Will This Umid Kill Pandora

[streak]

@streak there is no wifi in Haiku because there is no wifi support at all yet...

What should work on the EEE with Haiku Sound with OSS installed and ethernet...

That's what i said 2 post before. Theres no Wifi stack and OSS works BUT with problems like sound dissappears suddently or other surprises like very bad quality of sound. Graphic card is running but in damn VESA compatible mode [ which is very slow ]. I know that coz i was installing haiku on my eee recently.

btw. i think ill give AROS a shot

 

[benjiro]

+512 MB RAM

with windows (XP?) that's probably less performant than 256MB with properly configured linux


Memory:

Whats limiting you from installing a proper configured linux on it, last time i check Linux is not ARM exclusive I wonder what the OS is i'm typing this on.

And lets not dish Windows to much. A proper configured XP's memory requirements be dropped a lot also.

Lets try a comparison ( as unbiased as possible. Please note: I have canceled my order for the Pandora a week or 2 ago, what may show some negative bias toword the Pandora. But this is the first time that the M1 got my attention, so i'm also not very familiar with the device ). So to sum it up:

M1 vs Pandora:

Screen size: 4.8" screen vs 4.3" screen.
Conclusion: M1 Advantage. 0.5" more screen space.

Screen resolution: 800*480 or 1024x600 vs 800*480.
Conclusion: Both the same resolution at 800*480, Advantage for the M1 with the 1024*600

Cpu: 1.1Ghz or 1.33Ghz Atom vs 600Mhz Cortex A8.
Conclusion: The comparison it here harder. From a few tests, a Atom at 600Mhz, has about the same speed, as a Cortex A8. So, CPU speed the M1 has a win. Power usage, is a other mater, and there the Cortex A8 has a win.

Memory: 512MB or 1GB DDR2 vs 256MB DDR1.
Conclusion: Advantage M1 in size, and memory bandwidth speed. Possible win for Pandora with lower power usage for the SoC design.

Side note: Intel is also moving to a SoC design for the next Atom ( end off the year ), with a move to 32nm design.

Camera: 1.3 M Cmos vs none.
Conclusion: Even a crappy 1.3M vs none is a win

Os: WindowsXP/Vista/Linux vs Linux
Conclusion: Possibility to gain those pesky Windows user, aka, a win for the M1.

SD: 1 SD vs 2 SD
Conclusion: Win for the Pandora, with 2 SD slots.

Storage: 8/16/32GB SSD vs 512MB
Conclusion: Win for the M1.

Note: Read seems to be 50MB/s, Write 32MB/s. In other words, the internal storage seems to be a lot faster then the Pandora's 6MB/s.

Battery: 2400mAh vs 4000mAH
Conclusion: Pandora win.

Size: 158x94x18.6 vs 140x83x27mm
Conclusion: A mixed batch. The Pandora wins by 11mm in height, and 18mms in width, but loses by 8mm in depth.

Weight: 315g vs 320g ( if i remember ED's comment correctly ).
Conclusion: Both are to close to indicated any major weight problem. So, lets say, a tie.

Controls Keyboard: 58 button QWERTY vs 43 button QWERTY and numeric keypad.
Conclusion: This it to much a mater off taste as we have seen with the numerous heated discussions.

This is a quote from a independent review off the M1: "The unit is designed to be ‘thumbed’ while being held in two hands and in that mode, its one of the most comfortable thumb-style keyboards I can remember".

The design of both is more or less a war between a calculator/cell phone keys vs laptop keys. As we can see in the video's, there seem to be a different type off feedback. The M1's feedback is more or less, in line with a PC, where as the Pandora, is more or less in line with a cell phone. So, its pure taste.

Gaming controls: none vs Dual analog nubs + Gamepad controls + shoulder buttons
Conclusion: Pandora's win. And this will most likely interest console players.

External Connections: Wifi / BT2 vs Wifi / BT2.
Conclusion: Both are a tie.

External Data Communication: HSDPA, 3G vs None.
Conclusion: M1 wins.

Digital TV Optional: As this is a external device for the M1, its categories as non in my eyes, vs non on the Pandora.
Conclusion: Both lose.

USB connection: Mini USB2 vs Full USB2
Conclusion: Pandora wins.

Heat / Noise: Both run fanless.
Conclusion: Both win.

Price: 480 to 560$ vs $339
Conclusion: Pandora wins.


Some general comments.

Gaming:

Its more a difference in platform choice. Pandora users will be more or less be Console gamers, as its main controllers are focused on this.

Yes, Q1,Q2,Q3 can be played on the gamepad, but lets be realistic, anything with a 3d look, and no auto locking, or assistants like most console fps, aka, pc fps games are going to be more trouble then they are worth.

Atom / x86 devices are going to be focused on PC gaming, and the Pandora will be focused on console games.

The jitter people have notices seems odd. Possible data reading or some other HD activity or just youtube video encoding?

Battery life?

From the preview i saw, it states 3h with Wifi active. Battery-save mode (CPU at 800Mhz) and a lower screen brightness is going to allow up to 4hrs with Wifi on. And people, before your running with the 10h for the Pandora, lets first see some tests with Wifi. Don't think there even have been any tests with wifi + battery life for the Pandora ( just like a lot off promised tests, or video's after the initial one, that we never saw ).

Anyway, for a MID, the M1 looks like a nice step in the right direction. The question is more, what holds the future. We know that the Pandora's specs are fixed. But, UMID is not limited by this, and can release newer versions based on the new Lincroft architecture.

And then there is also the Snapdragon ( with the future dual core version @ 45nm ). Fun times ahead.

Update:

Emulator games / Mario / Etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2gs0rAsHDc...feature=channel

Looks very playable to me with the keyboard...

1080p movie playtest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTe_wtWu3XQ...re=channel_page

 

[danielliu88888]

errr.... how hot does that thing get? sweaty palms are not fun.

 

[lulzfish]

errr.... how hot does that thing get? sweaty palms are not fun.

all Atom technologies remain safely operational up to 4000 degrees Kelvin. Rest assured that there is absolutely no risk of a dangerous equipment malfunction prior to your UMPC's candescence.

 

[Kekerot]

From what I've read this poulsbo chipset doesn't get hot and doesn't require fans like the older atoms do so it won't burn your hands. If the M1 could get at least 4 hours it would be a pretty good little x86 computer but if you want game controls built in the pandora is better. People really seem to hate x86 and windows around here lol :unsure:

I won't consider intel atom until moorestown is released.

 

[lulzfish]

From what I've read this poulsbo chipset doesn't get hot and doesn't require fans like the older atoms do so it won't burn your hands. If the M1 could get at least 4 hours it would be a pretty good little x86 computer but if you want game controls built in the pandora is better. People really seem to hate x86 and windows around here lol :unsure:

I won't consider intel atom until moorestown is released.

That thing looks impractical. Where would you even store it? It's not shaped like the inside of ANY of my pockets..

 

[joa]

competition or not, that device does seem pretty cool.

but i'll live an die a pandora man

 

[Junebug7556]

Hi Benjiro, thanks for the very detailed comparison of the M1 and Pandora. Very useful.

I think I will go for the M1 in the future as I would like to play Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Planescape Torment, and loads of other adventures - which are all Windows based. Some DOS also.

Would you - or any of you guys - know what would happen if I play a game of resolution 800x600 on a 800x480 screen? Is it squashed on the y axis - or does the screen scroll? Age of Empires 2 : Age of Kings only supports 800x600, how would this work on 800x480? Selecting units with the stylus would be great though.

 

[lulzfish]

Hi Benjiro, thanks for the very detailed comparison of the M1 and Pandora. Very useful.

I think I will go for the M1 in the future as I would like to play Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Planescape Torment, and loads of other adventures - which are all Windows based. Some DOS also.

Would you - or any of you guys - know what would happen if I play a game of resolution 800x600 on a 800x480 screen? Is it squashed on the y axis - or does the screen scroll? Age of Empires 2 : Age of Kings only supports 800x600, how would this work on 800x480? Selecting units with the stylus would be great though.

It probably won't work. LCDs don't usually try to go past the default resolution, so you'll probably be stuck at 640 by 480 with either stretching or letterboxing.

 

[Junebug7556]

Hi Benjiro, thanks for the very detailed comparison of the M1 and Pandora. Very useful.

I think I will go for the M1 in the future as I would like to play Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Planescape Torment, and loads of other adventures - which are all Windows based. Some DOS also.

Would you - or any of you guys - know what would happen if I play a game of resolution 800x600 on a 800x480 screen? Is it squashed on the y axis - or does the screen scroll? Age of Empires 2 : Age of Kings only supports 800x600, how would this work on 800x480? Selecting units with the stylus would be great though.

It probably won't work. LCDs don't usually try to go past the default resolution, so you'll probably be stuck at 640 by 480 with either stretching or letterboxing.


Thanks lulzfish - Fingers crossed, if the resolution can be set on the M1 at 1024x600, then 800x600 should be playable in letterbox/streched.

 

[lulzfish]

On my laptop, there's a BIO setting to switch between "centered, unstretched" and "stretched with absolutely no regard for aspect ratio"

I don't know if they actually do anything.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

one thing for sure: the pandora has to come out fast and feed these people hungry for small laptops!

 

[Junebug7556]

one thing for sure: the pandora has to come out fast and feed these people hungry for small laptops!

Amen to that...

 

[femngi]

I think I will go for the M1 in the future as I would like to play Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Planescape Torment, and loads of other adventures - which are all Windows based. Some DOS also.

Well if that's what you really want then you should be able to at least get Fallout working on Dosbox. In fact doesn't Dosbox work with some Win 95 games? Anyway the point here is that the Pandora isn't being designed with Windows games in mind, although I know I could live with that if you REALLY feel the need to play your Interplay RPGs on the move then just get a UMPC or something instead. Although I predict a whole raft of troubles getting them to work.
Who knows? Maybe one of them will play Crysis for you.

 

[sdedalus83]

That thing looks impractical. Where would you even store it? It's not shaped like the inside of ANY of my pockets..

How about your car, in the same spot where a radio would normally slot in?

 

[Alpha2]

I dont think there's any specific hate for x86 around here, it;s just that it has a reputation for being crap for portable use and people want the Pandora to succedd in the market it;s being developed for, nample portable gameing and computing.

 

[lingenfr]

It also appears the the UMID M1 has no touchscreen. Kind of an important thing to overlook.

 

[hch]

It also appears the the UMID M1 has no touchscreen. Kind of an important thing to overlook.

it does have touch screen - but no other pointing device.

 

[benjiro]

It also appears the the UMID M1 has no touchscreen. Kind of an important thing to overlook.

No touchscreen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfIzSmC6s4...feature=channel

A Korean test ( same user as the original posts video, and the gameplay video's with emulator gaming ).

At 5:40, o look, its a pen he's pulling out off the M1. Whats he going to do with it? My god, he's touching the screen with it Must be some fetish? The pervert... O wait, the screen seems to get existed by this, and things happen on it. *lol*

Its rather clear that it has a touch screen.

O and i was wrong about the digital TV. Its build in. The reference optional is in most devices some external device, and i took it the wrong way. You can see in the above video pulling out a antena ( looks kinda flimsy ), and playing some tv.


On the mater off the Q3 being choppy, it looks like the blame is the GPU ( GMA500 ) driver. Most off the UMPC's / MID's are equipped with drivers that do not have hardware acceleration. Some kind off strange joke from Intel?

Or wonder if its maybe tied in to the fact that the GMA500 is using the SGX535, and the Pandora's SGX530 drivers also only got released recently? Aka, SGX only releasing the specs for writing a driver recently? In other words, its probably playing all those games purely on the cpu in software rendering. Intel is rather known for there problem with adding hardware support for there gpu's.

There is talk about a custom driver that Dell got ( payed for it? ) recently, that enable the hardware support. Anyway...

 

[hch]

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
SD: 1 SD vs 2 SD
Conclusion: Win for the Pandora, with 2 SD slots.
[/quote]

m1 has only microsd

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
Storage: 8/16/32GB SSD vs 512MB
Conclusion: Win for the M1.
[\quote]
afaik nothing more than 8Gb is confirmed

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
Battery: 2400mAh vs 4000mAH
Conclusion: Pandora win.
[\quote]
but the m1 has 7.4V so it's 17WH vs. 14.8WH. still a clear win for pandora considering the power consumption.

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
External Data Communication: HSDPA, 3G vs None.
Conclusion: M1 wins.
[\quote]

only if you live in south korea try googling for umid m1 hsdpa mod and be horrified

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
Digital TV Optional: As this is a external device for the M1, its categories as non in my eyes, vs non on the Pandora.
Conclusion: Both lose.
[\quote]
the external thingie is a usual usb video card - cosurgi checked that this will work on pandora, too.

also, pandora has at least s-video. as most video projectors support this i consider it a clear win for pandora. actually, this is the killer for me - the one reason i won't get a m1.

[quote name='Benjiro' date='Mar 29 2009, 12:28 AM' post='714041']
Heat / Noise: Both run fanless.
Conclusion: Both win.
[/quote]

u sure? i have been looking for this info countless times and never found it. can you quote a source?

also, look at the umids graphics performance on benchmarks. yes, it has essentially the same GPU architecture but as far as i understood the drivers are not there (yet?).

edit: oh, and i forgot mono vs. stereo speakers.