Windows 10

[_jr_]

What exactly is better with Apple (or Google or Facebook or Steam or Whatsapp or Firefox or ) than on Windows 10? My impression (I don't use any of these) was that - as usual - Microsoft is late to the party and is just implementing what is already common on other platforms. The problem IMO is that user data has much more value for advertising than for any other use. And that is because marketing is more or less the ultimate scam. Unless we fix the ad business we won't see much use of data that is actually beneficial to the user. There is for example nothing wrong with Google having a database of cell tower locations, but it is problematic that the normal access api is asking for the location of a particular tower. While synchronizing (parts of) this database on a regular basis has most of the user benefits and none of the privacy concerns.

 

[rygD]

What exactly is better with Apple (or Google or Facebook or Steam or Whatsapp or Firefox or ) than on Windows 10?

Nothing.  I don't like modern Apple (I feel that they fuck over their customers in many ways so I refuse to purchase their products for my personal use (but will purchase them for others as gifts, which is still funding them)), however I would feel more comfortable having OSX on my network than an OS that is supposedly going to send the information about how to access the network to people I did not give permission to access it (I have many other issues with Microsoft, and with Windows 10, if what I am reading is true, and refuse to allow those I care about to be taken advantage of in a way that I know about and not at least warn them...since this is my network that I pay for, and with my devices on it, until I have looked into it further I am not allowing a Windows 10 box on it).  I don't use Facebook, however I have abused/misused it a bit in the past.  I have never used Whatsapp.  Steam and Firefox are both a matter of convenience for me, however I am not a fan of either.  I only use Firefox on my things when I am trying to access stuff that doesn't work well with other browsers, or if I need one of the little add on thingies, such as when I occasionally play Urban Dead.  Steam is just a way for me to get games.

An OS or program itself is not the problem.  The problem is when it was designed to do things I disagree with.  If there is no way for it to do those things I would possibly still use it or play with it.  For example, I would like to see what Windows 10 has going on, but I would play with it in such  way that it can't pull an E.T. and phone home.  By doing it in that way I will be unable to see what it truly offers, and I would not be able to see what it is trying to send to MS (however I would probably monitor traffic to get an idea).  Maybe I will go spend the afternoon one day next week at a store and play with it.  I was instantly disgusted by Windows 8 when I messed with it in a store, so 10 doesn't have to do much to be an improvement.

For my personal use I will stick with a (non-Apple) *nix, and a bit of DOS and Haiku and other fun little things.

I noticed I missed Google.  I do, stupidly, use some Google services and products, and not in a way that protects my information.  They have done many things to piss me off over the years, too.  I think the hearts of some Google employees are in the right place, and the company is just a bit too big, with its tentacles in everything, to truly not be evil.

The advertising, even targeted advertising doesn't really bother me.  I am one of those idiots that tries to help out some sites that sell advertiser space and such by actually going to their sponsors sites sometimes.  I nearly never find anything of interest to me, but the 2 minutes I spend looking around is worth it to me if the site/company I actually like gets a bit of money.

 

[fusion_power]

My buddy uses an Mac Mini recently. Mainly for coding iOS apps but also for saving energy. Cute little tings actualy these Mac Minis. And Apple has the better VMWare it seems (free adjustable Window for example). He used his Mac to gain access to a Linux Server over an Windows 7 in the VM, funny stuff actualy. (His Main PC had a virus so he used his Mac. We wanted to copy stuff from an NTFS USB Stick so he used the Windows in the VM to upload the stuff from his Linux Server to be on the safe side.)

 

[_jr_]

Thanks for the explanation. I may be wrong, but I think the fundamental issue is that the current rules make it more or less mandatory to abuse user data if you want to be economically successfull. And allowing businesses to not only have users pay for there services but through advertising also unsuspecting non users (that happen to buy a product that uses said advertising channel) is a significant part of the problem (and basing your whole empire on such methods makes 'don't be evil' just an insider joke). (Economically viable) Software simply cannot become more user friendly before any such imbalance is solved. E.g. there is a bug report on mozilla's bugzilla about adding a flash blocker by default (which is technically trivial). It was argued that would be bad because it would impede the ability of websites to push ads to users ('user agent' my a*).

Unfortunately I have no idea how to make advertising less problematic.

 

[ElPoco]

@_jr_ : I've been thinking about this. If I could afford the risk, I'd start my own company to offer a new advertising paradigm where the customer chooses to get advertising (for example because he's looking to buy something) and which informations he's okay to give the company. The idea would be to have computer advertising not be like flashy signs outside of shops (which is what it's like today) but more like going to a shop and telling the seller what you're looking for and answering the questions you're okay with answering.

 

[Caine]

@_jr_ : I've been thinking about this. If I could afford the risk, I'd start my own company to offer a new advertising paradigm where the customer chooses to get advertising (for example because he's looking to buy something) and which informations he's okay to give the company. The idea would be to have computer advertising not be like flashy signs outside of shops (which is what it's like today) but more like going to a shop and telling the seller what you're looking for and answering the questions you're okay with answering.

To some extend, this is what windows 10 seems to be doing. They generate some advertisement Id, based on the privacy settings that you have not disabled, and applications are allowed to read out that data (if I understood correctly, I didn't dive that deeply into it).
I think the defaults are horribly wrong and that the user should enable per application what can be read and what not but your vision is greatly helped by controlling this at the OS level. You could even realize an advertisement API similar to the centralized notification system to get all of it out of the main application and into a central spot.

 

[_jr_]

@_jr_ : I've been thinking about this. If I could afford the risk, I'd start my own company to offer a new advertising paradigm where the customer chooses to get advertising (for example because he's looking to buy something) and which informations he's okay to give the company. The idea would be to have computer advertising not be like flashy signs outside of shops (which is what it's like today) but more like going to a shop and telling the seller what you're looking for and answering the questions you're okay with answering.

To some extend, this is what windows 10 seems to be doing. They generate some advertisement Id, based on the privacy settings that you have not disabled, and applications are allowed to read out that data (if I understood correctly, I didn't dive that deeply into it).

I think the defaults are horribly wrong and that the user should enable per application what can be read and what not but your vision is greatly helped by controlling this at the OS level. You could even realize an advertisement API similar to the centralized notification system to get all of it out of the main application and into a central spot.

I think the problem is less in the implementation and more in the legal framework. What I've seen of the Windows 10 EULA seems to give MS unconditional control over the user's data (and e.g. Steam isn't any different in this regard). It is one thing to be able to easily keep something from Microsoft, but it is more important to be able to have a legal mechanism in place to prevent someone from using data that has been disclosed by accident or even voluntary in the past. Therefore ElPoco's idea is more user friendly because IIUC the way data is shared is part of the contract whereas with Windows 10 you give Microsoft blank permission to screw you if you ever make a mistake with the privacy settings (that - let's not forget - like to reset themselves to Microsoft friendly values). I suspect the easiest way out is to make such a blank permission illegal.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I suspect the easiest way out is to make such a blank permission illegal.

The easiest way out is get the hell away from Windows 10

 

[ElPoco]

I've made the update on my work machine today. It was painless and there was a screen about the privacy settings with an option (although a small one with an unclear French translation) that let me opt-out of many privacy-invading settings. I have to check if there are other settings that weren't in those screens, but at least it's better than what I feared. 

I was also able to proceed even if I don't have a microsoft account.

 

[Glyph Reader]

At first, I was somewhat interested at updating my Windows 7 partition, but I might wait on that for a month or two to see how bad or good it gets.  Forced automatic updates seem like a very bad idea, and from what I have seen, they can't be disabled in the Home edition?  If so, I may not want to update at all. 

-Glyph Reader

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

My IT guy sent out a blast email last week encouraging everyone in the company to upgrade their home PCs to Windows 10.  I overheard today in the office that he is groaning in pain with another IT guy about privacy issues of Windows 10.  

 

[ElPoco]

I think the forced automatic updates are to avoid leaving security issues opened on computers connected to the Internet. This is a huge problem with older versions of Windows, 

 

[rygD]

My IT guy sent out a blast email last week encouraging everyone in the company to upgrade their home PCs to Windows 10.  I overheard today in the office that he is groaning in pain with another IT guy about privacy issues of Windows 10.  

Why would someone use their position in the workplace to make suggestions as to what people do at home (happens a lot here, most often about religious topics and choice of church (or none, in my case), but also carries over into other things, however those often go back to what their church people tell them)?  Also, why would anyone in a position that represents authority on a particular subject suggest anything in their field of "expertise" without investigating and trying things out on their own first?

I hate your IT guy.

 

[Loonie]

You shouldn't have to worry about crap like this on an operating system. Ugh.

 

[rygD]

You shouldn't have to worry about crap like this on an operating system. Ugh.

Fully agree.  It really bugs me that it dictates to the user how things will be, instead of the other way around.  That is probably the part that bothers me most.

 

[Klumpen]

No matter how often Linux slaps me some "sure you can do that, but I won't tell you how " in the face,

I'll always love it more than Windows and every new incarnation of Windows strenghtens this bond.

No DRMed operating system for me, thank you.

An OS that tries to gather and sell as many of my data as possible until I set it up and hack it otherwise? Hahaha..... No!

 

[Caine]

Why would someone use their position in the workplace to make suggestions as to what people do at home (happens a lot here, most often about religious topics and choice of church (or none, in my case), but also carries over into other things, however those often go back to what their church people tell them)?  Also, why would anyone in a position that represents authority on a particular subject suggest anything in their field of "expertise" without investigating and trying things out on their own first?

I hate your IT guy.

Most people have a tendency to assume that whatever works for them, works for everyone else. Because it makes their lives easier they tend to impose their way onto everyone else. Naturally, we all do it unintentionally from time to time, but religious people seem to have a living out of it.
It is a sad day when the IT department tries to have a say in what people do in their own home. I would not go so far as to say I hate his IT guy (I don't waste energy on hating people), but I am glad he is not my IT guy.

 

[rygD]

I hate most humans, so don't think this guy is very special.  He only gets special attention for giving bad advice.  Kinda like some of the church people here (and they spread far more hate than even I could dish out).

No matter how often Linux slaps me some "sure you can do that, but I won't tell you how " in the face,

I'll always love it more than Windows and every new incarnation of Windows strenghtens this bond.

No DRMed operating system for me, thank you.

An OS that tries to gather and sell as many of my data as possible until I set it up and hack it otherwise? Hahaha..... No!

I wonder how much functionality for average users would be crippled by doing what you mention in your last line (this means those that might want some of the features but don't want the OS keeping tabs on everything they do).

 

[Garrett]

Can someone help me upgrade a system I've recently inherited.. believe it or not I've never changed/updated an OS.

It's currently running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate but isn't activated, I do have a genuine Windows 8.1 Standard licence key though.

 

[iprice]

Can someone help me upgrade a system I've recently inherited.. believe it or not I've never changed/updated an OS.

It's currently running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate but isn't activated, I do have a genuine Windows 8.1 Standard licence key though.

TBH, as a Windows user myself (flame me now), I'd stick with Win7. No need to worry about 8.1 or 10. I had no choice* when I bought my laptop - it was Win8.1 only (I did ask). I've got used to (and like) it, but I'd still rather 7.

* I know, I could uninstall Windows and go with a free OS like Linux, but I code in GLB, which is only available for Windows and it's my only pc.