Windows 10

[Klumpen]

Why has this thread become a m$ hate fest? I think windows 10 is pretty neat so far, if people are lazy, unwilling or scared to update (for free) or prefer linux based OS that's cool but no need for all the hate.

Hate? It's about quite real dangers. This OS is probably the biggest security risk imaginable (the password storage and sharing thing for example) and in addition to that gives all your data (including any eMail you write when using it and every keystroke thanks to the embedded keylogger) away to marketing companies and secret services. You don't have to be paranoid to see the inevitable problems.

I don't have anything against properly tweaked Microsoft OSs (although I don't see the point since if you have to tweak it, you can use Linux anyway), but one that tweaks itself back to this mess on a regular basis and takes every control from you long term is not cool. It's nonsensical and dangerous for private use and atrocious for business use where you handle sensitive data anyway.

 

[Caine]

Why has this thread become a m$ hate fest? I think windows 10 is pretty neat so far, if people are lazy, unwilling or scared to update (for free) or prefer linux based OS that's cool but no need for all the hate.

There are quite a few features I like in windows 10 (e.g. better cmd shell, virtual desktops (finally), return to the desktop interface (less metro)).
However, these privacy concerns are a serious issue. It seems the problem is mainly in the defaults as many of the options can be disabled. So, I'm holding of on upgrading my work laptop (my only windows machine) until experts have analyzed and addressed these issues.

 

[elwing]

Why has this thread become a m$ hate fest? I think windows 10 is pretty neat so far, if people are lazy, unwilling or scared to update (for free) or prefer linux based OS that's cool but no need for all the hate.

Hate? It's about quite real dangers. This OS is probably the biggest security risk imaginable (the password storage and sharing thing for example) and in addition to that gives all your data (including any eMail you write when using it and every keystroke thanks to the embedded keylogger) away to marketing companies and secret services. You don't have to be paranoid to see the inevitable problems.

I don't have anything against properly tweaked Microsoft OSs (although I don't see the point since if you have to tweak it, you can use Linux anyway), but one that tweaks itself back to this mess on a regular basis and takes every control from you long term is not cool. It's nonsensical and dangerous for private use and atrocious for business use where you handle sensitive data anyway.

Sorry, but these "risks" only exist for the people who are not already writing all their activities and live on facebook and such... for them, and I fear it include most young peoples, it's not like it would change much...

 

[Caine]

Sorry, but these "risks" only exist for the people who are not already writing all their activities and live on facebook and such... for them, and I fear it include most young peoples, it's not like it would change much...

It is also a major risk in the professional market. Some of us handle company secrets on a day to day basis and are under an NDA to protect that data. An OS leaking that information into the cloud is simply unacceptable.

 

[ekianjo]

Sorry, but these "risks" only exist for the people who are not already writing all their activities and live on facebook and such... for them, and I fear it include most young peoples, it's not like it would change much...

It is also a major risk in the professional market. Some of us handle company secrets on a day to day basis and are under an NDA to protect that data. An OS leaking that information into the cloud is simply unacceptable.

That's why you have entreprise editions which usually differ from the Home editions significantly. 

 

[elwing]

we are definitely atypical users, most actual users don't give a damn about such consideration, anyway they publish most of their "private" information themselves without help from the OS already...

 

[Klumpen]

we are definitely atypical users, most actual users don't give a damn about such consideration, anyway they publish most of their "private" information themselves without help from the OS already...

I never have had a Facebook-account and am probably not up-to-date, but how many people upload all their passwords there?

 

[Ziz]

Why has this thread become a m$ hate fest? I think windows 10 is pretty neat so far, if people are lazy, unwilling or scared to update (for free) or prefer linux based OS that's cool but no need for all the hate.

Of course there is need for hate! I wonder, why you even ask, why this thread derailed. I would have been very disappointed if it would not have. Especially in a board about an open console.

Microsoft Windows is the opposite of open.

Btw. I made the observation, that most people using phrases like "Mickeysoft" or "M$" are Windows users theirself. Is this some kind of self criticism about theirself like "See, I don't like Microsoft, too, but I am forced to use it! I don't like it!!!!!11111eleven". I should ask some sociologists...

 

[Caine]

I never have had a Facebook-account and am probably not up-to-date, but how many people upload all their passwords there?

Never had any social media account. Then again, I don't own a mobile phone either.

 

[Klumpen]

I never have had a Facebook-account and am probably not up-to-date, but how many people upload all their passwords there?

Never had any social media account. Then again, I don't own a mobile phone either.

People without Facebook often have no smartphones (I haven't got one either), maybe because the ability to share every nonsense on Facebook is one of the main reasons for some to have it, thinking of the infamous dish of noodles with tomatoe sauce which seems to be quite common under the shared photographies.

I need my simple mobile phone for work though.

 

[rygD]

Wow.

I wasn't keeping up with this thread since I am not a Microsoft customer or Windows user (not in my personal life anyway, but if someone is paying me to do work and they require Windows...well, you all get it).  I knew Windows 10 had been released, but somehow I missed all of the other stuff.  

There is only one fairly new Windows box used in my home, and now it seems I will have to sit down and explain all of this stuff to them so that they are a lot more careful with OS choices and what their friends bring over.  Looks like I might need to change some stuff on our network too.  I don't know what version of Windows they were/are using, but they understood and took my explanation of things such as Facebook well and are serious about not wanting to use it and potentially share too much personal information, possibly negatively impacting their future goals.  

They do use libre and open source software, and have used Linux and similar OSs in the past after I shared (forced) them.  I thought allowing them to use Windows would not negatively affect me and would allow them to play more games they were interested in, and it seems for the most part this is still true, however this is MY network, and I do not give Microsoft permission to collect information about it, especially how to access it, and to give that to others.  

I have to look into this more and figure some things out.  I have been a long time Microsoft hater, and they keep doing more to show me that hate is deserved.  Every time I try to relax a little on my "no Microsoft products" stance they do something else that I feel is unacceptable.  Now I am concerned that their choices and my refusal to do certain things with their products will severely disrupt my future goals through education due to how strong the presence of Windows based classes are here.  I have already had very big problems related to a class that required the use of Microsoft products, and was unable to complete some assignments because of this.  I don't yet know if I passed one with what I was able to complete, and now I suspect future classes may require Windows 10, which I will refuse to allow access to the Internet through my network.

Serious question: Does anyone know of a list that includes US universities offering IT related degrees (networking and security strongly preferred, may consider other options) that do not require Microsoft products, and, if possible, no proprietary software?

I never have had a Facebook-account and am probably not up-to-date, but how many people upload all their passwords there?

Never had any social media account. Then again, I don't own a mobile phone either.

I got away with that for a while until it started negatively impacting the time/money/jobs of others.  It was so nice to be free of that leash, even for a little while.

 

[Nintendo]

Who cares how your freedom impacts others. Don't worry about those zombie sheep.

 

[ElPoco]

Data collection is definitely a mess.

Some services can greatly benefit from access to personal data. If my messaging application can get data from my calendar and see that the person I'm texting is the person I'm supposed to meet in 5 minutes and can get my position and notice that I'm 30 minutes away, it can put forwards options like sending a default "I'll be late" or "I'm on my way" message and save me the trouble of typing it while too busy tying my shoes with one hand and grabbing my bag with the second and preventing the cats from running out of the house with the other.

Typically these services should be able to do most of these without sending data outside, but some might need to. This doesn't mean that I'm ok with the company selling or using the data for other purposes.

Some services and companies can benefit from anonymous data usage. That's something I've been recently faced with at work: we'd like to add some metrics to be able to tell how our users are using our products and where they're coming from. We're not looking to identify any user, we don't want to sell this data for advertising or other such purposes. We just want to figure out if our users are using this feature or not and stuff like this. 

And then there's the data that's really used only for advertising/data mining and other similar usage. I understand that some companies can offer free products thanks to this and that many users are fine with this, but I'd like to be able to pay with money instead. I'd love to pay a monthly fee to Google so that I could use all Google services while keeping full control over my data, instead of paying with my data.

From what I see, Windows 10 has a mix and match of all theses, and that's a mess. It would be nice to have a unified list of all features and a clear explanation of which only use the data to provide the service (and in that case where it's stored and how I can modify/remove it) and which use if for other purposes.

 

[rygD]

Who cares how your freedom impacts others. Don't worry about those zombie sheep.

Those others included my family.  One family member is also always on call due to their position.  She is the one it was having the worst impact on when she could not reliably get in touch with me.

 

[Ziz]

 

[Nintendo]

Ahahahahahahahaha, I have millions of pr0n images and movies

Who cares how your freedom impacts others. Don't worry about those zombie sheep.

Those others included my family.  One family member is also always on call due to their position.  She is the one it was having the worst impact on when she could not reliably get in touch with me.

Fair enough, mate.

 

[Caine]

I got away with that for a while until it started negatively impacting the time/money/jobs of others.  It was so nice to be free of that leash, even for a little while.

Indeed. Most people don't like adapting their workflow to suit a (for them) corner case. It's a great way to filter out the less tolerant people. Downside is that there are indeed a few work related corner cases which cause me to rethink my policy. But so far I can still maintain it.
The challenges involved are not unlike those you have with Windows users not understanding that you do not have Word on your Linux machine. Naturally, they do expect you to adapt your workflow to their own usage patterns. I.e. if you sent them an odf or sometimes even a PDF then they demand that you pixel-shift it to some MS office native format.

 

[fusion_power]

This privacy thing may become a problem indeed. I'm sure you can disable most of the questionable stuff but it seems you still need such an Microsoft Account thing for certain things.

Yesterday I registered my free Version of Minecraft Win 10 over my Mojang account. No problem so far. However, it seems to finaly get Minecraft W 10 you need an Microsoft profile where you can use the gift code from Mojang. What an hoax.

Btw. I made the observation, that most people using phrases like "Mickeysoft" or "M$" are Windows users theirself. Is this some kind of self criticism about theirself like "See, I don't like Microsoft, too, but I am forced to use it! I don't like it!!!!!11111eleven". I should ask some sociologists...

That's still one step better than the average Apple user that always praises his products like the holy grail and don't accept any critics.

Ahahahahahahahaha, I have millions of pr0n images and movies

Hehe, who hasn't.Well most of my stuff is Manga/Anime anyways but it is absolutely NSFW and should never "rotate" onto the Desktop. Of course it's all in "my pictures" etc.

I better should buy a new, clean PC then to use Win 10, I have a Laptop in mind this time.

 

[Klumpen]

I better should buy a new, clean PC then to use Win 10, I have a Laptop in mind this time.

Easier said than done since Intel and AMD are building their hardware rootkits ("Intel Insider" and "AMD TrustZone") into the CPUs themselves.

Has AMD already started doing this in the main CPU or only into GPUs yet?

 

[rygD]

I got away with that for a while until it started negatively impacting the time/money/jobs of others.  It was so nice to be free of that leash, even for a little while.

Indeed. Most people don't like adapting their workflow to suit a (for them) corner case. It's a great way to filter out the less tolerant people. Downside is that there are indeed a few work related corner cases which cause me to rethink my policy. But so far I can still maintain it.

The challenges involved are not unlike those you have with Windows users not understanding that you do not have Word on your Linux machine. Naturally, they do expect you to adapt your workflow to their own usage patterns. I.e. if you sent them an odf or sometimes even a PDF then they demand that you pixel-shift it to some MS office native format.

Perfect example there.  The funny part is when people send me Word documents and the formatting gets trashed in Writer I don't tell them that they need to change it to something else.  I salvage what I can (usually copy and paste gets the text, but all the weird formatting and some other things usually don't make it), and when I talk to them later I mention it, and if I have time show them what I recovered and ask if anything major is missing. They usually reply with "just use Word" and it spirals out of control from there ("I use Linux and BSD, so Word and MS Office won't work for me, and I prefer not to use them"  "Why not just use Windows" and then I give examples that are most appropriate to the individual...when will I learn?).  Some people are understanding, and it helps that most people think I am a weirdo anyway, so they are more tolerant and work with me (I am also pretty sure MS Office can create Open Document files, but people can't be bothered to change off of the default, which I do for them all the time).  Maybe I should be the pompous prick and treat them like they do us.

I am going to try to get this back on topic.  I have noticed in the last 5 years or so that more people know what Linux is, and have been quite pleasantly surprised how many have tried it on their computers.  I was extremely happy to find that Linux classes are required for several degree plans in my college and university (however Windows classes are also required, but I feel that is fair enough).  My biggest concern, as I mentioned, is how things will be handled when they switch over to Windows 10.  All of my classes that used a Windows desktop OS were still only using 7, but it seems they (Microsoft) are planning to stick with 10.  Some of these classes required networking Windows VMs, and I can see this possibly being an issue when they require internet access.  In some security classes...I will just say it would be interesting to see how things are handled.  Maybe it won't be so bad because it is always geared toward what you would encounter at the workplace, so perhaps some of the malicious "features" will be turned off by default, or won't take an hour to fix after a fresh install.

In one of my classes (in which the instructor was anti-Windows, from a practical point of view) someone suggested that Windows is malware.  Perhaps Microsoft was taking a stance on that and decided that if people think that they may as well go all the way.  

It just sucks, imo, that they are going so far away from what I, and hopefully most others, feel is acceptable that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground anymore.  I can no longer say "Windows is ok since you want to play games" to the family member I mentioned.  They confirmed they are running Windows 8, and I told them not to switch to 10.  I will fill in the details later, and hopefully another person will see Microsoft for all the bad they do and move over to something else on their own.  I know there are a lot of Apple haters (myself included up to a point), but I would prefer them to Microsoft for now.  Due to this person's prior experience with Linux hopefully they will make a wise choice.  After I have made my case I will make it clear that I am willing to help with sharing options and in decision making and explaining problems, but I won't force my OS choices on them.  Since games are possibly a factor I am pretty sure the choices are somewhat limited.  Maybe we will get lucky and Windows 10 will help push the PC gaming market toward Linux.