Xgp, Xgp-mini Hardware Selection Polls

[Epicenter]

I recently contacted Gamepark with my suggestions for what I feel to be the best SoC (chipset) of choice, the Samsung S3C2460, as well as an 320x240 LCD or 640x480 LCD on the full XGP unit to match the XGP Mini, GP2X and meet aspect ratio demands of emulators, existing homebrew applications, ports from other systems (most notably PCs) and to ease development for both platforms. This is an excerpt of my recieved response:

Regarding the resolution of the LCD used in our product, XGPmini uses 320x240 (4:3) LCD and XGP uses 480x272(16:9) LCD. At this time we have no plans to change the resolution of the LCD used in our devices. However, since the development of the two devices isn’t finished, we may change the LCD of XGP if the demand for 4:3 type of LCD is huge. Installing D-pad instead of analog stick is being considered internally. Initially, we installed analog stick to motivate people to come up with innovative and creative game or other content, but since d-pad is more preferred and less expensive we are thinking of changing the analog stick to d-pad. Lastly, using Samsung's S3C2460 in XGP and XGPmini is being considered.

Thank you for your interests in our products and hope to hear back from you again.

In order to organize the schools of thought on these forums and make clear which is the most preferred selections for this machine, I am proposing a few different polls in this thread. For those unfamiliar with the issue of an SoC selection of MagicEyes VRENDER-3D vs. Samsung S3C2460, I refer you to a previous thread of mine (http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=30903), and here is a basic rundown of different features between the two ...

MagicEyes VRENDER-3D Specifications:
---
- ARM920T 200 MHz processor with 16/16KB data/instruction caches
- Suspected PowerVR RS "MBX Lite" 2D/3D Accelerator
- MPEG4 Hardware Decoding
- No JPEG Decoding support
- No Floating Point, Vector Processor or DSP
- 1.8v Power input

Samsung S3C2460 Specifications:
---
- ARM926EJ-S (920T code-compatible) at 266 MHz with 16K/16K cache
- ARM VFP9-S Floating Point/Vector Coprocessor with up to 273 Million Floating Point Operations/sec.
- PowerVR RS "MBX Lite" 2D/3D Accelerator
- 16-bit Fixed-Point DSP with support for memory access simultaneous to the ARM926/VFP9/MBX
- Realtime Hardware MPEG-4 decoding/encoding support
- Hardware JPEG decoding/encoding support
- 1.5v lower-power operation

 

[iignotus]

Oh my :wub:

 

[Godmil]

oh darn I picked the wrong processor... should be 100% going for samsung.

I have a feeling a dpad would go down much better with everyone.

 

[Captainbubby]

Finally. SOMETHING about the XGP! Any confirmed release date yet? I'm Loving it all the more with these possible changes

 

[Epicenter]

Finally. SOMETHING about the XGP! Any confirmed release date yet? I'm Loving it all the more with these possible changes

GP has not told me anything of a release date, since the machine is in the design phases still. I'm very happy with how open and receptive to new ideas GamePark is being however; it seems that their new machines will be designed to meet what this community actually wants, with the combined experience of developers and combined desires of many, many users. This sort of input and openness in the design process is sorely lacking from the development/release process of the GP2X, which was hidden from the public and just released as matter-of-fact bulletins with no community input.

I'm quite optimistic about the prospect of these new machines. An excellent development platform on the horizon ...

 

[iignotus]

the development/release process of the GP2X, which was hidden from the public and just released as matter-of-fact bulletins with no community input.

What changes did you try to convince GPH to make in the summer of last year that they didn't listen to?

 

[Epicenter]

I wasn't around back then so I could not make any recommendations. But a lot of people did-- although, given the information from GPH was so spotty it was hard to make suggestions. e.g. NOTHING was known about the 940T's limitations or 2D blitter's simplicity, that it's more of a fast memory copier than it is a real accelerator.

 

[stormyandcold]

options 2/3/2 all the way.

For our needs 640x480 is much better than widescreen. A lot more games would benefit from this resolution than 16:9. The screen alone (provided it's good quality enough) would be a major selling point.

Forget analogue stick, waste of money for this generation of handhelds and even the psp's implementation isnt perfect.

Even with the advent of ps emulation, most games play perfectly well with a d-pad. Not interested in having both either. Give us usb host so further down the line we can use what we want.

I'm sure it'd need some redesigning to accomadate a 4:3 screen but get it right first time and everyone'll be happy

oh...and see if 128mb of memory is possible...

 

[Epicenter]

Both S3C2460 and VRender-3D will support 128MB of RAM, and USB Host capability.

 

[Ravnos]

Analog AND d-pad would be preferred in the full-size XGP. Too bad there's no option for it, so I just said d-pad there. Also, 640x480 would be nice but if it will drive up the cost then no way. 320x240 may not be as good but it is "good enough".

 

[moz]

im waiting to see what davec has to say

 

[Julius]

So... besides beeing vapourware and all

What is the cost difference between the magiceyes and the samsung chipset?

 

[Ravnos]

im waiting to see what davec has to say

It will probably go something like this:

-analog sucks
-widescreen sucks
-the mini is too small
-it's dividing the scene
-3D accelerators are unnecessary

etc. etc. etc.

 

[Epicenter]

I'm sure we'll hear the No-3D argument from DaveC. The reason for a 2D/3D accelerator that is most convincing in my opinion is that it will allow unbelievable graphical capability. While the GP2X is very powerful with its main CPU and the 2D blitter, you can't draw a few thousand of sprites to the screen per second and expect good framerate. With a dedicated GPU, especially one as powerful as the PowerVR MBX Lite, you could. It'll also give a big kick to 2D emulators with complex graphic subsystems like SNES emulation (think trasparencies, scaling and rotation!) .. same for the GBA.

And of course, as I said, PS1 emulation gets an improvement from the 3D capabilities. After speaking to Zodttd, the S3C2460 seems the better choice for that-- since the FPU/Vector processor could give dramatic acceleration to the geometric transform engine.

 

[OMars]

Which processor is cheaper? :huh:

 

[JaqMs]

640x480 would be way too expensive. I went with the widescreen because I am not crazy about making sure the aspect ratio with emulators is exact. AND I don't care if the screen is stretched. Plus, the widescreen is good for reading text files, viewing websites (via XGP's wifi), and the unlikely DOSBox port.

 

[Orkie]

I was thinking of an X server when I voted 640*480. If I could get anything like that running on the XGP (through whatever Linux will eventually be ported to it if Gamepark decide not to supply one) with a 640*480 screen, it would look really nice.

 

[iignotus]

VGA resolution (640x480) is the next step up for portable gaming consoles. It is good, it is an improvement, and it is necessary for certain things. The question is not if a VGA screen would be good in a handheld, but if now is the time to do so.

 

[Yono]

640x480 would be way too expensive. I went with the widescreen because I am not crazy about making sure the aspect ratio with emulators is exact. AND I don't care if the screen is stretched. Plus, the widescreen is good for reading text files, viewing websites (via XGP's wifi), and the unlikely DOSBox port.

640x480 would be too expensive NOW. Don't pretend you know how much it would cost at time of production.

 

[Alex.]

I don't see it going down in price in the next year or so though.

- Alex