Win 2k?

[conso]

Linux is not as easy as Windows. For one thing, the Ubuntu install (for example) was a bit buggy for me. It would freeze at a frozen point in the pre-installation config and I would have to restart and try again. I'm not saying Linux is worse, but as far as stability goes I will have to vouch for Windows.

Did you try the alternate installation cd?

 

[kloplop321]

only 15% of it is leaked, and it is only the networking and some system stuff, and you would STILL need to recompile all the DLL's, the default relations, the registry handler.
it is all a crappy idea.
don't use windows you dorks!

 

[chris_merris]

As this has turned into a "Windows vs Linux" debate... I'll throw my two cents in, as I love Linux, but have yet to completely migrate over because there are still a few things that Windows does better.

The main thing for me that Windows does better is Music Production. Show me a program on Linux that has the features of Propellerheads Reason or Cakewalk Sonar. Still nothing like it. I wholeheartedly believe this is not because Linux does not have the capability to handle such programs, and if they were released for Linux, they would most likely be more reliable than their Windows counterparts - but the fact remains that Cakewalk and Propellerheads (and all the other major players in the DAW market) have chosen to avoid Linux thus far. I don't quite know why - perhaps Linux still has a low enough market share that porting their software would be cost-prohibitive at this point - but then again, a lot of stuff is written for Win and Mac.

Secondly - I think someone who knows Linux well - I would definitely believe them when they say Linux is easier to use than Windows. But I don't think Linux is easier to learn than windows. When installing software, nothing's easier than click-by-click installing. I think Linux has done a good job with improving this - most of the software I install is through Synaptic Package Manager in Ubuntu.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I love Linux and believe it to be superior to Windows in many ways - I think the only thing Windows has on its side right now is marketshare. And I still think the profit-motive helps to create great software.

 

[kloplop321]

I would say that is true for audio, but you just don't have a free editor that can save at 2100 frames per second(video)
but consider this, you NEED TO RECOMPILE, and since when do they "just offer" ARM ports of programs or source code to do that? NEVER except under the GPL license(which was made by Linus)
It simply is not good for mobile portable devices, and is certainly not good at security.

 

[conso]

I would say that is true for audio, but you just don't have a free editor that can save at 2100 frames per second(video)
but consider this, you NEED TO RECOMPILE, and since when do they "just offer" ARM ports of programs or source code to do that? NEVER except under the GPL license(which was made by Linus)
It simply is not good for mobile portable devices, and is certainly not good at security.

The GPL was NOT mad by Linus Torvalds. He was just the first to release a working kernel under that license

 

[lulzfish]

Yeah, actually Richard Stallman wrote the first GPL, and now I think the FSF as a whole works on it.

As for multimedia editing, there is indeed almost no good programs for this in Linux, and that makes me very sad.

But since I do so little audio / video editing, it hasn't bothered me enough to go back to Windows.

 

[conso]

Yeah, actually Richard Stallman wrote the first GPL, and now I think the FSF as a whole works on it.

As for multimedia editing, there is indeed almost no good programs for this in Linux, and that makes me very sad.

But since I do so little audio / video editing, it hasn't bothered me enough to go back to Windows.

Well, there exist powerfull professional video-editing programs for linux... dreamworks, pixar, disney, the list goes on. Most sfx-studios use linux, for a good reason. But well, only some are available on the free market and they are a whole different liga and therefor much more expensive then adobe premiere and other products that made it to the consumer-market.
As to free video-editing software, i found LiVES a pretty powerful and reliable program. And then there is cinerella, wich is even more powerful, yet hard to master.

For Audio-editing under linux, there is no "all-in-one" solution, but i found programs for everything i ever wanted to do.lmms a pretty need tool for everything midi-related, ardour and several others are pretty good for "real" music and mastering. Build-in VST-support in lmms is a nice feature, too.

 

[White Flame]

For those who are afraid of dealing with Linux:

You will NOT have to install Linux on the Pandora! Everything should already be pre-installed, with full driver support and all that.

You should be able to take it out of the box, power it up, and do your basic OS stuff like internet browsing. Games released for the pandora should be just a "download, install, click icon to run" or "insert SD card, browse to SD card, click icon" process to get them going, just like on Windows.

Many of your household electronics unbeknownst to you already run Linux, this is pretty much the same thing, given that it will have a simplified Pandora-specific interface (with the option to get to a full Linux desktop) iirc. The Pandora "experience" should have nothing at all in common with taking a non-Linux machine (like your PC) and figuring out how to get Linux going on it and dealing with drivers & crashes.

Like any device, bugs may surface, but if your idea for this is to play games on emulators and use it for Internet applications, then you should be able to use the device without even perceiving the Linux-ness of it.

(power users should already know that they can use it as a normal Linux machine if they want as well)

(and a disclaimer that I'm not involved with the project at all, and have no authority to say any of this beyond observation )

 

[AireTamStorm]

I'm also in the group that finds open a terminal in Linux just in general easier to use than Windows.

They're two different animals-

In Windows you get run around in circles trying to find an option buried in a GUI. You're expected to know where to find something. Every new version you're run in a new circle with alot more nonsensical hoops to jump through.

In Traditional Linux, you're presented with a completely blank terminal with no explanation of what to do, as you're expected to already know what you want to do, and how to translate that into something it understands.
However Linux also gives you that option of hunting around for options in a GUI, and several choices of GUI to do laps in. Particularly Ubuntu and Mepis keep you locked in the GUI at almost all times.

Often times, I just want something done. Rather than click and drag, I'd prefer to just tell the system to get mving.

 

[cb88]

Linux is a power user's dream ... I mean seriously

What is still lacking in Linux? Copy and paste is wonky at times and not consistent across programs... hardware detection could be better for less common systems ie older PCs (ISA busses etc...ALSA) and new PCs while not quite new PCs are ususaly detected perfectly (for me anyway)

I wasn't able to find a lightweight (should require next to nil resources unlike wicd and wifi-radar) Wifi config app on ArchLinux ... so had to use netcfg2 ... that needs to change

while you may not be able to use audio production software on Linux... I am pretty sure anyone that has tried Amorok 1.4 that they would find it is one of the best audio playback apps EVER!!!

 

[audovoice]

This is a silly discussion.
No one likes to learn new things and give up old programs they know and love.
If most people say Linux is easy to learn, that is fine and dandy. I just hope it is intuitive.

I am in some really basic IT classes right now because they are prerequisites to other classes I want to take. Being in the class you can tell some of the people have either never used windows ,or as is more likely never learned to use a computer at all. I suppose every one on this forum has a bit of technological literacy and that does transfer over into other things, but it has made me realize how much knowledge we take for granted as a given.

>Me in a computer lab filled with computers and fellow college students. Middle aged woman turns to me and says "do you know how to print."
Me "I think it should just print, it should go to the right printer" but she did not staring at word processor know how to go from there. It is a generational and economic divide I guess.

>Some time latter "do you know how to get to WordPad from here?" So I am like "it is in Accessories" (this is not that dumb of a question because unless you use paint or calculator there is no reason to look in that folder)
40year old woman "..." and kind of stares at her blank desk top.
"Hit start, All Programs, then Acc-"
"Where is Start?!"
"...at the bottom of your screen"
"here?"
"No!" Me frantically pointing by this time.
"over here?" pointing to the quick launch toolbar.
"No, its the green thing"

Anyway, so long as Linux does not make me feel like a 40 year old confused woman... or some thing like that... <_<

 

[Spirit]

And press Start to shutdown your computer, heh.

In my experience Linux is much easier to learn than Windows. If you have years of experience with Windows however, you must not try to project your thoughts of "how it should work" on it.

 

[Pleng]

SharpDevelop + Mono would do that for you. I don't suppose either of those will be ported but if for some unfathomable reason your desperately needed a .NET dev environment on your pocket-sized computer it would probably be easier to get some existing, current open-source software ported rather than attempt to port an obsolete, proprietary OS that is in most ways inferior to any Linux distro you might install.

There is NO dev environment on Linux that comes even close to Visual Studio when it comes to rapidly developing simple applications.

 

[lulzfish]

"Where is Start?!"
"...at the bottom of your screen"
"here?"
"No!" Me frantically pointing by this time.
"over here?" pointing to the quick launch toolbar.
"No, its the green thing"

Was she illiterate or something? It says, "Start" right on the button!
Well, I haven't used the window manager or desktop environment or whatever kinda GUI Pandora is shipping with, but it should be similar to the Windows shell. Except for the part where it decides to categorize all your stuff without asking you. Maybe I just want all my programs in their own folders, like "OpenOffice->writer" instead of "Office->OO writer". I hate guessing what category the menu thinks a program fits in. But that's what run dialogs are for.

Anyway, people who use Windows enough to be the kind of person who is buying a Pandora will get used to Linux GUIs quickly.

 

[Kyo]

Complain and you get all kinds of help, kindly ask and everybody ignores you

Nah, I just find it funny that I seem to be getting better support here than on the places I tried before. I run kubuntu. I did try researching/asking about various problems, many never got solved. Firefox and pidgin crashing I just took for granted because they did that under windows (though not as frequently).

Did you check the logs and your ram? Tried a different kernel-version? Just as a hint, this thread is already off-topic, so giving support on certain linux problems would go to far (no, that behaviour isn't typical at all, there is a problem with your computer, may it be hardware or software, so don't complain but search for help on the support-pages of your distribution).

Didn't check my ram, but different kernel versions didn't help.

What distro are you using and what kind of computer is it?
I hope I don't sound like a jerk here arguing against your stability problems, but my laptop runs Ubuntu 8.10 fine with only a few GUI setting adjustments to install the nvidia drivers and enable Compiz.

By all means, argue away if it helps. I'm running a kubuntu/ubuntu hybrid (I use gnome on kubuntu), 8.10. Don't get me started on nvidia. I have a geeforce 8800 in my asus m3n78-emh hdmi, it worked fine, 'till I got a second monitor. Dual monitors are impossible on that card, because one of the monitors will flicker like hell. Luckily, my father had a radeon laying around. And then there's scanners, oh scanners. I can't even get those which are supported to work... Oh, and installing! Don't get me started on that! Half the time it sends me to initramfs instead of the install, on several distros and computers. Ubuntu was the only thing I could get to work after a few tries.

what does "dmesg" say?

http://pastebin.com/m58e77430

 

[WizardStan]

For every "Linux sucks because even the install didn't work" there are thousands of "Linux is great, it installed so well", and one "Windows sucks because even the install didn't work". Numbers are aproximate. I'd bet there are actually more complaints about Windows simply because it has 20x the market share.

People have trouble installing Ubuntu. This is fact. Reasons always differ.
For the vast majority, however, it installs perfectly fine.
People have trouble installing Windows. This is fact. Reasons always differ.
For the vast majority, however, it installs perfectly fine.
Your personal experience either way doesn't automatically make one better than the other.

 

[hessiess]

Yeah, actually Richard Stallman wrote the first GPL, and now I think the FSF as a whole works on it.

As for multimedia editing, there is indeed almost no good programs for this in Linux, and that makes me very sad.

But since I do so little audio / video editing, it hasn't bothered me enough to go back to Windows.

Pearsonally i like Blenders editor, while the editor itself lacks effects, Blenders nodal compositor more than makes up for this as it can do prittymuch anything if you put your mind to it and be creative.

I hate using windows, it always feels encredably slow, even on a fresh install. its file system (NTFS) leavs a lot to be desired and it totally lacks any kind of electronic software distribution system, as well as being almost imposable to customise.

 

[Eniko]

QUOTE
Two efforts were started in 2008 to port ReactOS to different architectures, x64 and ARM. Both have seen considerable progress, with the ARM port now at the point where they have begun working on initialization of user mode components in the boot process.
On a vaguely on-topic note, am I the only one who would try out ReactOS on the Pandora for giggles?

 

[hobbyman II]

what I will miss is all those essential applications you can`t get under Linux

Norton antivirus
Ad Aware
Spyware Blocker
Disk defragmenter
AOL Online connection software
Bitdefender
Windows update
System Restore
Messenger
Paint
Minesweeper
etc

without those key programs to take up my time and what have you, running updates, rebooting, scanning etc, I don`t know what I will actually use my Pandora for, after all, they are the main applications for a windows PC, what can I do with a computer if I can`t run the key computer applications???

 

[Drack]

As this has turned into a "Windows vs Linux" debate... I'll throw my two cents in, as I love Linux, but have yet to completely migrate over because there are still a few things that Windows does better.

The main thing for me that Windows does better is Music Production. Show me a program on Linux that has the features of Propellerheads Reason or Cakewalk Sonar. Still nothing like it. I wholeheartedly believe this is not because Linux does not have the capability to handle such programs, and if they were released for Linux, they would most likely be more reliable than their Windows counterparts - but the fact remains that Cakewalk and Propellerheads (and all the other major players in the DAW market) have chosen to avoid Linux thus far. I don't quite know why - perhaps Linux still has a low enough market share that porting their software would be cost-prohibitive at this point - but then again, a lot of stuff is written for Win and Mac.

Secondly - I think someone who knows Linux well - I would definitely believe them when they say Linux is easier to use than Windows. But I don't think Linux is easier to learn than windows. When installing software, nothing's easier than click-by-click installing. I think Linux has done a good job with improving this - most of the software I install is through Synaptic Package Manager in Ubuntu.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I love Linux and believe it to be superior to Windows in many ways - I think the only thing Windows has on its side right now is marketshare. And I still think the profit-motive helps to create great software.

As a computer/music enthusiast, I have to throw my two cents in as well concerning what you said.

Windows and Mac absolutely have the edge when it comes to audio production. One of the reasons is that it takes a HUGE amount of effort and money to create a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, for other readers not in the know. It's basically an application for professional music creation). However, you should look at Ardour. It's a Linux DAW that uses JACK as its backend. It's VERY nice for what it is.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten a chance to mess around with it much, due to hardware compatibility. I've got a firewire sound interface (Echo Audiofire 4), and the drivers (ffado) are not anywhere close to stable yet, and there really isn't a good way to convert all alsa to JACK (Tried them all, alsa-jack, aoss+oss2jack, pulseaudio, you name it). Until the new JACK release is out and ffado is stable, I don't think I'll be able to do audio on Linux. I may just get a Mac so I can use Logic with it, or stick with my current windows + FL Studio setup.