Will you tell me if you think this looks cool?

[bringoutthegimp]

what the fuck happened there, for people to argue about something as simple as someones avatar which was at the most.......mildly offensive....it wasn't about racism or prejudice or shit like that...it was just an avatar. A lot of people are far too uptight on this board.

 

[Gorillazero]

Seriously this has to be the GAY'EST Fight EVEr recorded on a Public Forum. My god some of you baby's. Also, there are no girls on this forum, because who the fuc|< wants to hear them speak. I get enough of it at school. Especially black girls (which their are only a few).

See now that's not acceptable.

- Matt (another ramdom post is sited)

 

[Gorillazero]

The fact is that, they aren't uptight. Actually what they are, are nerds. In the true sense of the word. There's a fine line now-a-days with the meaning of Nerd and this post makes it wider now. Some ppl like to play Video Games to have fun, while other play Video Games cuz of an addiction / depression / being a loner. I can see that there's no way to get thru to these ppl even when he said sorry and he only wanted to know if the pic was cool. But instead the PC (politically? correct)ppl had their say and now I'm posting this half drunk and half asleep. This kinda Sh!t is why Pvt. Lynche had a movie done about herself sitting on her azz in a bed. She didnt do CRAP.

NssOne keep the original avatar it owned. No Mod said to take it off did they?

Enough posting from me good night.

-Matt (gp32 is the greatest retro gamin machine ever, hell ya)

 

[jot2b]

NssOne, I was fair to you man. I said "regardless your intentions, it comes across as mysogynistic to me as well". That means you didn't mean anything by it, but the pic is still wrong. No one's against you buddy! I just thought it was a thoughtless caption.

Rico, yes I was talking to you and several others as well. Yes, whoever said "images like this are why no girls visit this board" was mistaken. It's that few girls own gameparks. But I take issue with "context" in this situation. The picture has vague contextual meaning at best, and that doesn't make it right.

Some pothead buddies who I hung out with a couple months ago used "bitch" and "nigger" as if it didn't have any meaning. It's sad. I've said "bitch" on occassion, but I don't think it was right in any situation because the word is so associated with disrespect to women, it has a negative power. I try to not say it at all now.

Seriously this has to be the GAY'EST Fight EVEr

I think most homosexuals would be hurt by this, whether they tell you so or not. Sorry to repeat myself, but this attitude is as ignorant as those who used to call blacks "niggers". Probably it will not be tolerated fifty years from now, and if you have grown up by then, you won't say it anymore either.

Gorillazero, you equated people who feel strongly against sexism with nerds. And most everything else you said was pretty inarticulate; are you sure you were only half-drunk? I believe that political correctness is kind of extreme from media sources nowadays, but I can't stand when people use that as an excuse to allow carelessness, ignorance, or discrimination. Words have power, dude. Learn that, and use it wisely.

I'll gladly agree to disagree, but I'm not open-minded to tolerance to sexism, racism, or hate.

 

[Gorillazero]

On to the chopping blocks... Sup Jot? Got a job, cuz ya seemed to write awful alot of bull sh!t. But, hey.. we are all entitled to our own bs once in awhile, even if we dun think it is. Ignorance HA. Sexism, Racism, and any other -ism is how the world works, but when u use it too much or if u get ur azz kicked for it, then it's ur own fault. If everyone was PC, u can just start calling everyone by their Star Trek and beanie baby nicknames. Case Closed. Cuz no one will ever win in this genre of discussion. It's a total waste of all of our time.

-Matt (not a tree-hugger)

 

[Azure]

What was the pic? He edited his post.

 

[johnno15]

Hey Gorillazero instead of wasting all of our time preching your bullshit why dont you just stop writing shit and get on with something else <_<

 

[jot2b]

Yawn.

Matt the not a tree-hugger, you must have a tough job, because you haven't enough energy to form sentences that make sense. I'm being as nice as I can. At least Rico and NssOne have good points and add to the discussion.

Oh, and I noticed you already closed the case on this one, so I hope I don't get my "azz" kicked for replying, thug. Bye!

 

[NssOne]

To Azure: This is the pic. This is what started it all.

And how many times have I told you people, it was not at all meant to be my avatar? That is one thing that you should understand regardless of what you want to think of how bad it is, it was not meant to be my avatar. It was just a picture I did and I thought maybe other people would think it was cool and not freak out about it.

I did it for fun, I had no other intentions for it other than I think it would look cool. Maybe I would put it up on my website, but I really had no plans for the picture. I'm just a fan of the series and thought it looked cool with that text added to it. Nothing else.

It was really quite sad, I sometimes feel quite comfortable here. I would feel like I could bring up almost anything in discussion here like I was talking to some friends or atleast some kind of a small social group I may be apart of. Atleast not all of you who didn't like it freaked out and started assuming the worst about it. I've said some stupid harsh things around my friends also, but I can't remember any of them holding it against me. I guess because they're guilty of it also, and that they know it was just in fun and not directed to every applicable subject.

I've also shown the pic to a female friend of mine that I work with. I came into work one night and I was thinking about all the things that were said in this post. I kind of unloaded my frustration on her (verbally, not physically <_< ) because I was so upset. She's cool and listens to me when I have problems. She's known me for a good 3 years. She may be nice, but she's honest. She'll tell you if she thinks somethings wrong. But she emailed me after she saw the pic and told me that it did not look like it was geared towards geared. She said the pic kind of reminded of a '50 gangster type guy and that people are insane.

It sucks. It really feels like I can be open here without people tearing me down for something. I suppose I'm wrong.

 

[Fredrm]

I am sure you are a perfectly nice guy NSS, and any criticisms I might have of your image don't relate directly to you, who I have no info about. I personally enjoy the variety of opinion on this board (albeit all male), but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that's said, or think that everything people do is 'cool'. I personally find that image distinctly 'uncool'. It's not terrible or criminal, and as you point out we see more and worse every day on TV, but that doesn't make it ok for me, it just shows how fucked up most of the media is. And just like I have to live with your images, you have to live with conflicting opinions. Get over it.

Rico, I am sure you are right that the main reason women don't use this board is practical rather than ideological. They tend not to be into tech and don't have GP32's. But I would hate to think that GP32X was one of those boys clubs where sexism and mysogeny are taken as normal because then we certainly would be excluding any females who take up the joystick; and they do exist, I teach on a University tech course which is 90% female, and half of them are dedicated gamers.

 

[Klown]

Is this an inappropriate avatar? Let's see, a picture of a guy pointing at a gun at (presumably) a woman, and calling her a bitch (usually taken as an insult). Now why would anyone possibly be offended by that?

BECAUSE IT'S FUCKED UP MYSOGYNISTIC BULLSHIT, THAT'S WHY.

Gee, I wonder why there are no women on this forum?

Well lets see now. I just asked my sister if she though the image was offensive. She says no. I ask a few female friends on msn and they dont care. If you are that offended by such an image i suggest you get off the internet as its innapropriate for you.

 

[Rico]

Rico, I am sure you are right that the main reason women don't use this board is practical rather than ideological. They tend not to be into tech and don't have GP32's. But I would hate to think that GP32X was one of those boys clubs where sexism and mysogeny are taken as normal because then we certainly would be excluding any females who take up the joystick; and they do exist, I teach on a University tech course which is 90% female, and half of them are dedicated gamers.

I have to say, I wouldn't want gp32x to have any particular discrimination in it, either. The simple fact is that while I take the word to be a generic insult, others might associate it with its original meaning: to degrade women. Actually thinking back, I can think of a similar example: 'gay'. Many people (Gorrillazero included) tend to use this as an insult for some reason. I guess the same kind of thing could easily happen to other words. So in many ways I can understand what you mean.

NssOne, I feel that you could quite easily bring up your points on this forum; you shouldn't be flamed for your opinions in most circumstances. Kind of disappointing that such a simple image can incite such discussion, but in other ways, interesting. A testament to the broad range of subjects we discuss and the multitude of eventualities any thread can end up heading towards.

 

[generalnmx]

Some people are more sensitive than others. Trying to make the world "politically correct" is pointless - there will always be something that someone could find offensive. The phrase in question is not directly implying any person or gender, yet people have already taken it to mean an attack upon women. The phrase was judged upon intent, which is not a rational action - how can one quantify another's intent, when it is not apparent? Therefore, creating a "politically correct" atmosphere requires rationalizing irrational thought, which can only lead to an irrational outcome.

If the gun was pointed at a female dog, would that have calmed everyone? Perhaps not, as those who are especially sensitive would transform the scene into something which attacks them as a genre, even though it was not intended. We're also all assuming that NssOne is male. The key word here is "bitch", which can be deemed a "sensitive word" under the rules of "political correctness".

When we start to censor words, not considering the phrases, based on another's opinion, the censorship is given room to spread. Perhaps an individual uses the phrase "I had a smokin' good time!". Nothing seems wrong with it, yet anti-tobacco activists could complain it encourages smoking. Perhaps someone was trapped inside a closet during a fire in their building and had to be rescued by the Fire Department, and feels especially sensitive to any reference to fire and smoke. This may seem ludicrous, yet it happens all the time in the real world.

Words cannot hurt anyone. They are just words, without attachment, without targets, without intent. It is phrases, sentences, paragraphs, that have the possibility to hurt. Censor the phrases, not the words.

 

[jot2b]

NssOne, I'm sorry man! As the general said, and I think I said earlier this thread, your intentions were not wrong. And it does help to know that your honest girl friend said it wasn't offensive. Sorry, you didn't deserve the hardship, hope there are no hard feelings.

general, I sincerely love everything you just said, I would use it as an avatar if it fit.

But I will attempt to attach at least one exception, if a very petty one. To use an example, some old folks sometimes still call blacks "negros". Is their intention wrong? Certainly not. Should they be educated? I think so. The same I believe with using the word "gay" to tease something or someone. Even among friends. Gays have it hard enough in the world, to attach a negative meaning to one word that describes them.

God forbid being offended be such a bad thing. Some of my favorite movies, Scarface and Happiness as examples, are offensive. But their intentions are not vague, as was the pic. Several people thought it was inappropriate, myself included, until NssOne explained it himself. There is nothing wrong about American History X using the word "nigger" due to its context. But replace "bitch" with "nigger' in the pic. Would it have been offensive then, although it's not a phrase?

 

[NssOne]

Well, to help you people understand the mood I was in when I personally freaked out, was that it seemed I got harsh treatment for the pic. I understand where some saw it as inappropriate. And then those who saw it may have been aimed at women in some negative manner. But where I really got upset is when I felt people were making me out to be some kind of woman hating bastard for making that pic.

I feel saddened that - even though this is over the internet and it's hard to truly get to know somebody through just some kind of message boards - it really made some of you people feel that way towards me. Like I said before, I feel comfortable on these message boards as probably do most others. When people get comfortable, they like to bring up something that may be 'questionable'. Like they feel they're able to show another side to themselves. I, here, showed my darkly creative side. And people know when one shows their creative side, criticism and misinterpretations are hard to deal with. I had to deal with the misinterpretation of my pic as being mysogynistic.

And another thing, if I hadn't used the word 'bitch' in my pic, how would things have gone? What if I had used the word 'fucker', or 'asshole' or only said 'What now'? How then would people have felt about the pic? Maybe you guys would be tearing me apart instead for the use of such strong language. Or the use of a gun in the pic, saying that it depicts guns as being the only answer to a violent situation or something. I'm just saying, this could've gone many different ways instead of the way it did. I'm not even really upset that it's ended up this way because it did bring a good discussion to the table. I was just upset I felt persecuted for my pic and that some of the things that were said were unnecessary to get my attention about the interpretation of the pic the impact it may have.

And like GMX said, people are offended by some things and then they aren't by others. It's just humanity in its current state. Hell, if you really want to kow what gets me, is the use of such terms as 'German Savagery' when I watch old WWII clips. Even though I'm American with mixed European ancestry, I still feel strongly linked to my German heritage as it what gives me my family name and what my main interest is when it comes to trying to understand my family history. But that was a different time and we don't live in those times any more in America. I'm unsure of elsewhere, though I've hard the British like pick on the Germans still. But that's just what I've heard, I'm unsure otherwise.

Well, there was yet another post made by your's truly, DarkNss. (Or NssOne, if you want to call me by that also. I'm not picky.)

EDIT: I just read over some of the posts again want to point out to people that I was not upset over the conflicting viewpoints, but over the harsh responses from those with the conflicting viewpoints. If they had contributed more constructively to the discussion instead of just ranting about how my pic is a depiction of violence towards females, I would not have reacted the way I did.

 

[generalnmx]

First, I apologize to continue and use NssOne's thread to debate this topic.

But I will attempt to attach at least one exception, if a very petty one. To use an example, some old folks sometimes still call blacks "negros". Is their intention wrong? Certainly not. Should they be educated? I think so. The same I believe with using the word "gay" to tease something or someone. Even among friends. Gays have it hard enough in the world, to attach a negative meaning to one word that describes them.

Ideologically, I disagree. The only reason I do not go right up to an african-american and call them a "negro" is because I am fairly sure they would not like that. It has nothing to do with what "connotations" the word contains. I stand firm behind my principles - a word is just a word, no strings attached without intent. No "re-education" is required, only advice.

In my opinion, using a word in a different way cannot manifest a new bias inside a person. If using a word creates a negative attitude inside a person, then that bias must have already existed in some form or another. This is another example of sensititivity, yet in the opposite respect. People hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe. It would be irrational to base one's opinion solely on the connotations of a word.

In situations where I may use the word "gay" next to someone especially sensitive to its connotations, and they find offense, I can simply apologize and move on. I actually find it easier to right out offend sensitive people then try my best to avoid it, as they is a good chance I may find some unexpected area of offense. If the sensitive person does not accept the apology, then there was an even better chance they would have reacted negatively no matter what I did.

One may point out a possible personal bias since I choose to not use the word "negro" openly, yet allow myself to use the word "gay". Well, as a rule, I tend to avoid using any nouns with negative connotations in public, since they can only single people out, and the intent is quite difficult to establish. The word "gay" when used in a sentence like "SUVs are gay" is an adjective, not a noun. One should be able to easily see that the sentence is refering to SUVs, unrelated to the homosexual population.

I would also like to make note that we are conversing in the Internet. The Internet is the forum of the world - not the United States, not the English-speaking countries, not even Poland. With the anonimity of the Internet, I could be of any nationality, typing these words in any country, with any type of intent. A large number of assumptions must be made about me to draw any intent out of my simple dialog - you don't even know my real name. Even if I told you, I could very well be lying. Is it really fair to judge someone based on simple assumptions?

 

[Jamal]

One may point out a possible personal bias since I choose to not use the word "negro" openly, yet allow myself to use the word "gay". Well, as a rule, I tend to avoid using any nouns with negative connotations in public, since they can only single people out, and the intent is quite difficult to establish. The word "gay" when used in a sentence like "SUVs are gay" is an adjective, not a noun. One should be able to easily see that the sentence is refering to SUVs, unrelated to the homosexual population.

I don't think it's a personal bias, because many people say "gay" in a negative context, and almost no one ever says "negro". The reason is simple: one has, for whatever reason, become acceptable; the other has not. I've pondered over it awhile, and believe "adjectives" and "nouns" have nothing to do with this subject as this does not matter to anyone.

Of course no one thinks saying "SUVs are gay" means you are making a reference to homosexuals. But I am arguing it's still insensitive and ignorant. If SUVs are "unrelated to the homosexual population", why on earth would someone say "SUVs are gay", and perpetuate the negative view that gay is equal to wrong? Words also have a hypnotic effect, and people do on some conscious level accept these statements as true. It's one reason homophobia is a reality. I'm a thinking, rational human being, but I'll confess to being at least a little homophobic, because words have that power.

Approaching something this sensitive ideologically is unfair because ideologically human beings would never be offended by anything. They are, and it's not often or always their own problem. Apologizing is the best solution when you offend somebody when you shouldn't have. But has the damage not still been done?

I realize I'm approaching this in a kind of Machiavellian "ends justifies the means" way, but that's a proactive stance. Stop using the words "gay" and "bitch" in a degrading context and you will be destroying dicrimination in yourself and others.

Yes, the internet is the forum of the world and everything, but I don't see how that's relevant. We're all speaking the same language here, literally and from a general cultural background. It's a topic for another evening, but I totally agree with your sentiments here.

Is it really fair to judge someone based on simple assumptions?

No, but who here judged anyone based on simple assumptions? After NssOne (sorry sorry, but I don't know how else to say this!) confessed he had no intention of being mysogynistic, I said the pic still came across as mysogynistic to me. It was a communication problem. I still believe the pic shouldn't be posted anywhere, and NssOne said he never intended to anyway.

It is fair to judge art based on what it is, and not what the artist intended. Artists will not always be around to defend their work, so it is impossible to have it any other way.

EDIT: Ack, I used a username from my other forum. Sorry, this is jot2b.

 

[jegHegy]

tl;dr

and i didn't see the pic either, but as i've read the comments describing the pic, i can see it's inappropriate ON THIS BOARD. i wouldn't have found it offensive at all, and i wouldn't have thought that NssOne was a sexist monster either. it's just that this site wants to be friendly.

my point of view.

 

[Nelligan]

I agree with most of what you said, jot2b. Especialy this:

Words also have a hypnotic effect, and people do on some conscious level accept these statements as true.

I think this is at the root of the problem. Words are just words are just sound are just air blowing through vocal cords. This is a fact. But with this air you can often make people do anything. But we have the choice to hear and do what we want. This is also a fact. But in real life we are not masters of ourselves. Meaning we are not conscious of so we don't have control of everything that happens inside of us.

So the way I see it is this: We are free but not omniscient, so we sometimes forfeit our freedom without knowing it.

It is easier to communicate without thinking of all this. Also, fleeting fashions brings words that most people say so those words come to mind easier than the appropriate ones. The gay adjective in "SUVs are gay" was pretty much absent a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure bitch and nigger in their modern connotations are new too. And it is easier to say this man is an alcoolic that this man has an alcool problem. Some people have no problem with the former but others take the phrase literaly and sum up what they are to an alcoolic wich leads them to more suffering.

My opinion is this: do what you want(or course), but if minimizing ambiguity and negative impact on others is important to you than be transparent and say the things as they are. This is much harder and less fun. ex: What now, you evil unded you at whom I'm pointing my gun at? but I think in most situations, it pays off.

Think of Kenshin, if you know of him(he's real ok?). I think his attitude pays off greatly.


N.B. If you find this post boring then sorry. I did it for myself because the thread is more interesting than my job .

 

[Rico]

it is easier to say this man is an alcoholic that this man has an alcohol problem. Some people have no problem with the former but others take the phrase literaly and sum up what they are to an alcoholic which leads them to more suffering.

Welcome to real life 'newspeak'. Similarly, people often say 'nuke' because it's easy to say 'Bush is gonna go around nuking the Middle East', but isn't 'nuclear missile' a more serious version? Saying 'nuke' strips out the full idea of the damage these things can do. (Just an example)