Windows XP and Windows 7 on ARM.

[Jet]

Hello everyone!
Some times ago I heard about ports of Windows on ARM processor. Full Wersion WinXP worked on ARM!
Is it true? Can pandora working with WinXP?

And when i can by this device? I live in Russia.

 

[lulzfish]

No, Windows and Windows programs will not work on Pandora.
Neither will Mac OS or applications.
edit: There will never be compatibility between "Windows" and the Pandora because Windows is designed around the x86 and x86_64 architectures, whereas Pandora is ARM. There is no native compatibility. It will not happen.

The Pandora will be ready in a few months, please see the main site http://www.openpandora.org for ordering details.
There's a chance you can still get a first batch, but I recommend waiting for the 2nd batch so you can order with a credit card.

 

[hobbyman II]

Pandora is an open source console that works with modern, compact, stable, fast operating systems

it runs Linux, Free BSD ,Android and any other open source OS that can be compiled for ARM

Windows is not open source, not compiled for ARM, not modern, not compact, not stable and not fast

there will NEVER be a windows port for Pandora, even if you made one through decompiling XP for eg, then Microsoft would sue you out of existence.

even if you could convince MS to port some de-bloated XP version to Pandora, what would you do for apps?, EVERY program that runs under windows is written for x86 instruction set cpus, the Pandora is ARM, so EVERY app (yes. including notepad and minesweeper) would have to be re-written and compiled for the Pandora, do you think thats going to happen?

and CE is not windows in any sense you may be thinking of.

forget it, why do you want to pay for applications and dev software when you can get a whole world of software for free?

Mods: could you lock and sticky this thread at the top to prevent more posts like this? they get annoying after a while

newb: gee an OPEN SOURCE console......I wonder if it will run WINDOWS....

I guess they don`t see the irony....do they?

 

[Radon]

Before you start bashing Jet make sure you are right about the facts.

Actually there were indeed some rumors if there might be an ARM port of Windows 7.
It seems the CEO of ARM made some comment pointing in that direction. As far as I can tell (from 2 minutes with google) it's all just speculations though.

The rest remains correct however. Even if there was an ARM port of Windows 7 (for ARM netbooks) it would not be an option for the Pandora.

 

[CyruzDraxs]

I recently heard a Microsoft rep mention Windows 7 running on ARM processors, however; he was mentioning it as "a possibility that's being look at" and I don't really think he was directly associated with the core OS programming team. At the very least though they are considering it. Something has got them interested enough to consider looking into it, which takes a lot for Microsoft.

 

[Jet]

I heard this on mail news.
So... Thanks!
You are right! I am using Windows Vista and forged that Linux soft is free.
I like my operation system, but now i remember that I HATE X86 PLATFORM!

 

[Gary13579]

You're all way to quick to judge. Saying stuff like "Pandora will never run Windows" is idiotic.

QEMU, bochs, etc can all emulate the x86 CPU, and would allow installation of Windows. Even the PSP has a bochs port, which runs Windows 95 on a 333 MHz CPU. That's not to mention the people that already have Windows CE running on BeagleBoard.

Yes, it will be useless, but it can be done.

 

[WizardStan]

Yes, it will be useless, but it can be done.

Joe Everman won't care about "yes with a but" answers. Just say "no" and avoid the explanation.

 

[Bronek]

No, Windows and Windows programs will not work on Pandora.
Neither will Mac OS or applications.

Of course, you are absolutely correct on this one. Unless Microsoft ports Windows 7 (or Apple ports OSX etc.) to Pandora themselves, and I am not aware of anything preventing them from doing so. Except for the lack of business sense.

While we are on OSes ports, I am quite keen to see OpenBSD running on Pandora, but as I understand there is already port to ARM. Thus the situation is much better in this department.

edit: There will never be compatibility between "Windows" and the Pandora because Windows is designed around the x86 and x86_64 architectures, whereas Pandora is ARM.

This is not exactly true. Windows 7, being descendant of Windows NT, was originally designed (and distributed) on 4 hardware platforms : x86, DEC Alpha, MIPS and PPC. I have somewhere at home installation CDs from old MSDN subscription for Windows NT 3.51 for these platforms and had personally seen production systems on Alpha running natively Windows NT (this was long time ago, shame the architecture is now dead). Microsoft may port Windows 7 to another architecture like ARM, especially given that they are already familiar with it (via Windows CE).

Still, this will likely prove difficult and might turn out to be impossible due to limited capabilities of ARM chip compared with ones mentioned above (nothing I could comment on, just a possibility). Not to mention high cost of such move and very low return - it does not seem to make sense from business perspective.

But, even if at some point, Microsoft releases "Windows 7 OpenPandora edition" or whatever we imagine such entity might be called, binaries compiled for x86 won't run there, because of, as you rightly noticed, lack of native compatibility. Trying to imagine x86-emulation-virtual-machine, running on ARM, to allow using such programs would just break the hook I used to temporarily hang disbelief on.

 

[Tor]

But IIRC 3.51 which ran on Alpha was also the last one running on Alpha. MS dropped Alpha support at that point, and it wasn't because Alpha was gone - there were companies which had products hitting the brick wall because they had put their eggs in the MS basket.
It's likely that the code that supported anything else than x86 was just ripped out after NT 3.51.

 

[CyruzDraxs]

From the bits of Microsoft related news I've seen lately it sounds very much like they are working on ARM support. They don't want Google Android stealing their thunder and they will stop at nothing to make sure they stay at the top of the market. Considering how quickly the netbook market has grown and how many Android-based netbooks are coming out in the next year, I'd say the netbook business is very important to Microsoft and Google is threatening their dominance in that market.

Also; Microsoft could very easily put their VirtualPC team to work making an integrated binary translation system much like Apple did when they switched to Intel. Infact; they had a job posted about a year ago seeking several binary translation engineers--most likely to add to the VirtualPC team, but I'm sure they are up to something. Microsoft does ALOT of R&D and I'd say it's pretty much certain they already have a mostly functional ARM port of Windows 7 with binary translation, they are just deciding whether or not they should release it--it would demand some degree of expanded tech support after all, and no tech company likes to sink more money in tech support unless they really have to.

 

[ldesnogu]

Also; Microsoft could very easily put their VirtualPC team to work making an integrated binary translation system much like Apple did when they switched to Intel. Infact; they had a job posted about a year ago seeking several binary translation engineers--most likely to add to the VirtualPC team, but I'm sure they are up to something. Microsoft does ALOT of R&D and I'd say it's pretty much certain they already have a mostly functional ARM port of Windows 7 with binary translation, they are just deciding whether or not they should release it--it would demand some degree of expanded tech support after all, and no tech company likes to sink more money in tech support unless they really have to.

I also believe MS has ported or is porting Windows 7 to ARM, that'd be silly not to counterattack Intel and its sudden Linux love. And they have experience with ARM chips.

OTOH I would be very surprised if they were trying to use binary translation for running applications on it, it's not the way to go since even if you could achieve a 1 instruction to 1 translation, you would still be limited by the speed of current ARM chips. Even for next generation (mutliple core A9), speed would be an issue given how most Windows apps are bloated (just look at RAM usage).

 

[Tom`]

Well, I agree that MS probably has an ARM build of Windows up their sleeve, but don't see how it would be advantageous to Microsoft to release it, given that the main reason people want to run that OS is compatibility with all their applications. I mean, if they tried releasing Windows on an ARM netbook, I don't think it would sell any better than a Linux netbook, given the wide range of free, already multiplatform applications and (in my experience) better support.

 

[ldesnogu]

People are not only using Windows because of applications (even though obviously if you don't have apps, your OS is useless ), but because they are used to it. As a counter example, I have extremely huge difficulties using Windows whereas I can use any X11 based system.

Anyway if MS really wants to release an ARM Windows port they'd provide their own set of applications, and it would probably be only for OEM and their high-end netbooks. You surely wouldn't be able to buy Windows 7 for ARM in your local shop

 

[fischju]

Microsoft may have the resources to work magic when it comes to x86 code on ARM, but even if they get a 900mhz ARM running code at the speed of a 300mhz x86, it will still be mostly useless. They would have to create their own applications, and give third party software makers incentive.....it would cost a lot. They are more likely to push for/help more small x86 devices, like the UMID.

 

[CyruzDraxs]

The MID business is dead. Microsoft knows this all too well. There is several reasons why releasing Windows 7 for ARM wouldn't really go to well, but at this point they haven't really got a choice; either they release a mediocre product that keeps the netbook market in their control simply by familiarity just like they did with Vista to keep Apple from stealing their thunder, or they give up the netbook market all together and risk losing hundreds of millions of dollars--billions even.

 

[danielpwnsricky]

my two cents.

windows is useless on the pandora. even if it is possible with something like qemu and wine, the applications are still x86 and will run VERY slowly. if microsoft were to port windows 7, it still can't run x86 applications. and if it did, microsoft would still try to find someway to charge us for it.

 

[Kyosys]

I've said this before somewhere, but I doubt they'd rely on emulation. If you have a windows 7 on ARM, it'd be very easy to port windows apps as well, and so all they have to do is throw money at some people, port their own apps and then hope for the best.

Still, I have my doubts about that happening.

 

[second exodous]

Microsoft could just throw money at it, but I don't think they are willing at this time to do that with the financial times. If they didn't start porting Windows already, at least a few years ago, then it will be a long time before this would come to market. Unless Linux or Apple prove that ARM computers are the next big thing I don't see them lifting a finger for ARM.

If Linux Netbooks or Apple's 'big-ipod-touch-netbook-biggest-thing-since-sliced-bread' they have in the pipeline run ARM and sells millions of units Microsoft will take what ever ARM code they have, i.e. their smartphone stuff, and use that. This could keep them relevant in this new market until they make something entirely new or port Windows. Linux and OSX are full featured OSs on ARM so whatever Microsoft comes out with will pale in comparison to them.

That still doesn't answer the question why would anyone want Windows on the Pandora or a device like it? This won't be your main computer. What a device like this will be capable of doing won't require Windows, so you don't need Windows on it. Maybe in a few years if ARM really does start to replace x86 processors in netbooks, notebooks, and even Desktops then would be the time to start worrying about Windows, not now though.

 

[MistaGiggles]

Even if the windows applications COULD be translated to ARM, there is still the huge issue of resolution. Running a program written for a desktop PC will most likely be extremely cramped when it comes to running it on the Pandora. This isn't an issue for software written for the Pandora as they developer would have this in mind.

As others have pointed out; Memory is another huge issue, with desktops having 2-4Gb RAM as standard developers can be lazy in memory management as most users have far more than they need.

It would be nice to have the familiar feel of XP applications on the Pandora, but in reality it would be more frustrating than usual.