off-the-shelf than anything OPT can hope to produce in low volumes. It may seem like anathema to go this way, but it would work well.


If OPT is not planning to do this, they/we damn-well SHOULD be planning to do it, before they waste a whole lot of money


developing a Pandora 2 from scratch, which will likely be obsolescent (at least performance-wise) before the bugs are ironed out.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well I'll argue that most smartphones you get are not cheaper than the Pandora..


For example my new phone, which seems typical for entry level smartphones in my area and I could drop more money to get the latest and greatest cost me $200 upfront.. Since I'm forced into a data plan that's costing me $35 dollars a month more.. And I'm on an 18 month contract.


200 + (35 x18) = $830


And that isn't accounting for the rest of the phone bill or that I'll likely have this phone for longer than 18 months..

 

[Binky]

add the cost of an iCP2 to that...

 

[sswam]

Well I'll argue that most smartphones you get are not cheaper than the Pandora..

( ... and yet, some people continue to doubt me! )


Samsung Galaxy SII + iCP2:


$420 AUD ($340 + $80), or get a faster, newer SIII + iCP2 for $560


2 * 1.2Ghz cores


1GB RAM


16GB micro-SD (up to 64GB)


4.27" WVGA (480x800) Super AMOLED Plus multi-touch


micro USB slave, USB OTG host


backlit keyboard and gaming controls


not so great audio (I guess)


cellular phone / internet, two cameras, GPS, gyro, accelerometer


difficult to install custom Linux OS, no standard or community for that


Latest Android OS


1650 mAh battery


mainstream company


"SmartPhone Of The Year 2012", "the best Android smartphone yet", "possibly the best smartphone, period."


comparative score: 8 / 13


Pandora 1GHz:


$690 AUD (64% more expensive)


1 * 1GHz core


512MB RAM


512MB NAND, plus 2 * SD (up to 256GB), not included


4.3" WVGA (800x480) LCD touch


USB host, USB OTG host


non-backlit keyboard and gaming controls


superior audio


no cellular phone / internet, cameras, GPS, gyro, accelerometer


custom Linux OS with PND package system


Older Android OS


4200mAh battery


indie company


"best little device ever"


comparative score: 5 / 13


While the phone and the Pandora both have their advantages,


the Android phone seems to have an edge, especially if price is a concern.


The phone+iCP2 is 10% cheaper even than the "rebirth" Pandora.


Price gets two points, other factors get one point each. Yes, I do value a backlight!


Even if we forget the phone's major price advantage, it wins by 6/11 versus 5/11.


Don't get me wrong, I love the Pandora; but we need to consider how to compete with cheaper phone + controller combos like this one.


(I've just about sold myself on that phone, by the way!)


edit: added battery comparison

 

[Exophase]

Good luck finding a 4200mAh+ battery on a phone. Even Razr Maxx HD doesn't hit this capacity. You'd also miss out on at least a full USB port, and a full SD slot if OPT does the right thing on that front.


And why apply a comparison between Pandora and an old phone to Pandora 2? The big "feature" they're touting for Pandora 2 is that it won't end up with years behind hardware. It might be different for the Pandora currently out but that's not exactly trying to etch out a new market. You say phones will be cheaper than anything OPT can put out but I hope they eventually prove this wrong and don't actually commit to a $700 price point for the remainder of their existence. If they get down to $500 with competitive hardware then they've already edged out your price argument. Phones have huge margins and the phone part actually does cost money so it's not totally impossible to do a device that isn't a phone for less, even with OPT's volumes.


We've been through the OS thing to death, but I don't want to just get a device that I can put an unofficial Linux on. I want a device where everyone uses Linux so I can release stuff using it and count on people actually running it.


Where are you finding Galaxy S3s for 480 AUD anyway?

 

[TrashyMG]

( ... and yet, some people continue to doubt me! )

Yeah I still doubt you, what about the data plan for these smartphones you linked vs just having a regular phone.. in the long run these are a ton more expensive... I've had a smartphone which requires an expensive data plan ($35 a month) for about 4 years now.. added up that's $1680 that I spent over just having a regular cell phone.

We've been through the OS thing to death, but I don't want to just get a device that I can put an unofficial Linux on. I want a device where everyone uses Linux so I can release stuff using it and count on people actually running it

Exactly! I have no interest in developing for Android or iOS, it's has layers of crap I do not want to deal with. Having a regular Linux OS is an advantage over Android, it shouldn't be seen as a negative. It allows weekend developers like myself to get involved.

 

[Exophase]

In DREDD's defense I think he's actually referring to unlocked phones (ie, ones you don't need a data plan with, and don't even need to use as a phone at all if you'd like). I couldn't find this 480 AUD Galaxy S3 but I could find them starting around 539 USD. They're pretty cheap compared to what I'm used to seeing unlocked phones go for. On the other hand, I couldn't find any that were actually in stock.


The thing with the Android vs Linux nonsense is pretty simple - Pandora or whatever handheld you'd like to have needs Linux as standard out of the box to get devs to support Linux on it. But Android doesn't need this status because devs will support it by virtue of all the other Android devices. That's what you get supporting a much less popular OS.


But writing programs for Linux actually is an advantage because it cuts out a lot of the cruft you need to get stuff running in Android, and gives you access to more low level control and customization than would be possible otherwise.

 

[2bit]

We NEED ( to the point of me not buying a Pandora 2 if we do not have it in at least dual boot ) Linux ? why ? Because I can go buy Android anywhere . I can't just go buy a micro Linux computer / game every where .

 

[sswam]

I also prefer regular Linux versus Android or iOS. I prefer Pandora versus Samsung+iCP2. I'm just saying that combo is a serious competitor, as it can do almost all that the Pandora can do and quite a bit of extra useful stuff. I got those prices from a shopping comparison site (shopbot.com.au), not sure if they're right. I doubt if there is any mainstream phone which is anything like as expensive as the Pandora 1GHz. I forgot to mention the Pandora's battery so that would be an extra point for her there.


I am also suggesting that the Pandora 2 SHOULD consist of the user's stock Android phone of choice + iCP2 + case with peripheral interfaces. This would make it possible to upgrade much more cheaply, and use the phone and iCP2 components separately. Phone hardware companies are competing to produce the latest and greatest fastest swank-daddy phones, we cannot expect to compete with that. So we need to join with that. Nothing about the original Pandora really needs an upgrade, except for the SoC and RAM, maybe the screen.


It is not rocket science to port / run a regular Linux distro onto Android phone hardware. There would be more variety of Pandora hardware, which might be a good thing (witness the success of PC hardware versus Acorn, Amiga and such). We could port our existing Angstrom-based distro, or we could use a Debian, Ubuntu, slackware or whatever-based distro. libpnd should be bundled up with pandora scripts, and made as portable as possible so it could work with any distro.


There is another obvious advantage of using a phone, namely that you do not need also to buy a separate phone. It's more integrated, and this is an additional saving in total cost, supposing someone would want a phone and also a hacktasmic portable gaming device.


OPT could resell "approved" handsets with the Pandora kit, and people could experiment with using their own handsets.

 

[Exophase]

A phone plus iCP2 package isn't a Pandora 2, it's just a phone with iCP2 package. There's no point trying to make a product out of that. I'm not paying an extra charge for OPT to be a phone reseller. There's no way they could keep a custom Linux software stack straight between multiple phones; it'd be a challenge even for one. Getting a Linux distro working well on any given phone is not nearly as trivial as you make it sound. Even when the SoC vendor themselves release distros like Samsung has there's still a lot of work to be done to make it work well on some particular flavor of hardware. And while you think having a variety of Pandora hardware is a good thing I would personally prefer having something more fixed because it gives an easier target to develop for.. witness the success of consoles.


Something you have to consider is that OPT would never gain a special relationship with phone vendors, they would literally just be buying and selling them. So if your phone has problems you don't get any direct support with OPT. Consider the type of service we get right now with Pandora, even ones purchased years ago. Phones are not going to be nearly as well supported because the companies expect you to upgrade every other year.


The iCP2 swivel looks decent and all but I'd much rather have a real clamshell, and so would others. The thing you have to remember is that Pandora is and will continue to be a niche device. What that means is that you aren't going to get people at large weighing every pro and con vs a phone + iCP2 like you are - instead, all the Pandora really needs is one major thing that the other setup doesn't offer. So unless you think your setup offers NO disadvantage at all there's no point talking about phasing out what Pandora 2 could be for it when both can coexist.


It really seems to me that the $699 pricing strategy put forth by Craig is at the root of this idea. I reiterate, if Pandora 2 could be done for $499 this wouldn't even be an argument.

 

[2bit]

DREDD : I will NEVER buy myself a phone . Why ? The government ( usa ) catches more criminals ( 2011) through their Facebook or twitter and smartphone then having a insider wear a wire . Not that I'm a criminal I just don't like how the government ( and app makers ) can track you using what is SUPPOSEDLY your phone . I know I'm paranoid ... But still .

 

[Inferno's Reaper]

I'm not expert, but I'd say the biggest selling point to Linux over Android for the default OS is that it gives the developers a lot more freedom for a great many things, including interface design & hardware support. While Android's a popular OS for mobile devices, Linux has a certain edge in terms of development by the simple fact that it's been around longer & has a far more expansive development community.


As best as I can tell from looking into the history of the Pandora, a big contributor to the Pandora being so bloody expensive is the overwhelming amount of disasters that have befallen the company throughout the project. The only way I see the Pandora getting noticeably better & less expensive is if it can get a massive following overnight or the company designs & produces another, far cheaper & more specialized, device to get the company more notoriety & bring in some serious funds to use for development of the Pandora proper.

 

[klapse]

A phone plus iCP2 package isn't a Pandora 2, it's just a phone with iCP2 package....

(spot-on points!)

It really seems to me that the $699 pricing strategy put forth by Craig is at the root of this idea. I reiterate, if Pandora 2 could be done for $499 this wouldn't even be an argument.

Root of what idea? Why? What wouldn't be an argument?