Closer To The Final Replacement Of Stick


grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 01:31 AM said:
Very nice work radek. I actually just finished putting a gamecube dpad and pcb in my gp2x. It works excellent, but of course diagonals only work on most programs, but not all. Im interested in your logic circuit. Its nice to see youve progressed so far with it.

Have you drilled anything yet? :)

saboteur posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:42 AM said:
Once again RADEK - excellent work. That's a nice tidy looking board you've put together.

Any Idea on a project completion date ?? This stock stick is just ruining my GP2X which is mainly reduced to playing music and video :)

I was expecting to have it ready a week ago. But one issue has showed and I had to redesign the PCB. Now it's very close to be perfect (within 1mm :) ) so I could say "soon" but I never know until I will have ready unit in my hands.

saboteur posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:42 AM said:
I'm a 'thick fingered bodger' myself so am unable to help with this unless u need financial support, in which case I can help.

cheers.

Thanks but I it's not needed. I have everything to be able to continue this work.
 
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grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 03:09 PM said:
Radek posted on Apr 10 2006 at 08:18 AM said:
Have you drilled anything yet? :)

Yes, its in and working.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=379333
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=379736
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=379826

It works excellent without dedicated diagonals, but some things (like gngeo) are expecting 8 specifics..
Ive been playing the hell out of Gnuboy and DrMDx though :D

Was too preoccupied to spot that... I see you removed the whole stock stick altogether. So you gone much more hardcore than I. :)

My idea was to preserve it partially to be able use its pins and base for solderless connecting and firm mounting of the dpad.

You should not remove stick's pins imho, it actually will make connecting my actual converter harder but not impossible of course.

And what about center push? Can the dpad what are you using register it or can it have four switches turned on? I ask because if you don't need center push and don't mind extra cables then my older 3 chip design will do fine.

So congratulations and tell me what kind of converter would suit you best.
 
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saboteur posted on Apr 10 2006 at 04:01 PM said:
So are u taking orders yet ?? if so I want one.

Cheers

I could provide you with my older (the 3 chips) converter long time ago. If you want one then just tell me.
(but most people told me that they want a more complete solution)

I can send you pdf file with simple instruction for it so you will able make more educated choice.
 
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Radek, the old stick was easy to remove with a little desoldering braid and flux. My setup works and feels exactly like a gameboy, so no you can not push all four buttons at once. I plan on adding a seperate button for the center push (like on the Ngage QD, how they made it seperate). What would you suggest for me, since i only need logic for diagonals?
 
grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 06:31 PM said:
Radek, the old stick was easy to remove with a little desoldering braid and flux. My setup works and feels exactly like a gameboy, so no you can not push all four buttons at once. I plan on adding a seperate button for the center push (like on the Ngage QD, how they made it seperate). What would you suggest for me, since i only need logic for diagonals?

To compute diagonals is quite easy - to filter out ordinals of them is harder. Anyway it looks like the former (not the 4067 based) will be sufficient for you. That's is especially for that you removed stick's pins (solderless/wireless connection is main feature of my new design) and you are going to implement center push as another button.

I have a small instruction what I made for my converter:
info8gf.png


Look and then decide. I can make unit for you within a day/two where I yet have to finish converter with the 4067 (and its extra features will not be that usefull with your choice of mod)
 
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Yeah, i'll take one of the former setups from you when you have time. It will save me the trouble of having to sort out ICs and such.
To be honest im in no hurry, since most of the things im playing work ok as it is. I dont think its right to request that devs add support for 4-way, since its not standard.
 
Radek, I noticed in the "8-way" thread that ED is interested in stocking or offering modded consoles if they are viable.

In that interest, I would suggest (if you are not doing so already) checking with him on design.

If it is offered as a service, or an option when buying, I think many would be quite interested, I surely would.

To the point: I think you should investigate a design where the original stick is desoldered and a new PCB that will connect to the original holes is soldered in its place.

The one PCB solution could have a plastic bit that the pins go through to hold them off the board and parallel to the Mainboard.

The SMC Chip could go on the underside and the contacts could be on the top, I think structurally for the strongest possible way to go the chip should be outside the "circle" of pins, maybe up toward the L button, that way a "center push" button could go on the front side of the replacement PCB away from the back mounted SMC chip.

I don't mean to say that your ways of connecting the mod are bad, I just would be much happier with a nice solid mod that included complete removal of the crappy stick and a very tight and well soldered connection using pins to connect to the GP2X.

I just thought of the possibility that the pins could be in the way of the contacts, maybe only the pins that won't be in the way could be pins, and the rest good-quality wire that connects closer to the Chip on the replacement PCB.

Brilliant work so far, I believe if the suggestions I made could be implemented, it might prove to be even cheaper than the current stick and GPH could consider using it as a viable option.

HA! I meant that the stores could stock modded ones and offer the option and service to fix the damn problem.

I would LOVE to see a nice replacement that looked like a miniature Genesis/MegaDrive pad, THE coolest thing to play emus with, plus it is already black.

The hole could then be round unlike grahf's (admittedly gorgeous) mod and the only case mods would be two quick holes with a Mill (one for the D-pad, and one a bit higher for the "center" switch)

I love the brilliant progress.
 
grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 08:47 PM said:
Yeah, i'll take one of the former setups from you when you have time. It will save me the trouble of having to sort out ICs and such.
To be honest im in no hurry, since most of the things im playing work ok as it is. I dont think its right to request that devs add support for 4-way, since its not standard.

OK. So I will make two/three units as I have some those DIP14 chips to utilize. :)

These will be like a "first edition". :)

For using a software for that task... why not but it should be done at the system level, not an aplication level.
 
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Radek posted on Apr 10 2006 at 03:21 PM said:
For using a software for that task... why not but it should be done at the system level, not an aplication level.
My thoughts exactly. Keep me updated.

And Nubie, thanks for the compliment. I'll admit it looks a little rough around the edges up close though :D Mine is not actually a hole, its a "+" cut into the case, it just happens to fit within the boundaries of the original raised circular portion of the case. Using an Ngage QD or other circular pad would be much easier, since then it would just need a perfect hole to be cut. I just really like the nintendo style dpad, and i was attracted by the gamecube PCB because its pre-made and perfect.
 
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nubie posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
Radek at I noticed in the "8-way" thread that ED is interested in stocking or offering modded consoles if they are viable.

In that interest, I would suggest (if you are not doing so already) checking with him on design.

Why not... we had small discussion about my converter (for some other purpose :) ) however there weren't talks about offering anything yet.

nubie posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
If it is offered as a service, or an option when buying, I think many would be quite interested, I surely would.

To the point: I think you should investigate a design where the original stick is desoldered and a new PCB that will connect to the original holes is soldered in its place.

The one PCB solution could have a plastic bit that the pins go through to hold them off the board and parallel to the Mainboard.

I was considering everything including PLD chips and what you are saying. My dpad is simple yet effective adaptation of QD. It does support center push logicaly via push all buttons. It's 4 piece element (plastic plug, a shim, small PCB and QD dpad) and it fits firmly in the bottom part of the stick's socket.

nubie posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
The SMC Chip could go on the underside and the contacts could be on the top, I think structurally for the strongest possible way to go the chip should be outside the "circle" of pins, maybe up toward the L button, that way a "center push" button could go on the front side of the replacement PCB away from the back mounted SMC chip.

I don't mean to say that your ways of connecting the mod are bad, I just would be much happier with a nice solid mod that included complete removal of the crappy stick and a very tight and well soldered connection using pins to connect to the GP2X.

My first goal was to make an universal logic converter. Because of it had to be fiited at backside of the GP2x's mainboard. Then ribbon cable with 5 wires to the dpad at other side isn't big deal imho.

The second goal was to make it solderless and easy to connect as possible.
(The converter is secured not only by wiretaps but also by two existing mounting columns in the GP2x's case. Unless someone would be throwing GP2x it will not move or unconnect easily.)

The third goal was to minimize costs by not resorting to things like double sided PCBs, SMD chips or µC.

The fourth was to make it work being powered directly to the batteries. It's an issue because of two AA NiMH will be giving only 2.2-2.4V and signals on the GP2x's mainboard are at ~3.2V.
(the chips what I'm using have great voltage tolerance so no extra V booster or connecting to the one on the GP2x's mainboard is needed)

These are my constrains for this project. I have to admit I'm prepared for using some other things than the 4067 chip (just in a case) thought. But really, really don't want even it would make the PCB design trivial.

nubie posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
I just thought of the possibility that the pins could be in the way of the contacts, maybe only the pins that won't be in the way could be pins, and the rest good-quality wire that connects closer to the Chip on the replacement PCB.

Brilliant work so far, I believe if the suggestions I made could be implemented, it might prove to be even cheaper than the current stick and GPH could consider using it as a viable option.

HA! I meant that the stores could stock modded ones and offer the option and service to fix the damn problem.

I would LOVE to see a nice replacement that looked like a miniature Genesis/MegaDrive pad, THE coolest thing to play emus with, plus it is already black.

The hole could then be round unlike grahf's (admittedly gorgeous) mod and the only case mods would be two quick holes with a Mill (one for the D-pad, and one a bit higher for the "center" switch)

Making

I love the brilliant progress.

It's just decent imho not brillant but thanks for your words. They are very encouraging.

grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:41 PM said:
Radek posted on Apr 10 2006 at 03:21 PM said:
For using a software for that task... why not but it should be done at the system level, not an aplication level.
My thoughts exactly. Keep me updated.

And Nubie, thanks for the compliment. I'll admit it looks a little rough around the edges up close though :D Mine is not actually a hole, its a "+" cut into the case, it just happens to fit within the boundaries of the original raised circular portion of the case. Using an Ngage QD or other circular pad would be much easier, since then it would just need a perfect hole to be cut. I just really like the nintendo style dpad, and i was attracted by the gamecube PCB because its pre-made and perfect.

How do you drill it with so good accuracy (looking at the pictures)? You made a cross like shape where I made just a bigger circle. My task was easier I think as I had only to put triangle shaped chisel and rotate it until the hole was big enough.

I'm impressed by your drilling as I could not make anything similiar by myself.

And the QD dpad is indeed pretty easy to work with as it has contact and springs already built in.
 
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Great work Radek - you've got precisely the right constraints on your design to ensure quality. I can't wait to see the finished product.
 
I used a dremel with a cutoff wheel to get the overall shape, and used a razor to trim it out. Its not as nice as it looks in person, but i could easily clean it up more if i wanted to. It was very time consuming, but i didnt care since i was making it for myself. If i was making one for anyone else, i would have used a round pad like the QD. I used to own an N-gage QD, and i thought that pad was very nice.
 
grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
I used a dremel with a cutoff wheel to get the overall shape, and used a razor to trim it out. Its not as nice as it looks in person, but i could easily clean it up more if i wanted to. It was very time consuming, but i didnt care since i was making it for myself. If i was making one for anyone else, i would have used a round pad like the QD. I used to own an N-gage QD, and i thought that pad was very nice.



Wouldn't we have to use round pads if we were selling them? Nintendo has a patent on that shape so I guess they could sue anyone selling mods or kits using that cross design.
 
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I found this at lik-sang:

crosspad0bh.jpg


(It's a replacement PSP D-Pad)

It guess as long as the d-pad's top is not shaped like a "+" you're ok ...
 
DaveC posted on Apr 10 2006 at 10:39 PM said:
grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
I used a dremel with a cutoff wheel to get the overall shape, and used a razor to trim it out. Its not as nice as it looks in person, but i could easily clean it up more if i wanted to. It was very time consuming, but i didnt care since i was making it for myself. If i was making one for anyone else, i would have used a round pad like the QD. I used to own an N-gage QD, and i thought that pad was very nice.



Wouldn't we have to use round pads if we were selling them? Nintendo has a patent on that shape so I guess they could sue anyone selling mods or kits using that cross design.
Doesn't Dreamcast have a cross shaped design for it's D-pad?

Playstation kind of does too.

Maybe they payed for the right to use that design or something though...
 
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DaveC posted on Apr 11 2006 at 04:39 AM said:
grahf posted on Apr 10 2006 at 09:10 PM said:
I used a dremel with a cutoff wheel to get the overall shape, and used a razor to trim it out. Its not as nice as it looks in person, but i could easily clean it up more if i wanted to. It was very time consuming, but i didnt care since i was making it for myself. If i was making one for anyone else, i would have used a round pad like the QD. I used to own an N-gage QD, and i thought that pad was very nice.

Wouldn't we have to use round pads if we were selling them? Nintendo has a patent on that shape so I guess they could sue anyone selling mods or kits using that cross design.

But could they sue if we were using dpads manufactured by someone else (even by them)? I mean the ones being sold as servicable parts?

I think not but Nintendo wasn't exactly polite in the past so... you will never know.

That is really (un)funny - some people must have such issues with theirs very low scale projects because there is one Nintendo's patent.
 
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