Your Holy gaming Grail for Pandora 2..?


Not that Craigix seems to give a shit, but if Pandora 2(whenever it happens) is a vast departure and/or is android-centric, I will not be willing to support them with my meager funds, I won't buy it. If you want android, get a damn touchpad-thing or cellphone, that's what it's for! EvilDragon's idea of an upgraded/enhanced version of the current Pandora for Pandora 2 with Linux as the primary os and the option to maybe have android as an optional, secondary os, however, I would wholeheartedly endorse. I just hope that Craigix will at least be willing to listen to ED, and that ED will be able to talk some(ok, a lot) of sense into him... :unsure:
 
Mr_Loon said:
From a personal perspective I'd love to see Android running on the Pandora never mind the Pandora 2, however I would not like Android to be the default / official OS choice. My guess is that the vast majority of Pandora owners would feel the same way.
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Android already does run on the Pandora, it's just very rough around the edges from what I've been told, due to not a lot of community support, which I think is the most telling example of why Android as THE primary on the P2 is a risky move. Nothing saying that Android can't be /A/ primary OS, though, possibly even commercially necessary (I'm pretty sure "runs a full desktop environment, or easily install the familiar Android" would give a HUGE marketing boost). I think it'd be quite cool if the customer could pick one or the other at time of order, and if they want to switch they just need to download the appropriate package and reflash, but to willfully ignore the interests of the group that has followed faithfully for these many years feels like a slap in the face.
 
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onpon4 said:
Gruso said:
It would also feel a little... GPH.
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What's GPH? All I could find was "Greater Peace and Harmony", some organization, but that doesn't seem to make sense (it's a noun, and you're using "GPH" as an adjective).
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Gruso is using "GPH" as a noun. ;) It's short for GamePark Holdings - the folks who made the GP2X, GP2X Wiz, and Caanoo.
 
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Further context: The early GPH machines (GP32, GP2X F100, GP2X F200) were the spiritual predecessors to the Pandora. Despite 99% of software development coming from this very scene, GPH didn't really listen to the community and each subsequent machine had backwards compatibility issues, and/or inexplicable design changes.


The Pandora came into existence as the machine that would not make these mistakes. Here's to that philosophy continuing. :)
 
Gruso said:
No need to educate me on grammar :/ I'm aware of the rules and I break them as it pleases me.
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Confirmed! Moderator aware of rules, and breaks them as it pleases him.


:p
 
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Android as primary OS for noobs and gamers, once userbase is big enough I'm sure people will get multiple flavours of Linux running on it.


Google Marketplace on Pandora 2!
 
I will never be interested on an android based pandora... if i'dd be interested in that, i'dd buy the latest android phone, that would be more cutting edge and would cost less... and they keyboard would be almost useless on an android phone...


going android for a pandora2 would be useless... going out of your small niche would put the pandora2 in direct competition with phones, giving it not a single chance vs samsung nokia and other giand corporations...
 
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In summary, offering Pandora 2 with Android as sole operating system has these disadvantages:

  • you would be competing with companies with much higher resources for software and driver development who can support their devices better
  • you would be competing with newer, better and cheaper devices which are released all year (while you have trouble releasing one in four years)
  • you would lose compatibility with all existing Pandora (and GP32X/Ginge) programs
  • you would alienate a considerable portion of the community (including developers) who supported the project thus far


and these benefits:

  • more mature and user friendly OS (debatable)
  • access to a large pool of Android compatible applications including commercial games
  • other Android developers might be attracted to the device


Whereas offering Pandora 2 with a dual boot setup offers all the same benefits without any of the disadvantages. So I find it baffling that anyone would vehemently insist on Android as sole operating system, especially if the product is to be called "Open Pandora 2".


Craig wouldn't even have to support alternate OS development by himself if he hates it so much, I hope ED would be interested in doing that.


BTW: What about virtualization of android applications on linux, has there been any progress? I know Android uses a modified Linux kernel, does that make it technically impossible to run Android apps natively or would it be possible by implementing the necessary APIs? Or would it be possible to make the Pandora OS on base of the Android kernel and still keep compatibility with precompiled PNDs? This might be the best of both worlds (of course depending on the work necessary to make this possible),
 
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Lafazar said:
BTW: What about virtualization of android applications on linux, has there been any progress? I know Android uses a modified Linux kernel, does that make it technically impossible to run Android apps natively or would it be possible by implementing the necessary APIs?
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RIM developed an Android application layer for their phones which don't have a Linux kernel at all, so there's theoretically no reason it can't be done here as well, but I'm having a hard time finding any open source attempts at such a thing we could port to the Pandora.
 
Just make a poll: Android as default OS for "Pandora 2" Yes or No - quick and easy. ^^


I'm not against Android in general, I would accept every OS that pulls out the most of the Hardware, as effective and compatible as possible.
 
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how the hell did I miss this topic???


Criag, you are doing the right thing here... if the people want a solid linux port they will do it.. There's enough skill in the current fanbase to be able to do it, and backwards support for the P1.... There's ubuntu and debian ports for a lot of "android devices" that release just the kernel source and nothing else... and sometimes what the manufacturer releases is just a partial or incomplete source at that.... I know most of the people that want standard linux as opposed to android already know how to port it and do it correctly. Even if it wasn't the primary OS, the will is already there to find a way.


People who want android are generally linux noobs... there is something like 1% of the android community that really knows what they're doing, but at the scale of number of users, that 1% turns into 10s of thousands if not more. I'd estimate the skilled:unskilled ratio here is probally somewhere between 30-50% so that turns into a couple hundered skilled programers max, I feel that's being very generous. Think of all the experience you could potentially gain. Let alone customers and fans of the platform.. and as you identified... mainstream audiance


Since most of the people that want android on the parndora don't really have the skill to really do it or do it correctly themselves... as has already been seen... the ones in this community with the skill to fix it or do it right... flat out don't want it or are not interested... probally most of the same people objecting the move to android right now I'm sure. While I respect the reasoning... your voices would be the very tiny minority if you could ask the same question to a future community that has offical android support or even as the primary OS. Those voices aren't heard here yet because since the current pandora doesn't really have a good working port... they just don't simply care about the pandora.... so they're not here. Some of us are still kicking around though.


So Craig... I applaud your move, and think from the buisness perspective and for the future of this community you are making a very wise decision.


(has anyone noticed everytime this arguement comes up it's always the same people standing on each side of the fence on this)


EDIT: as a final thought.... what do you think would bring most people to your platform? Overall polish and user friendliness from the outside and finding a community with support for much more (if that was your thing).... or lack of polish, being mostly incompleted and heavily under development but conceptually perfect?


that's the question/problem I think craig is addressing... conceptual puritans please at least consider this when objecting
 
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(Before you read note that I haven't read this entire thread yet, I am just voicing my opinion, so if I say something stupid, don't hesitate to insult me ;) )


I don't like this talk of only Android, or only Angstrom, its a stupid idea since you could make everyone happy. There are two SD slots in the current Pandora, so I assume there will be two in the next, so why not have one SD dedicated to Android and the other dedicated to Angstrom, pretty simple, and worries about space would be simply quashed by the fact that SDXC will probably be standard by then. And if you don't like Android (or Angstrom), it should be simple to change it so you only have your OS of choice, and double the capacity for said OS. Pretty simple huh? No need for any monster debates if we have both supported officially out of the box... right?


TL;DR

https://www.youtube.com/embed/NuEIsqeRR1o?feature=oembed
"Why can't we have both?"
 
ANDROID said:
I know most of the people that want standard linux as opposed to android already know how to port it and do it correctly. Even if it wasn't the primary OS, the will is already there to find a way.
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I think you've missed (or misunderstood) a lot of the discussion here. No one is opposed to an Android port. Almost everyone is entirely in favor of an Android port at this point in time. What Craig has hinted at, however, is making hardware changes that would make a Pandora2 incompatible with software from the Pandora1, removing some of the features that made the Pandora the device it is today, and make getting Linux drivers more difficult and vehemently rejecting any suggestion that we can do both: make a P2 that can easily run Linux and be backwards compatible with the P1, and be able to run Android out of the box. Seriously, there's no need to wave the Android flag here, we're on your side, we want Android to run on it too. What we don't want is for all the hard work that has already gone into the Pandora to be rendered moot because Craig made decisions focused entirely on Android without any consideration for the group that has had his back from the start.

ANDROID said:
So Craig... I applaud your move, and think from the buisness perspective and for the future of this community you are making a very wise decision.
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Forcing your way into an oversaturated market against giants with far more resources at their disposal does not seem like a wise decision to me. Not without something to truly distinguish your device from others. Being able to run your choice of either Android or a full desktop OS would be one brilliant way to separate yourself from the giants that would squash you. Sadly, Craig has suggested he has no interest in pursuing this. A pure Android P2, marketed as such, will almost certainly fail to compete in the existing market.
 
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