Programming

[KickAss]

Well my mother thinks me learning Python is a great idea and asks if there are any hard copy books she can get for me while she's in America!


I'm going to do some research online now, but any suggestions?

http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfpython/


as mentioned before. jump right in and have fun with python from the very beginning. get basic stuff working first, then later worry about the quality of your code.


i loved this book. for many reasons, actually.

 

[FaeMinx]

Arg! That book looks good for getting into it quickly, but I've already submitted my list:


More Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner

http://www.amazon.com/More-Python-Programming-Absolute-Beginner/dp/1435459806/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432669137&sr=1-1&keywords=more+python+programming+for+the+absolute+beginner


Learning Python, 5th Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Python-5th-Mark-Lutz/dp/1449355730/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432669602&sr=1-1&keywords=learning+python+5th+edition


Python in a Nutshell, Second Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Python-Nutshell-Second-Edition-In/dp/0596100469


The Python Standard Library by Example (Developer's Library)

http://www.amazon.com/Python-Standard-Library-Example-Developers/dp/0321767349/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432672202&sr=1-1&keywords=the+python+standard+library+by+example


I thought that between those books and online youtube videos, I would be covered...


Edit:


I was going to go for:


Python Essential Reference (4th Edition)

http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-David-Beazley/dp/0672329786/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432670324&sr=1-1&keywords=python+essential+reference


But I thought 'The Python Standard Library by Example' would be a better choice.


Thought?

 

[TrashyMG]

I am genuinely impressed. Eclipse is not exactly the tightest of applications. Did you actually do anything more than start it up and close it again? Is it moderately usable for those that like to torture themselves?

When I get home I'll try something out, running it from VNC from work may not be the best for telling how fast something is running.

Edit: Okay at home, opened up a fairly large project ( JCloisterZone ) and the interface seem quite responsive, I can tell it's not as snappy as my 8-core I7 work laptop, but still quite usable. The total system memory usage (including OS running) is less than 600MB, when I switch between files in the project I see one of the CPUs jump to maybe at most 20% for a brief second, then drop to 1-2% or so. Since I don't have oracle Java installed yet, I can't compile Jcloisterzone as it requires Oracle Java... All in all it seems like it could very well be viable to use it on the Pyra.

Edit2: Anything that may appear as praise of eclipse is the surprise it work as well as it does, I still think Eclipse is a steaming pile...

 

[levi]

Thought?

I'd have thought - unless you're saving a colossal amount of money versus buying these advanced books later, I'd save my money now and only buy the first two or three in your list now.  Personally I suspect that if you get reasonably proficient with python, you'll be able to use the standard reference and adapt stackoverflow examples to do whatever you want, and not be so dependent on books.  Those latter books are also more dependent on the version of python you're running, and if you don't get to them for a couple of years, they'll be significantly out of date by then.

 

[renegadechic]

Someone gave me a pdf copy of Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional published by Apress 2 years ago which seems okay so far.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Python-From-Novice-Professional/dp/159059519X

I gave it a go 2 years ago and felt a little more out of my depth with the terminology but seem to have learned more than I realised in the last two years from screwing with VBA!

One thing I find is nice going from a book is that whilst I get the terminology and snippets from online questions and tutorials, it gives a more solid grounding in whats going on. I always find I know more with VBA what is possible than how to achieve it and need help, which can get frustrating. Going from some proper literature should let me walk a bit before running.

 

[Haraldur]

In my own experience, I have never needed to pay for a book to learn a programming language. I learned Java from lecture handouts (attend the lectures? what?) and the rest from online tutorials, forum questions etc. as well as some free* books, such as Starting Forth; I believe the official Python tutorial is more than sufficient to get you started.

* as in beer, some as in freedom. Some examples: SICP (freedom), Starting Forth (beer), Thinking Forth (freedom), Practical Common Lisp (freedom?), Learn Python the Hard Way (beer), Learn Ruby the Hard Way (beer), Learn C the Hard way (beer, I have found this one useful).

For reference, check http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html and, particularly, http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html#Python. You will learn, as a by-product, that bravado is very important.

 

[FaeMinx]

ok. points noted.

if you had to pick 2 or 3 from that list, which ones?

In exactly the order I listed them?

Edit:

Ok, I've refined my list:

Learning Python, 5th Edition
http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Python-5th-Mark-Lutz/dp/1449355730/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432669602&sr=1-1&keywords=learning+python+5th+edition

Python Pocket Reference
http://www.amazon.com/Python-Pocket-Reference-OReilly/dp/1449357016/ref=dp_rm_title_0

More Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner
http://www.amazon.com/More-Python-Programming-Absolute-Beginner/dp/1435459806/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432669137&sr=1-1&keywords=more+python+programming+for+the+absolute+beginner

 

[renegadechic]

Hmm based on the reviews the third one has a real game focus so if thats what you want it for, it could be a good place to start.

The other two seem to have two different purposes. The first is described as like learning english by reading the dictionary which sounds like its entirely thorough but might be a challenge. The second one sounds like it could be good but maybe it could be too in brief? Depends how nerdy you want to get with it I guess. Since you've been talking about Java and C/C++ I think maybe the Learning Python could give you the best grounding but you will definitely want to be throwing into some practical application at the same time so you can mix the fun with the factual content

 

[levi]

The second one is the pocket reference.  I'd assume that to be a reference book, rather than something you learn from, so if you suggest the third book isn't a good learning tool (and reviews I've read of the first book suggest it's not for complete beginners) then we're missing a book.

 

[FaeMinx]

^

I have decided on  all 3 in combination with loads of youtube tutorials I've been downloading as well as a couple of free pdfs

My thoughts are that by the time the books arrive in a couple of weeks, I will have already covered some Python and Pygame basics, but may not entirely understand what i'm doing.

Some reviews of the first book say it reads like a novel (which I like), and is very thorough... explaining many ways to do the same thing.

I would regard this as something I read in bed, and maybe even read a few times (If I can get through 1600 pages).

For hands on and to keep me engaged, practicing and experimenting - I thought book 3 would be ideal, and that the theory I was reading in book 1 could fill in any gaps of understanding.

Book 2 is just a lightweight reference that's pretty up to date, that I can carry with me to remind me of what I've already learned.

With the online tutorials, do you really think I need another book? Possibly the prequel to 'More Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner'?

 

[TrashyMG]

Personally I found that having a project you really want/need to accomplish is a better method to learn something than just mulling over text books.

 

[FaeMinx]

Well, I have big ideas that are completely impractical right now.

i would be very happy making and modifying the games in the 3rd book... see if I can't improve them.

Re the 'missing book"

... would this be a good choice:

http://www.amazon.com/Python-Programming-Introduction-Computer-Science/dp/1590282418/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_z

 

[levi]

Although Python is used as the language, teaching Python is not the main point of this book. Rather, Python is used to illustrate fundamental principles of design and programming that apply in any language or computing environment.

I'm not sure that's aligned with your stated goals tbh.

 

[bzar]

Make a pong.

I always make a pong.

Just recently, I made another pong.

There can't be too many pongs in the world.

 

[Neelix]

Make a pong.

I always make a pong.

That makes it sound like you eat a lot of beans.

(or perhaps you like to randomly open tins of Surströmming as an air freshener?)

-Neelix

 

[Bosbeetle]

Personally I found that having a project you really want/need to accomplish is a better method to learn something than just mulling over text books.

This times a 100... just get a nice good project with clear goals, getting there will make you learn more than a book ever could.

Even a silly goal like making a ball move over the screen as a first step can be rewarding...

 

[renegadechic]

Starter goal: install geany on pandora, find a small script online, get it to run in terminal

Status: achieved!

Achievement unlocked: If at first you don't succeed (took me about 20 attempts to get it to run in terminal. I thought I was doing it all wrong but it was my fault for not being case sensitive enough with the filepath)

Observations: 1) I really like Geany so far as a text editor. I've used a few before and it seems to work well. 2) I am starting to appreciate the keyboard threads a little more. Its going to take some practice to remember where all the different symbols are and what key combos are needed. I did feel like it was a little frustrating with Fn that if i accidentally pressed it, I couldn't easily break out of it without typing something and then deleting it.

 

[WizardStan]

My first task when learning a new programming language is always tic-tac-toe. It's easy enough to accomplish in a few hours and broad enough to cover most of the standard features of any language: input, output, arrays, strings, functions, etc...

 

[pmprog]

Make a pong.

I always make a pong.

Just recently, I made another pong.

There can't be too many pongs in the world.

Hehe, I made a "battle" Pong game for the Pandora. It was supposed to be a collab with Foxblock (who was going to make it all pretty). I never finished the network play, and Foxblock disappeared with his studies
Maybe sometime in the future (unless somebody wants a two player local on it)

 

[FaeMinx]

Books arrived yesterday.

Very excited. Am still super busy making stock, but have had a quick peruse.

You guys are correct, to get stuck in straight away, I was missing a book - namely:

'Python Programming for the Absolute beginner' which is the prequel to the book I got.

Luckily i found it online as a PDF, and now have that book on my tablet... So I'm all sorted.

Geany is just great. I love it.

I've made a basic snake game, but that's pretty much just following an online tutorial, so  I can change the easy stuff, but have  no idea how to do anything beyond what was expressly laid out in the tut.

This is where I am very very happy with 'Learning python 5th ed.'

This volume is a whopper. Impossible to hold and read... it has to be propped some way.

But it is *thorough* and focuses on the core language itself, not on how to create applications... so by going through the book which will be a self paced course... I will understand and *know* Python. It is a great foundation to lay and I am so pleased the book goes into such extensive and repetitive detail on every little thing.

I can see why people who choose Python because they need to get things done quickly and want to get up to speed as quickly at possible would find the book insufferably tedious and needlessly verbose.

This book is not meant for those people. It is meant for people like me who would love to go study the subject full time in a college setting, but due to circumstances are forced to rely on themselves and whatever free time they can snatch. People who are happy to take things as slowly and thoroughly as they need to.

This book is designed to be digested slowly over a course of months, and you take it one page at a time... starting right at the beginning.

As a reference manual it is completely inappropriate... but that is what the 'Python Pocket Reference' is for - it was designed to be a companion book and is much much smaller than I imagined. Literally pocket sized.

I plan to go through the Absolute Beginner series at the same time as 'Learning Python'.

It's all very exciting.    ^_^