Windows 10

[StopPlayingKidz]

Since the Pyra will have a ARM processor many in the forums said that it will be impossible to support it to the Pyra. Ive read some articles online which said Windows 10 will suppport some ARM processing phones. Im no software engineer but can it techniquely still be possible? Im new in the forums, Im very interested for the Pyra!

 

[TrashyMG]

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "Pandora → Software → Other OS" to "Pyra → OS Development".

 

[ekianjo]

Since the Pyra will have a ARM processor many in the forums said that it will be impossible to support it to the Pyra. Ive read some articles online which said Windows 10 will suppport some ARM processing phones. Im no software engineer but can it techniquely still be possible? Im new in the forums, Im very interested for the Pyra!

Search the forums, it has been actively discussed before.

 

[TrashyMG]

For one Microsoft won't just have an ARM version of Windows 10 for sale. It will be available to large phone and tablet manufacturers, however this community is most likely too small for Microsoft to even consider giving the right to run Windows 10 on the Pyra. Also just because it runs Windows doesn't mean the games and applications that you use on your desktop would work on it.  

Technically is it possible, sure why not. However this is a very Linux based community, not even Android gets much love here.

 

[fusion_power]

Windows 10 will run basicly on every toaster if Microsofts plans come true. So why it should not run "accidently" on the Pyra when the ARM family is supported? Afaik ARM means one architecture. However, I know there is always trouble when it comes to the graphics processor which is often pretty different from device to device.

 

[TrashyMG]

I doubt Microsoft's commitment to ARM will last long, I think they will brush it off once the experiment is over.

 

[slaeshjag]

Without drivers for the nubs, keyboard and LCD w/ rotator chip, there isn't much you can do with windows 10 at all. It will for sure not run out-of-the-box via some generic distribution if that'd ever happen, and it'd take work specifically to bring it to the pyra to make it work. Before it's running on any other OMAP5 device, "no chance in hell" is likely an accurate answer.

 

[WizardStan]

The important question to ask is "why?"

I'm not saying that this is the case this time, but in the past when running some ARM version of Windows it has always been because the original poster wanted to run some proprietary Windows software.

So let's nip that in the bud now: even if Windows 10 can be run on the Pyra that still will not allow running existing software. It won't make it possible to run WoW or any other game, or software. All it would enable us to do would be to run ARM compiled versions of the software, and it would be entirely up to the developer whether they choose to make an ARM build or not.

 

[pmprog]

So let's nip that in the bud now: even if Windows 10 can be run on the Pyra that still will not allow running existing software

Not most current software... however...
.NET and Windows Store Apps both support ARM as well as Intel architectures.

Mono is okay, but I've certainly experienced a fair few issues with it.

 

[groovechicken]

If anyone gets Windows 10 running on the Pyra, may they suffer from a debilitating case of diarrhea.

 

[pmprog]

If anyone gets Windows 10 running on the Pyra, may they suffer from a debilitating case of diarrhea.

I take this comment half in jest, but...Now this is where we should be asking "Why?" - Why does it matter to you? Especially when it's not you running Windows on the device... For an "open" device, there seems to be a lot of prejudice in the community.

If we can run Windows 10 on the Pyra, I'll probably at least try it; but as you'll lose certain things due to lack of drivers, probably won't keep it.

 

[Ziz]

Windows 10 will run basicly on every toaster if Microsofts plans come true. So why it should not run "accidently" on the Pyra when the ARM family is supported? Afaik ARM means one architecture. However, I know there is always trouble when it comes to the graphics processor which is often pretty different from device to device.

ARM devices are not like IBM compatible PCs... On a PC the BIOS/UEFI tells the OS some first informations to boot. But later it needs drivers anyway.On ARM you don't have such stuff. And the different ARM devices may be quite different.

 

[pmprog]

ARM devices are not like IBM compatible PCs... On a PC the BIOS/UEFI tells the OS some first informations to boot.

What does that have to do with the price of beans?
The Raspberry Pi has no BIOS or UEFI.

Sure, it might not run on all ARM chips, and there'll certainly be a lack of drivers especially for the Pyra, but the BIOS/UEFI point is moot.

 

[Ziz]

ARM devices are not like IBM compatible PCs... On a PC the BIOS/UEFI tells the OS some first informations to boot.

What does that have to do with the price of beans?
The Raspberry Pi has no BIOS or UEFI.

Sure, it might not run on all ARM chips, and there'll certainly be a lack of drivers especially for the Pyra, but the BIOS/UEFI point is moot.

The difference is: Microsoft brings Windows 10 to this device. Microsoft will not bring Windows 10 to the Pyra. Windows is not Open Source, so the needed changes can not be done.

 

[pmprog]

The difference is: Microsoft brings Windows 10 to this device. Microsoft will not bring Windows 10 to the Pyra. Windows is not Open Source, so the needed changes can not be done.

Do you have insight into Microsoft's plan that others don't? Whilst there more than likely won't be a specific Pyra edition, you don't know what type of ARM releases they'll do. They seem to like their "Internet of Things" at the minute, so why couldn't they release a version that runs on OMAP5's and other TI boards - which coincidently would include the Pyra hardware (or at least some of it)? In fact, all they'd need is an ARMv7 build right? I'm not sure if it's quite that straight forward, but that's the same architecture as the Pyra.
Windows rusn on both Intel and AMD chips, imagine that (yes, I know they're "compatible"), it also seems to support dozens of motherboards, graphic cards etc.

I'm not saying Windows 10 will definately come, I'm not saying it'd work straight out of the box, I'm not even sure I'm arsed if it does, but unless you can categorically say that Microsoft 10 will not support the OMAP used in the Pyra, you have no idea that "it cannot be done".

Ugh, this hasn't helped my mood today.

Edit:

One last thing before I close the browser for today: Yes, you're right, it'll have to be Microsoft to bring Win10 to the Pyra (which is what I think you were trying to get at), but it could be that the Pyra is "supported" as a by-product whatever ARM releases Microsoft do - as opposed to being intentional

 

[TrashyMG]

The difference is: Microsoft brings Windows 10 to this device. Microsoft will not bring Windows 10 to the Pyra. Windows is not Open Source, so the needed changes can not be done.

Do you have insight into Microsoft's plan that others don't? Whilst there more than likely won't be a specific Pyra edition, you don't know what type of ARM releases they'll do. They seem to like their "Internet of Things" at the minute, so why couldn't they release a version that runs on OMAP5's and other TI boards - which coincidently would include the Pyra hardware (or at least some of it)? In fact, all they'd need is an ARMv7 build right? I'm not sure if it's quite that straight forward, but that's the same architecture as the Pyra.
Windows rusn on both Intel and AMD chips, imagine that (yes, I know they're "compatible"), it also seems to support dozens of motherboards, graphic cards etc.

I'm not saying Windows 10 will definately come, I'm not saying it'd work straight out of the box, I'm not even sure I'm arsed if it does, but unless you can categorically say that Microsoft 10 will not support the OMAP used in the Pyra, you have no idea that "it cannot be done".

Ugh, this hasn't helped my mood today.

Edit:

One last thing before I close the browser for today: Yes, you're right, it'll have to be Microsoft to bring Win10 to the Pyra (which is what I think you were trying to get at), but it could be that the Pyra is "supported" as a by-product whatever ARM releases Microsoft do - as opposed to being intentional

Okay first off Microsoft seems to be targeting extremely popular embedded systems for their extremely stripped of features version of Windows 10. To say bluntly the OMAP5 isn't popular at all, in fact the Pyra will most likely be the first commercial product using the SoC and a few thousand units will not get Microsoft's attention. That said SoCs are different beasts than traditional processors like AMD and Intel offerings with standardized motherboard platforms. In the ARM world each SoC has its own unique driver challenges, which makes it less likely to "just" boot on other devices.

 

[lulzfish]

Why does it matter to you? Especially when it's not you running Windows on the device... For an "open" device, there seems to be a lot of prejudice in the community.

There's a network effect. If a lot of people ran Windows instead of a GNU/Linux distro, it would draw developer time away from GNU/Linux.

 

[TrashyMG]

Moved on request, The Pyra OS Development section should be limited to actual Development.

 

[WizardStan]

I had a very tangential thought on this: I wonder how much more work is required to build an x86 emulator into ReactOS and get it working on ARM. You'd get a Windows operating system, you could build most of the libraries natively, only applications would need emulating. In theory I suspect the performance would be better than a complete emulation system like Exegears, and even with all the work still required I bet it'd have a better shot than getting Windows 10 to work in a way that could run x86 native applications.

Which is to say it's only a little bit closer to this side of impossible.

 

[Klumpen]

http://arstechnica.com/information-...ers-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-says-next-gen-cpus-will-require-windows-10/