Zx Speccy Vs. C64!

[e_b]

both formats had good games, personally I thought the C64 was miles better...ok it didn't have the resolution of the Speccy - but it could handle colours & sound 100% better!

Also because of this we had some truely great titles inc. Summer games, Impossible mission, Beyond forbiden forest...along with some titles with absloutly amazing music like Rambo, Thing on a spring and Paralax!

Speccy had a great 'isometric' line up (Alien 8 etc) and of course Skool daze, jet pack & atic attack were brilliant!

But overall you'd have to say they graphics were equally 'ros & cons' on both formats...you could argue either way...but sound is 100% C64, hence the best.

I remember seeing ghostbusters side by side...now that was funny! :lol:

 

[Rik]

Only one Atari800 user so far? I have to throw in an argument of mine too, Atari800 was the best 8bit!

Yes, there were many simple games, but there were also many great ones. The hardware was maybe not as good as that of the C64 and surely not as that of the Amstrad, but skillful programmers made wonderful use of it many times anyway.
I have never had the ZX Spectrum, though I saw it in action a few times and the thing that I didnt like about it (besides the common color change of sprites when crossing colored background) was that a large number of games had unstable speed, i.e. when there was nothing happening, they were fast, and when there were more object on the screen, they would get extremely slow. Thats a, aspect I then saw again only on the PC

Recently I bought a C64 and played some of the games that I knew from the Atari800 and even though I kept hearing that the C64 was much better than the Atari800, in my opinion many Atari800 versions look better and sound better. However, nostalgy might be playing a part in that too

Once again, cheers to the Atari800XE!

Oh and to recommend some titles, be sure to try Draconus (cool music and a great game too), International Karate, Zorro, Boulder Dash, Jet Set Willy (ooh the music!), Bruce Lee....

​

I'm an Atari 800XL user too. I had so many great games for that machine *wipes a tear* And I've had so many of the machines too. I don't have any anymore tho, and rely on emulation. I had my big box of discs stolen you see. I've downloaded probably every single ATR off the net but still SO many great games I'll probably never find ever again. >.<

My auntie had a ZX81 which was also a fun machine. I can't remember the games we played on it.

Also if you have fond memories of a game, you might check out the Atari ST versions. Usually the same gameplay but better gfx/sound. Deflektor for one I remember someone mentioning. Ikari Warriors too. Chubby Gristle was on all three I believe, the ST version was exactly the same as the 8bit ones, just with better gfx as far as I know.

 

[psj3809]

Well i think your views on the Atari 800 vs other machines are slightly biased ! In all my years i've always heard C64 vs Speccy arguments and maybe Amstrad but never Atari 800 in the same breath.

I have about 30 Atari 800 games on my GP32 but most of them pale in comparison to the Speccy or C64.

e_b, i wouldnt say the C64 was miles better. Granted Ghostbusters was by far the better game on the C64, the Speccy version was terrible and yes Impossible Mission was another classic. I liked the speccy version of Rambo but the C64 version was better.

But have you tried Bombjack on the C64 ? Terrible. The game is sooo playable on the Speccy but rubbish on the C64

The isometric games, eg Alien 8 , KnightLore and many others were huge though and rated as some of the best games ever during that era.

Graphics were more defined on the Speccy but less colourful, C64 was more colourful but more blocky. Sound the C64 won but to me the games are all about playability and still are.

Just thought of another classic game for newbies...

Chuckie Egg !

This to me is what gaming and retro gaming is all about. Graphics are simple as anything, amusing sounds, but you just want to keep playing this game. Such a simple idea, collect the eggs to get to the next level but sooooo playable.

This game doesnt have a kempston feature i dont think so redefine the keys and use your GP32 control pad to select the directions etc.

You say the C64 was 'miles better' but why ? Graphics and sound dont make a game alone. If that was the case every single Playstation II game would be brilliant.

Its all about playability. Thats why people still think Pong, Space Invaders and Pacman are some of the best games of all time. Terrible simple graphics, not many colours, no fancy tunes or that but just great playable games.

 

[e_b]

there's 100's a great playable games with great graphics on the C64

Sanxion & Uridium are 2 great shooters...but as said 1942, bombjack were pants..but why?

Reason was that the programers were trying to RECREATE a game - rather than WRITE a game.

When games were written for the C64 it stood out about the poor arcade ports.

 

[LeeT]

I have to say that technically the Atari 800 WAS better than the C64 - It just wasn't as successful (especially in Europe). Its the old VHS vs Betmax (Betmax was tech better than VHS but who won?!) addage.

Plus the Atari didn't get a lot of support from UK software houses, though a lot of the American companies certainly released Atari versions, especially early on in its life.

Elektra Glide is pants on the C64, whilst the Atari version is so nice!

(I'm a C64 owner by the way!).

 

[psj3809]

Please put down a list of quality Atari 800 games as i will like to have a look at these. Like LeeT says the Atari 800 wasnt huge in the UK during those years, i actually like the games i've played so far, the simple arcade ports with chunky graphics and simple gameplay as i like some of these very early games from the early 80's.

I suppose with many C64 and Speccy games the problems were down to the programmers. Lightforce on the Speccy was a great colourful game with no colour clash, how come other programmers couldnt do that ? Glider Rider and Bionic Commando to name but two had great 128k tunes, how come other 128k games didnt have this ?

The best version of 1942 i've seen is for the PC Engine, the Speccy version is pretty poor as is the C64. Ghost n Goblins the same, the Speccy has more detailed graphics but is hard as anything, the C64 has more colour but gameplay doesnt seem as great.

I really dont want to turn this into a C64 vs Speccy argument again. We've heard everything about that and i'm sure most of us wont change our minds.

Just great trying out different games though. I remember one C64 game when i went round my mates house years and years ago to see, dont know the name but while you loaded it up you had a Pacman style game to play whilst the main game loaded. Amazing back then.

Ghostbusters was brilliant on the C64 , looking at the game now i think its boring as hell but because of all the hoopla over the film etc it was brilliant back then

 

[Han]

From pics of Speccy games the graphics seemed worse than the C64 too. Speccy games seemed to not be able to put more than 2 colors on screen at once in one area where the C64 did 16 at once.

​

The Spectrum could handle 16 colours on screen, but with the limitation of 2 colours per 8x8 pixel square. Say hello to Mr Colour Clash . The Spectrum was my fist computer, so I got a ton of nostalgic memories about it.

And two other brilliant Spectrum games were "Lords of Midnight" and "Domdarks Revenge". They are a bit hard to play on the GP32, too many buttons used. It would be great if someone would care to convert these games to the GP32. There are Pc conversions of the games, and the source is available. Maybe a port to the Gp32 would be possible or maybe it just wouldn't work well due to the many buttons.

Check out this link to the PC versions:

http://www.icemark.com/downloads/index.html#winlom99

 

[BaDToaD]

I'm also in the US. I was an Atari 800 user, the true BEST 8bit computer ever. But don't write off the Speccy, actually there's some really good graphics in many of its games. Very detailed, and sometimes they make really good use of the color limitations. Try some of the games people mentioned in fzx, they're really pretty good. Jetpac alone is good fun.

The worst part is the sound. It's really bad. It's basically like the Apple II. But it's better than nothing.

​

OH come on !! The best 8 bit computer out there was easily either the Speccy or the C64 which sold the most computers in the world.

The Atari 800 isnt bad, i've tried the emulator on the GP32 but the games are very very simple.

​

The Atari was simply the best 8bit computer ever devised. It's sound was ok. Somewhere between the speccy and the C64 but graphically it was streets ahead of the c64 apart from the sprites. I had demos on the Atari 8bit that were better than the early Amiga demos. Anyone remember the robot and spaceship demo?

Archer Mclean once referred to the Atari as the Rolls Royce of 8bit computers. Compare Dropzone on the c64 with the Atari version. The c64 drops frames when the going get's tough the Atari version doesn't. Jeff Minter also loved the Atari.

If you ask me which 8 bit computer was the most fun I'd say the c64. It was my platform of choice and the only platform I ever designed grahpics for at a professional level but ask me which 8bit was the best then it had to be the Atari.

Elite would have rocked on the Atari.

I had digitised 128 colour photos on my Atari. OK the were pretty chunky but they were 128 colour and they were awesome for their day.

Checkout the Atari versions of:

Ballblazer (Ballblaster)

Rescue on fractallus. (Behind Jaggi Lines)

Koronis Rift

Dropzone

Each of these was way better than the c64 version.

Try to get hold of the awesome Last Starfighter which was never released. It rocks and it was written in 1984.

One final point. The Atari was designed by the team who went on to design the Amiga. Need I say more.

 

[psj3809]

I always wanted to get into those two games but never really could. Did look very impressive though and were brilliant adventure titles on the Speccy.

I do miss the days of Crash though. Retro Gamer i love getting and that brings back some memories of those days, the last issue when they did a small supplement of Your Sinclair was brilliant.

I remember in the mid 90's when i found out about emulation and then damn i couldnt believe you could get a speccy cd with tons of games on it ! Snapped that up right away.

Now being able to play Speccy games on either a Pocket PC or a GP32 is brilliant.

One of my favourite games was Football of the Year, played that tons. Silly simple arcade bit where you just kicked penalties or tried to score but the whole 'management' behind it and the fun roulette type gambling made it a brilliant game. Still play that a fair bit.

Being into american football i played Headcoach to death. When i first got my Speccy Football Manager was of course amazing but its so funny now to look back at those 'highlights'.

Ahhh those were the days !

 

[psj3809]

The Atari was simply the best 8bit computer ever devised.

Well i presume this must be an american thing. In the UK the Atari 800 was quite rare compared to the whole range of other computers out at the time and it wasnt until the Atari ST until the Atari name really hit it off again.

I'll try some of these games for sure but i thought Commodore ruled the roost in the US of A ?

Never had tried any MSX stuff until i found the emulators for this for the GP32 and Pocket PC. Some very good konami stuff on that

 

[Hwrd]

I have a North American Speccy: the Timex 2068. Never so much as plugged it in though, since I was given it during the ST/Amiga days when people gave away their older PC' s and consoles for nothing (no eBAY, YAY!), and I had absolutely no software for the 2068.

I was a big fan of the Atari 800 in the pre-crash days, but couldn't afford a computer until I got an 520ST (on launch too!). To put perspective on what the Atari 800 represented at it's time, if the Apple II compares to a Pentium IV, then the Atari 800 compares to a Pentium IV with a Radeon or GeForce card installed.

For the age difference between the 800 and the C64 (and Speccy), it *should* have been vastly inferior hardware-wise, but it wasn't. It's more like if the Atari 800 compares to a Radeon 9800Pro, the C64 compares to a Radeon X700XT (cost reduced from the older model, generally comparable though). Inferior marketing kept the old Atari 8-bits down.

If I recall correctly, the earlier C64 ports were inferior to the 800 ports, but that changed over time to the point where the 800 didn't get any more ports. (the first example I saw of a superior C64 port was POGO JOE).

The nicest thing about C64 emulation nowadays for me is that it has software from the Apple II days, it's own heyday, and the ST/Amiga/Megadrive days. That's a pretty incredible range of software.


PS: I've had PC emulators for all these consoles for years, but didn't really bother much. The GP32 makes them so much more fun being able to run them without waiting to boot Windows/Linux, and whilst on the toilet!.

PPS: Too bad the GP32 isn't as popular in North America, as it would be nice to see emulators of the Apple II, TI-99/4a, Intellivision, and O2...

PPS: Atari800XE? Never was such a model number!!! {smiley}

 

[dgnadt]

I too was an Atari 800 owner. I later had both the C64 and 800 but the 800 got more of my attention. The sound on the C64 was by far the better of the two, but I was never impressed with the graphics capabilities of the C64 at all. I do have to say that the C64 version of Congo Bongo was WAY better than the crappy port the Atari 800 got.

Both were capable machines but the Atari 800, when making proper use of DLIs and custom sprite engines had better looking games. Lazy programmers would just use the built in PM graphics and no DLI tricks so the games looked really bland. Unfortunately for us some of the really cool games still don't look right on the GP32 (Space Harrier is a good example) because the emulation isn't 100% speed and still has trouble emulating some of the tricks used by the better programmers so the games and demos don't work or don't look right on the GP32.

 

[johncross85]

What's interesting is that the C64 vs Speccy argument is basically the same now as it was in the 80's... The C64 had more colour and better sound (the C64 owners argument for superiority) but the Speccy's games generally had more playability (the speccy owners argument for superiority).

What's excellent about emulation is that we can now try a game on each of the systems (C64/Speccy/Atari800) and then put the best version of each on our SMCs. Then put the SMC in our GP32s. Then put our GP32s in our pocket and walk around with a smug grin because we are carrying around the absolute best games that the 8bits had to offer and we can play them wherever and whenever we want!

All that said, the Speccy was still the best because it was the only system that had a magazine with the slogan "Your Sinclair - It's crap but in a funky skillo sort of way".

J(ohn)

 

[johncross85]

Just remembered....

For any Americans that thought the Speccy never hit your shores, have a look at the Time TS2068:

http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/timex/timex.htm

J(ohn)

 

[psj3809]

Even though some of the arcade games which i love are far far better on systems such as the PC Engine i actually like playing the 'poor' version on either the C64 or Speccy.

To me its incredible they even tried to port Golden Axe to the Spectrum. Like i say many of these games are very simple and not great graphics compared to Megadrive/PC Engine versions but i really enjoy seeing the home computer versions of these games.

Rainbow Islands and Bubble Bobble were very good on the earlier platform. Out Run was just terrible though on the Speccy.

Space Harrier and Afterburner i thought was very good on it though, amazing how that game appeared on the Speccy when you think of the high spec the arcade machine had.

3d Starstrike on the Speccy was a great Star Wars clone as well. Obviously the vector graphics were easy to do on many of the home computers.

Like the other person said, its brilliant having all these emulated games on the GP32. I'm gonna check out more Atari 800 games, i love the Atari ST emulator (Even though i had an Amiga in the day) but i'll look more at the 800.

 

[psj3809]

All that said, the Speccy was still the best because it was the only system that had a magazine with the slogan "Your Sinclair - It's crap but in a funky skillo sort of way".

​

Did you see the special edition of Your Sinclair with one of the last issues of Retro Gamer mag ? Thought it was brilliant and really captured the whole look and feel of the original.

 

[BaDToaD]

The Atari was simply the best 8bit computer ever devised.

Well i presume this must be an american thing. In the UK the Atari 800 was quite rare compared to the whole range of other computers out at the time and it wasnt until the Atari ST until the Atari name really hit it off again.

​

Just in case you're not aware I'm from the UK.

I was a die hard speccy and c64 owner and worked in a shop selling home and business computers in the early 1980s. A friend bought an Atari 800XL and said he would bring it in to show us. Naturally we laughed at this suggestion but he brought it in anyway. We were gob smacked by the power of the system. 128 and 256 colour image captures. OK they were very chunky but from several feet away they were amazing. Demos that you wouldn't believe. I can remember seeing this huge (and I do mean huge half a screen tall and a third of a screen wide) green metallic robot walking towards you with it's arms and legs changing shade in the light. As it walked along a simple colour cycling road this strange metallic melody played. Bloody amazing stuff for 1983. There are a few demo screenshots here unfortunately i can't find the robot.

The following week we went to the Local Atari User Group meeting and were blown away by all the demos and games. I bought a 130XE the next payday and loved it. It never became my favorite computer because there was more software available for the c64 and Speccy but there were several games released for both systems where the Atari excelled. Especially in 3D. Ballblazer remains one of the best 2 player games ever written. It's ok in one player but 2 player on real hardware is amazing.
The same can be said of Rally speedway. Fantastic top down racing. Good fun in one player but Awesome in two player and far better on the Atari.

With better marketing the Atari would have wiped away the c64. I'm glad it didn't but it's a pity the Atari wasn't still being heavily developed on during the later days of the c64s reign. The Atari really died way before it's time. It would have been nice to see what the programmers could squeeze out of it had they really got to know it. Those that did really shone, Jeff Minter, Archer Mclean. There's an excellent Archer Mclean interview here it contains the following quote "What was your favorite part of "Dropzone," on a technical level?

Squeezing the hardware in the Atari 800 to its limits and making it better than anything else then available. What was more amazing to me was the challenge of making it work on the less capable Commodore 64. It was a real nightmare implementation, but I did it."

 

[psj3809]

Seems like its similar to the Betamax vs VHS story. Betamax was better but VHS went to the masses and so everyone got one.

In the UK it was a battle between the big 3 (Amstrad/Commodore/Spectrum) with perhaps the BBC and Atari fighting it out for 4th and 5th. Behind them Dragon and Oric.

 

[DaveC]

I'm also in the US. I was an Atari 800 user, the true BEST 8bit computer ever.   But don't write off the Speccy, actually there's some really good graphics in many of its games. Very detailed, and sometimes they make really good use of the color limitations. Try some of the games people mentioned in fzx, they're really pretty good. Jetpac alone is good fun.

The worst part is the sound. It's really bad. It's basically like the Apple II. But it's better than nothing.

​

OH come on !! The best 8 bit computer out there was easily either the Speccy or the C64 which sold the most computers in the world.

The Atari 800 isnt bad, i've tried the emulator on the GP32 but the games are very very simple.

​

The Atari was simply the best 8bit computer ever devised. It's sound was ok. Somewhere between the speccy and the C64 but graphically it was streets ahead of the c64 apart from the sprites. I had demos on the Atari 8bit that were better than the early Amiga demos. Anyone remember the robot and spaceship demo?

Archer Mclean once referred to the Atari as the Rolls Royce of 8bit computers. Compare Dropzone on the c64 with the Atari version. The c64 drops frames when the going get's tough the Atari version doesn't. Jeff Minter also loved the Atari.

If you ask me which 8 bit computer was the most fun I'd say the c64. It was my platform of choice and the only platform I ever designed grahpics for at a professional level but ask me which 8bit was the best then it had to be the Atari.

Elite would have rocked on the Atari.

I had digitised 128 colour photos on my Atari. OK the were pretty chunky but they were 128 colour and they were awesome for their day.

Checkout the Atari versions of:

Ballblazer (Ballblaster)

Rescue on fractallus. (Behind Jaggi Lines)

Koronis Rift

Dropzone

Each of these was way better than the c64 version.

Try to get hold of the awesome Last Starfighter which was never released. It rocks and it was written in 1984.

One final point. The Atari was designed by the team who went on to design the Amiga. Need I say more.

​

Basically Yes the A800 had better graphics than C64 due to the 256 color pallette. The sound wasn't great as it was basically a 4-channel sine wave tone generator.

The C64 had ok graphics with the same resolution as the Atari and better sprite hardware. But it only had a puny pallette of 16 colors. The sound is where it OWNED any 8-bit comp. It had all of those different waveform generators and envelopes etc, quite sophisticated for it's day.

So

A800 better gfx
C64 better sound

 

[Rik]

Just thought I'd list some of my fave 8bit home computer games. :3

I'm choosing from the Atari 800 range from my childhood but I'm sure most are avaliable on Spectrum / C64 in some form.

Kik-start - This is the finest side scrolling motorbike game ever made. Yeah way better than excite bike (imo). only had 10 tracks I think though - shame. You had to do different things to stay up on certain surfaces (ie. no wheelie-ing on some, slow down on others, and usual jump over holes / water etc). Very fun game I used to be able to ace most tracks without falling once.

Joust - Must admit I liked it for it's 2 player mode, which is probably not a priority in emulation as it was for me back then. Classic game tho.

Ghostbusters - The same game that's on every 8bit. I like it cos I like the movie and cartoon haha. The atari version had the best music (other versions had better sound hardware, but most versions seem to have the actual notes wrong which hurts my ears). This version had no idiotic drivers on the streets that bash into you for no reason.

Bruce Lee - Ah gotta love this game. I always had to get my brother to control the green sumo type guy and play co-operatively in order to complete the game. (He's supposed to be an enemy but we worked out this system to beat the game when we were v. young).

Boulder Dash - Well I think the Atari 800 was the actual original of this timeless game. You may prefer the nes one as it has cuter graphics and pretty much the same game play (identical levels too), but you can actually get a level editor for the atari one and create your own. There is actually a way of networking (up to EIGHT) Ataris together and playing a network game of this all those years ago! Unfortunately that version of the game was by another developer and it's quite poor in comparison but that's an interesting bit of info, no?

Kangaroo, Jumpman, Jumpman Jr, Miner 2049er - All pretty fun platform games.

Ball Blazer - Mode7 style "3d" graphics and smooth movement at a high framefrate. I like the intro music too.

Flying Ace - Simple blocky graphics, but a nice fun little game. One of the few games that scrolls right to left.

Outlaw / Howitzer - Not much different to the VCS version but fun as 2 player game. I v.losely based my last animation on Howitzer: Crazy Daisy :3

Breath of the Dragon - Strange platform-ISH game, quite addictive.

Hard Hat Mack - This would be so fun if it wasn't too hard. Graphics are a bit crappy too (grey only). But the speed and controlls are really good, it's just the bloody enemies are cheap!

Shamus II - Starts off just like Rick Dangerous! But unfortunately the game play changes completely shortly after. Still a pretty fun game, but coulda been better.

Jungle Hunt - Classic game.

Many more I used to like, but can't remember or can't be bothered to type any more.